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Archive of: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Archive desc: The Internet home for the Heinlein Forum
Archived by: webnews@sff.net
Archive date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:52:38
============================================================
Article: 24253
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:13:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Reboot the Election
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Thoughts:
"Those who dance appear insane to those who cannot hear the music."
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:05:29 -0800, "Lorrita Morgan"
<lorrita_m@hotmail.com> wrote:
>This is going to be an interesting four years. If they do succeed in
>getting a "revote" can we write in Franz Kafka? (someone else must have
>read that story that I can't find the bib data for.)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24254
From: Filksinger
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:19:39 -0800
Subject: Re: Reboot the Election
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Ed Johnson wrote:
>
> Thoughts:
>
> "Those who dance appear insane to those who cannot hear the music."
From another filker's sig: "What do you do when others around you can't
hear the music in your head." Seems like the two could be put together
for an interesting effect.:)
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24255
From: JT
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 19:24:00 -0500
Subject: Re: If it's December, it must be time to renew the HF.... ;)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 11:34:04 -0500, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
>Thanks to those who have pledged so far. There is plenty of room for
>more donations. I will likely close the "window for donations" at
>something like 1/3.
>
For all that have pledged, thank you, I've gotten the checks and I
deposited them today.
If you were intending to pledge but have not, please do, as so far we
have only covered $30 of the $100. I have a benefactor that is
willing to help me split what's left, but I'd still rather that those
of us that can give a bit, do.
Since this is a trend (last year I had my first complete no-give after
pledging, and, no, it wasn't any of you who've pledged at other times)
I think next year I will switch to a mail&news account. That is only
$40 and would still appropriately cover the HF's reduced load on the
SFF Net server. We'd lose web space, which I know I can cover on what
my personal domain has.
Anyway, Happy New Year to everyone. I doubt I'll even make it to
midnight, but heck, it's already 2005 somewhere already anyway. ;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24256
From: Filksinger
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 19:15:35 -0800
Subject: Longest Email Address Possible
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
filksinger@abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijk.com
Yes, it works, if you get it all on one line. No, there is no reasonable
excuse for this monstrosity. That seems to be their biggest selling
point. You can get your own free address at
www.abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijk.com.
No, I don't know why you would. But you can.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24257
From: JT
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 22:47:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Longest Email Address Possible
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 19:15:35 -0800, Filksinger
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>No, I don't know why you would. But you can.
Why wouldn't you make up a sentence that contains the same number of
characters and register that? Sheesh. I guess whatever they want to
do with their domain fee is their right.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 24258
Article no longer available
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24259
From: Filksinger
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 15:02:08 -0800
Subject: Re: Longest Email Address Possible
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 19:15:35 -0800, Filksinger
> <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>
>
>>No, I don't know why you would. But you can.
>
>
> Why wouldn't you make up a sentence that contains the same number of
> characters and register that? Sheesh. I guess whatever they want to
> do with their domain fee is their right.
I think it was so that they could claim the longest alphabetical domain
possible.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24260
From: William Keaton"
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:03:12 -0500
Subject: Kelly Freas
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
For those of you who know who Kelly Freas is, I was saddened to hear that he
passed on this past Sunday.
For those of you who don't know who Kelly Freas is, go to your book shelf
and start pulling down some of your favorite SF books. Look at the cover
art, then look in the corner or on the inside of the book. Kelly Freas did
more covers than you can possibly imagine. He was a talented and prolific
artitst, and a heck of a guy.
No, I didn't know him, just met him and talked to him at a couple of
Worldcons.
And I was surprised to see that he was a defining artist of the early Mad
magazine, and was responsible for that magazine's defining character Alfred
E. Neumann.
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24261
From: JT
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 21:01:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Kelly Freas
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:03:12 -0500, "William Keaton"
<wjake@verizon.net> wrote:
>And I was surprised to see that he was a defining artist of the early Mad
>magazine, and was responsible for that magazine's defining character Alfred
>E. Neumann.
>
Yeah, that surprised me too, why the name was familiar, I guess. Also
losing Will Eisner today is a big deal. That first generation of
artists is just about gone, now.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24262
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 22:53:26 -0500
Subject: Re: If it's December, it must be time to renew the HF.... ;)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT: Frankly, I'm shocked by the non-response to your request to
"pay the light bill". I guess that all of our libertarian brothers
and sisters are waiting for someone else to provide them with a free
lunch. Maybe the spirit of Robert Heinlein has died out here.
Rather than change the service that you are paying for (I thought
that we, all of us cobbers were paying for) you might consider just
taking Heinlein's name off of this site. What would that entail?
Ed J (one of sff.net's HF Founding Fathers)
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 19:24:00 -0500, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 11:34:04 -0500, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
>
>>Thanks to those who have pledged so far. There is plenty of room for
>>more donations. I will likely close the "window for donations" at
>>something like 1/3.
>>
>For all that have pledged, thank you, I've gotten the checks and I
>deposited them today.
>
>If you were intending to pledge but have not, please do, as so far we
>have only covered $30 of the $100. I have a benefactor that is
>willing to help me split what's left, but I'd still rather that those
>of us that can give a bit, do.
>
>Since this is a trend (last year I had my first complete no-give after
>pledging, and, no, it wasn't any of you who've pledged at other times)
>I think next year I will switch to a mail&news account. That is only
>$40 and would still appropriately cover the HF's reduced load on the
>SFF Net server. We'd lose web space, which I know I can cover on what
>my personal domain has.
>
>Anyway, Happy New Year to everyone. I doubt I'll even make it to
>midnight, but heck, it's already 2005 somewhere already anyway. ;)
>
>JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24263
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 22:56:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Kelly Freas
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT: It was sad to hear of the passing of Kelly Freas on the news.
Chesley Bonestell (1888-1986) was also one of my favorite SF
artists.
Ed J
On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 21:01:45 -0500, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:03:12 -0500, "William Keaton"
><wjake@verizon.net> wrote:
>>And I was surprised to see that he was a defining artist of the early Mad
>>magazine, and was responsible for that magazine's defining character Alfred
>>E. Neumann.
>>
>Yeah, that surprised me too, why the name was familiar, I guess. Also
>losing Will Eisner today is a big deal. That first generation of
>artists is just about gone, now.
>
>
>JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24264
From: William Keaton"
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 01:05:01 -0500
Subject: Re: If it's December, it must be time to renew the HF.... ;)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
news:ij1st01ta74ckmlrgvdpg1q2a96dpodai7@4ax.com...
> JT: Frankly, I'm shocked by the non-response to your request to
> "pay the light bill". I guess that all of our libertarian brothers
> and sisters are waiting for someone else to provide them with a free
> lunch. Maybe the spirit of Robert Heinlein has died out here.
> Rather than change the service that you are paying for (I thought
> that we, all of us cobbers were paying for) you might consider just
> taking Heinlein's name off of this site. What would that entail?
I know what it would result in: A coup. <g>
We've always been the Heinlein Forum. I don't see any reason to change that,
and changing the name is going to change the fact that we're having a little
trouble with the annual pledge drive. And we are paying for it, but we can't
all send in a bunch of little checks to sff.net so JT organizes things. He's
good at that.<g>
I think we know that this has been an interesting year for some of our
members, moving, job changes, etc. Phases, folks, we all go through them.
The HF goes on, through, hmmm, 5 different hosts,versions. Or is it 6? JT,
what's the official count?
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24265
From: Filksinger
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 22:27:41 -0800
Subject: Maybe They've Found Their Issue
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
OK, the Republicans may have found an issue that could get them a new
election. Frankly, I don't think so, but they are investigating, and may
file a lawsuit demanding a new election on this basis.
The issue is that there are some polling places where votes were counted
and there is no record of who did the voting. This is a common event in
elections that draw a large turnout, and not unexpected. However, with
only a very tiny fraction of a percent of votes separating the winner
and the loser, it becomes significant. The number of votes found that
aren't accounted for is about 0.001% of the votes in the election.
One way this could happen is somebody comes in, verifies that they are
registered, and fills in a ballot, but their name isn't marked off. Most
of these ballots, however, are almost certainly "provisional" ballots.
Somebody comes in, says, "I'm a registered voter", but they can't find
his name on the list. Maybe the list is incomplete, maybe the voter is
at the wrong poll, maybe he isn't registered, maybe he's trying to
cheat. The voter is given a provisional ballot, that he fills out and
puts in an envelope with his name on the outside, so he can be verified.
80% of these ballots end up being counted.
Sometimes, however, empty envelopes are found afterwards, because
somebody put the ballot into the box instead of the envelope. Other
times, somebody makes a mistake and runs these ballots instead of having
them verified.
So, maybe they will decide to push for a new election on this basis.
However, I really doubt it, by itself. However, they are also
investigating vote fraud. Since there were bound to be some people who
decided to vote using their recently deceased uncle's name, etc., they
will find some fraud. So, once they are done totaling up the difference,
they may decide to sue.
I don't expect they will get a new election. I don't know if anybody
cares anymore. I don't.:) But, just in case they get their new election,
I'd hate to have people asking me, "Why? I thought this was settled
months ago!"
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24266
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (John Tilden)
Date: 7 Jan 2005 15:39:33 GMT
Subject: Re: If it's December, it must be time to renew the HF.... ;)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
WJaKe,
As far as direct lineage of the HF, It went through 3 or 4 phases on Prodigy,
being as small as designated subject lines and as large as a dedicated Topic
(I can't even remember what they were actually called anymore!). We had
"parallel" groups variously on GEnie, AOL, and Delphi at the same time as
Prodigy. I don't think we ever hit CompuServe but I never had an account
there so I don't know for sure.
But, we came to SFF Net first on 1/9/1997 and have been here continuously
ever since.
Everyone--
Now, a lot has happened with Internet services since then. For about $40
yearly we could get a domain and put up our own php bulletin board and easily
host the discussions we've been having here. Likely we would significantly
increase traffic.
Switching to a mail/news account here still pays for the NNTP access, we
would lose web page hosting which is definitely the least-used service of
the HF, and possibly not worth the $60 portion we pay for it, especially
when (see above) we could easily host a domain for that money elsewhere.
However, we're definitely paid with SFF Net through early December 2005,
so there's no rush to figure this out right away.
I think that SFF Net does a great job of hosting genre discussion and keeping
spam away from their boards, but because they successfully limit searching
you don't get large amounts of eyeballs checking us out. Good or Bad? Your
decision.
Another option would be to move to the Heinlein Society boards and post
there, but then we would be subject to THS rules/opinions on off-topicness,
etc. THS didn't exist in 1997, and many of the things that the HF "does"
fit with THS also. A dedicated endowment under THS in the name of the Forum
might be one way to co-exist, just a possibility, but that would require
definite contributions to set up an endowment--but Heinlein's Centennial
is coming up and there's no time like the present.
I owe the Heinlein Forum a lot, and I'm willing to keep putting in some
work towards it always, but if people feel strongly about preserving it
as an entity it just might be time to be a little more serious about it--meaning
person(s) might want to spend some time organizing topics, questions to
stimulate discussion, personal get-togethers, etc.
It's definitely not a money issue right now. The fees are covered.
I guess that's all what has been floating about in my head for some time
now.
your Historian,
JusTin
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24267
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 12:01:57 -0500
Subject: Re: If it's December, it must be time to renew the HF.... ;)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT: I for one, have deeply appreciated all that you have done over
the years for the Heinlein Forum, here and on the old Plodigy: as
our historian and as someone not afraid to take a leadership role in
getting this thing organized. I am certain that I am not alone is
this appreciation.
I have heard elsewhere that even five dollars is a strain on the
budget for some people this year. That is about ten cents per week
to support our open forum in it's current incarnation, here on
sff.net.
I would like to join with Jake Keaton in covering the remainder
of this years bill. I like the Heinlein Forum's independence and
don't think that we should shackle ourselves with anyone else's
guidelines. Even an organization as benevolent as THS.
Ed J
On 7 Jan 2005 15:39:33 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (John Tilden) wrote:
>WJaKe,
>As far as direct lineage of the HF, It went through 3 or 4 phases on Prodigy,
>being as small as designated subject lines and as large as a dedicated Topic
>(I can't even remember what they were actually called anymore!). We had
>"parallel" groups variously on GEnie, AOL, and Delphi at the same time as
>Prodigy. I don't think we ever hit CompuServe but I never had an account
>there so I don't know for sure.
>
>But, we came to SFF Net first on 1/9/1997 and have been here continuously
>ever since.
>
>Everyone--
>Now, a lot has happened with Internet services since then. For about $40
>yearly we could get a domain and put up our own php bulletin board and easily
>host the discussions we've been having here. Likely we would significantly
>increase traffic.
>
>Switching to a mail/news account here still pays for the NNTP access, we
>would lose web page hosting which is definitely the least-used service of
>the HF, and possibly not worth the $60 portion we pay for it, especially
>when (see above) we could easily host a domain for that money elsewhere.
>
>However, we're definitely paid with SFF Net through early December 2005,
>so there's no rush to figure this out right away.
>
>I think that SFF Net does a great job of hosting genre discussion and keeping
>spam away from their boards, but because they successfully limit searching
>you don't get large amounts of eyeballs checking us out. Good or Bad? Your
>decision.
>
>Another option would be to move to the Heinlein Society boards and post
>there, but then we would be subject to THS rules/opinions on off-topicness,
>etc. THS didn't exist in 1997, and many of the things that the HF "does"
>fit with THS also. A dedicated endowment under THS in the name of the Forum
>might be one way to co-exist, just a possibility, but that would require
>definite contributions to set up an endowment--but Heinlein's Centennial
>is coming up and there's no time like the present.
>
>I owe the Heinlein Forum a lot, and I'm willing to keep putting in some
>work towards it always, but if people feel strongly about preserving it
>as an entity it just might be time to be a little more serious about it--meaning
>person(s) might want to spend some time organizing topics, questions to
>stimulate discussion, personal get-togethers, etc.
>
>It's definitely not a money issue right now. The fees are covered.
>
>I guess that's all what has been floating about in my head for some time
>now.
>
>your Historian,
>JusTin
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24268
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:28:09 -0800
Subject: Re: If it's December, it must be time to renew the HF.... ;)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I didn't have any idea moving this forum to THS message boards was even
a consideration. We'll give you a nest, of course, if you need one in a
pinch, or otherwise; and anyone is free to use it otherwise -- it's not
our intention that they be private boards in any sense: that's not what
they are there for -- no passwords, no secret signs, no oaths of
obligation. About the only time I, oh behalf of the board, ask Deb to
yank a post over there (or would do it myself in her absence or
inability) is when a nutcase shows up and posts something totally
off-kilter or offensive -- although true spam (there's one close over
there now that I just noticed, and two attempts to sell collector's
books privately, but I think I'll leave them be for the time) might
provoke the same response, about what your sysops here will remove.
Regards,
David
In article <s9ftt0p168ot2h0mbnu2466n8ngj68t22n@4ax.com>,
Ed Johnson <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
> JT: I for one, have deeply appreciated all that you have done over
> the years for the Heinlein Forum, here and on the old Plodigy: as
> our historian and as someone not afraid to take a leadership role in
> getting this thing organized. I am certain that I am not alone is
> this appreciation.
> I have heard elsewhere that even five dollars is a strain on the
> budget for some people this year. That is about ten cents per week
> to support our open forum in it's current incarnation, here on
> sff.net.
> I would like to join with Jake Keaton in covering the remainder
> of this years bill. I like the Heinlein Forum's independence and
> don't think that we should shackle ourselves with anyone else's
> guidelines. Even an organization as benevolent as THS.
>
> Ed J
>
>
>
> On 7 Jan 2005 15:39:33 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (John Tilden) wrote:
>
> >WJaKe,
> >As far as direct lineage of the HF, It went through 3 or 4 phases on
> >Prodigy,
> >being as small as designated subject lines and as large as a dedicated Topic
> >(I can't even remember what they were actually called anymore!). We had
> >"parallel" groups variously on GEnie, AOL, and Delphi at the same time as
> >Prodigy. I don't think we ever hit CompuServe but I never had an account
> >there so I don't know for sure.
> >
> >But, we came to SFF Net first on 1/9/1997 and have been here continuously
> >ever since.
> >
> >Everyone--
> >Now, a lot has happened with Internet services since then. For about $40
> >yearly we could get a domain and put up our own php bulletin board and
> >easily
> >host the discussions we've been having here. Likely we would significantly
> >increase traffic.
> >
> >Switching to a mail/news account here still pays for the NNTP access, we
> >would lose web page hosting which is definitely the least-used service of
> >the HF, and possibly not worth the $60 portion we pay for it, especially
> >when (see above) we could easily host a domain for that money elsewhere.
> >
> >However, we're definitely paid with SFF Net through early December 2005,
> >so there's no rush to figure this out right away.
> >
> >I think that SFF Net does a great job of hosting genre discussion and
> >keeping
> >spam away from their boards, but because they successfully limit searching
> >you don't get large amounts of eyeballs checking us out. Good or Bad? Your
> >decision.
> >
> >Another option would be to move to the Heinlein Society boards and post
> >there, but then we would be subject to THS rules/opinions on off-topicness,
> >etc. THS didn't exist in 1997, and many of the things that the HF "does"
> >fit with THS also. A dedicated endowment under THS in the name of the Forum
> >might be one way to co-exist, just a possibility, but that would require
> >definite contributions to set up an endowment--but Heinlein's Centennial
> >is coming up and there's no time like the present.
> >
> >I owe the Heinlein Forum a lot, and I'm willing to keep putting in some
> >work towards it always, but if people feel strongly about preserving it
> >as an entity it just might be time to be a little more serious about
> >it--meaning
> >person(s) might want to spend some time organizing topics, questions to
> >stimulate discussion, personal get-togethers, etc.
> >
> >It's definitely not a money issue right now. The fees are covered.
> >
> >I guess that's all what has been floating about in my head for some time
> >now.
> >
> >your Historian,
> >JusTin
--
David M. Silver
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29
Lt.(jg), USN, R'td
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24269
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 20:55:29 -0500
Subject: Re: If it's December, it must be time to renew the HF.... ;)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
David: I want to express my thanks for your offer. I cannot speak
for anyone other than myself; but thanks nonetheless. We seem to
be doing well at sff.net for the next year, so there shouldn't be
any immediate need to take you up on your generous offer of the use
of your `boards. I was just sort of shocked to find out that there
was so feeble a response to help pay the annual bill.
Ed J
On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:28:09 -0800, "David M. Silver"
<ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:
>I didn't have any idea moving this forum to THS message boards was even
>a consideration. We'll give you a nest, of course, if you need one in a
>pinch, or otherwise; and anyone is free to use it otherwise -- it's not
>our intention that they be private boards in any sense: that's not what
>they are there for -- no passwords, no secret signs, no oaths of
>obligation. About the only time I, oh behalf of the board, ask Deb to
>yank a post over there (or would do it myself in her absence or
>inability) is when a nutcase shows up and posts something totally
>off-kilter or offensive -- although true spam (there's one close over
>there now that I just noticed, and two attempts to sell collector's
>books privately, but I think I'll leave them be for the time) might
>provoke the same response, about what your sysops here will remove.
>
>Regards,
>
>David
>
>
>In article <s9ftt0p168ot2h0mbnu2466n8ngj68t22n@4ax.com>,
> Ed Johnson <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
>
>> JT: I for one, have deeply appreciated all that you have done over
>> the years for the Heinlein Forum, here and on the old Plodigy: as
>> our historian and as someone not afraid to take a leadership role in
>> getting this thing organized. I am certain that I am not alone is
>> this appreciation.
>> I have heard elsewhere that even five dollars is a strain on the
>> budget for some people this year. That is about ten cents per week
>> to support our open forum in it's current incarnation, here on
>> sff.net.
>> I would like to join with Jake Keaton in covering the remainder
>> of this years bill. I like the Heinlein Forum's independence and
>> don't think that we should shackle ourselves with anyone else's
>> guidelines. Even an organization as benevolent as THS.
>>
>> Ed J
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7 Jan 2005 15:39:33 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (John Tilden) wrote:
>>
>> >WJaKe,
>> >As far as direct lineage of the HF, It went through 3 or 4 phases on
>> >Prodigy,
>> >being as small as designated subject lines and as large as a dedicated Topic
>> >(I can't even remember what they were actually called anymore!). We had
>> >"parallel" groups variously on GEnie, AOL, and Delphi at the same time as
>> >Prodigy. I don't think we ever hit CompuServe but I never had an account
>> >there so I don't know for sure.
>> >
>> >But, we came to SFF Net first on 1/9/1997 and have been here continuously
>> >ever since.
>> >
>> >Everyone--
>> >Now, a lot has happened with Internet services since then. For about $40
>> >yearly we could get a domain and put up our own php bulletin board and
>> >easily
>> >host the discussions we've been having here. Likely we would significantly
>> >increase traffic.
>> >
>> >Switching to a mail/news account here still pays for the NNTP access, we
>> >would lose web page hosting which is definitely the least-used service of
>> >the HF, and possibly not worth the $60 portion we pay for it, especially
>> >when (see above) we could easily host a domain for that money elsewhere.
>> >
>> >However, we're definitely paid with SFF Net through early December 2005,
>> >so there's no rush to figure this out right away.
>> >
>> >I think that SFF Net does a great job of hosting genre discussion and
>> >keeping
>> >spam away from their boards, but because they successfully limit searching
>> >you don't get large amounts of eyeballs checking us out. Good or Bad? Your
>> >decision.
>> >
>> >Another option would be to move to the Heinlein Society boards and post
>> >there, but then we would be subject to THS rules/opinions on off-topicness,
>> >etc. THS didn't exist in 1997, and many of the things that the HF "does"
>> >fit with THS also. A dedicated endowment under THS in the name of the Forum
>> >might be one way to co-exist, just a possibility, but that would require
>> >definite contributions to set up an endowment--but Heinlein's Centennial
>> >is coming up and there's no time like the present.
>> >
>> >I owe the Heinlein Forum a lot, and I'm willing to keep putting in some
>> >work towards it always, but if people feel strongly about preserving it
>> >as an entity it just might be time to be a little more serious about
>> >it--meaning
>> >person(s) might want to spend some time organizing topics, questions to
>> >stimulate discussion, personal get-togethers, etc.
>> >
>> >It's definitely not a money issue right now. The fees are covered.
>> >
>> >I guess that's all what has been floating about in my head for some time
>> >now.
>> >
>> >your Historian,
>> >JusTin
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24270
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 21:05:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Tsunami (was Re: Martian Car Wash)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger: The local (NJ) news reported that the Tsunami 'struck'
the Jersey shore 32 hours after the earthquake that caused it;
traveling around the world from near Indonesia. It went unnoticed
as it had attenuated to about nine inches in height by the time it
reached Atlantic City, New Jersey.
As a follow up on our earlier discussion of an early warning
system: it seems that one will be established in the wake of this
recent tragedy.
Ed
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:47:59 -0800, Filksinger
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>
>
>Ed Johnson wrote:
>> Filksinger: Do you think that some of those killed in the Tsunami
>> could have been saved by an early warning system? Tens of thousands
>> of people were killed more than an hour after the 8.9 (later
>> upgraded to: Richter 9.0) quake was recorded at stations around the
>> world.Pleanty of time to have reached some number of vacationers on
>> the beach. I tuned into the news late and heard that tidal waves had
>> killed thousands near India. My first thought was that a meteor had
>> impacted the water. The repeat broadcast then mentioned the huge
>> underwater earthquake.
>>
>> Ed J
>
>An early warning system would be bound to have saved _some_ people, but
>how many is a big question. People in the area really had no idea what
>to do about the tsunami. There hasn't been a significant tsunami that
>hit land in the Indian Ocean in 100 years.
>
>The early warning system here in the Pacific Northwest has saved lives,
>but we have two advantages. The first is we have a history of
>earthquakes and tsunamis, so anybody who lives on the coast presumably
>knows about the threat. The second is that our terrain makes a very big
>difference. We have a very rugged coastline. The distance from sea level
>to too high for even that tsunami to hurt is often measured in tens of feet.
>
>However, I would love to see a decent worldwide system. It might help
>the US a lot, too. As I understand it, the Pacific is the only ocean
>with a good warning system for most of its coastline. The Atlantic could
>use one, too, as well as the Indian and Mediterranean. Some scientists
>are actually predicting that the Atlantic may, in the next 100 years or
>so, have a tsunami which will reach as much as 50 meters when it hits
>Florida, and 100 meters in parts of Africa. The Indian Ocean tsunami was
>only 15 meters, for comparison.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24271
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 02:55:36 -0800
Subject: Re: If it's December, it must be time to renew the HF.... ;)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Ed,
I'm tip-toeing around the tulips here, so I have to be a little delicate
and evasive in what I say: it occurs to me that infrequently THS through
Dave Wright, or Geo, or Deb, or me, uses this forum -- and the old
mostly unused people.robert-a-heinlein one for publicity. We try not to
abuse it; and, frankly, don't always use it because we figure many
interested in what we have to say lurk AFH which we use more often.
But, ... and this is a big 'but,' if we regularly used it for
announcements, the number of THS related posts would increase, and we'd
be obliged IMO to take up a bit of the freight paying for its existence.
We wouldn't want anything to do with its management, thank you very
much. At best, it would be an analog to merely placing advertisements.
In the past we've done that in regard to another place, so there is some
precedent I could mention to the board, whose decisions bind me.
I hated to see the renew thread go the way it went.
But if you think our support, financial, would be helpful here next
year, please let me know your feelings. Not just "you," but all of you
reading.
Evasively,
David
In article <6g31u0lm29ul7r81sam6o9m5qs446m446p@4ax.com>,
Ed Johnson <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
> David: I want to express my thanks for your offer. I cannot speak
> for anyone other than myself; but thanks nonetheless. We seem to
> be doing well at sff.net for the next year, so there shouldn't be
> any immediate need to take you up on your generous offer of the use
> of your `boards. I was just sort of shocked to find out that there
> was so feeble a response to help pay the annual bill.
>
> Ed J
>
>
> On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:28:09 -0800, "David M. Silver"
> <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >I didn't have any idea moving this forum to THS message boards was even
> >a consideration. We'll give you a nest, of course, if you need one in a
> >pinch, or otherwise; and anyone is free to use it otherwise -- it's not
> >our intention that they be private boards in any sense: that's not what
> >they are there for -- no passwords, no secret signs, no oaths of
> >obligation. About the only time I, oh behalf of the board, ask Deb to
> >yank a post over there (or would do it myself in her absence or
> >inability) is when a nutcase shows up and posts something totally
> >off-kilter or offensive -- although true spam (there's one close over
> >there now that I just noticed, and two attempts to sell collector's
> >books privately, but I think I'll leave them be for the time) might
> >provoke the same response, about what your sysops here will remove.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >David
> >
> >
> >In article <s9ftt0p168ot2h0mbnu2466n8ngj68t22n@4ax.com>,
> > Ed Johnson <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
> >
> >> JT: I for one, have deeply appreciated all that you have done over
> >> the years for the Heinlein Forum, here and on the old Plodigy: as
> >> our historian and as someone not afraid to take a leadership role in
> >> getting this thing organized. I am certain that I am not alone is
> >> this appreciation.
> >> I have heard elsewhere that even five dollars is a strain on the
> >> budget for some people this year. That is about ten cents per week
> >> to support our open forum in it's current incarnation, here on
> >> sff.net.
> >> I would like to join with Jake Keaton in covering the remainder
> >> of this years bill. I like the Heinlein Forum's independence and
> >> don't think that we should shackle ourselves with anyone else's
> >> guidelines. Even an organization as benevolent as THS.
> >>
> >> Ed J
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 7 Jan 2005 15:39:33 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (John Tilden) wrote:
> >>
> >> >WJaKe,
> >> >As far as direct lineage of the HF, It went through 3 or 4 phases on
> >> >Prodigy,
> >> >being as small as designated subject lines and as large as a dedicated
> >> >Topic
> >> >(I can't even remember what they were actually called anymore!). We had
> >> >"parallel" groups variously on GEnie, AOL, and Delphi at the same time as
> >> >Prodigy. I don't think we ever hit CompuServe but I never had an account
> >> >there so I don't know for sure.
> >> >
> >> >But, we came to SFF Net first on 1/9/1997 and have been here continuously
> >> >ever since.
> >> >
> >> >Everyone--
> >> >Now, a lot has happened with Internet services since then. For about $40
> >> >yearly we could get a domain and put up our own php bulletin board and
> >> >easily
> >> >host the discussions we've been having here. Likely we would
> >> >significantly
> >> >increase traffic.
> >> >
> >> >Switching to a mail/news account here still pays for the NNTP access, we
> >> >would lose web page hosting which is definitely the least-used service of
> >> >the HF, and possibly not worth the $60 portion we pay for it, especially
> >> >when (see above) we could easily host a domain for that money elsewhere.
> >> >
> >> >However, we're definitely paid with SFF Net through early December 2005,
> >> >so there's no rush to figure this out right away.
> >> >
> >> >I think that SFF Net does a great job of hosting genre discussion and
> >> >keeping
> >> >spam away from their boards, but because they successfully limit
> >> >searching
> >> >you don't get large amounts of eyeballs checking us out. Good or Bad?
> >> >Your
> >> >decision.
> >> >
> >> >Another option would be to move to the Heinlein Society boards and post
> >> >there, but then we would be subject to THS rules/opinions on
> >> >off-topicness,
> >> >etc. THS didn't exist in 1997, and many of the things that the HF "does"
> >> >fit with THS also. A dedicated endowment under THS in the name of the
> >> >Forum
> >> >might be one way to co-exist, just a possibility, but that would require
> >> >definite contributions to set up an endowment--but Heinlein's Centennial
> >> >is coming up and there's no time like the present.
> >> >
> >> >I owe the Heinlein Forum a lot, and I'm willing to keep putting in some
> >> >work towards it always, but if people feel strongly about preserving it
> >> >as an entity it just might be time to be a little more serious about
> >> >it--meaning
> >> >person(s) might want to spend some time organizing topics, questions to
> >> >stimulate discussion, personal get-togethers, etc.
> >> >
> >> >It's definitely not a money issue right now. The fees are covered.
> >> >
> >> >I guess that's all what has been floating about in my head for some time
> >> >now.
> >> >
> >> >your Historian,
> >> >JusTin
--
David M. Silver
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29
Lt.(jg), USN, R'td
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24272
From: Filksinger
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 04:36:49 -0800
Subject: New Privacy Tool
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
While this list was once very interested in privacy and encryption, I
haven't posted anything on either in a while. Partially it was because I
wasn't keeping up on it as thoroughly as I used to, true, but there was
a bigger reason. The main reason was a lack of anything worthwhile to
say. Most of the old anonymous services, such as Cypherpunk mail
servers, seemed to be dead, dying, or compromised. The new ones were
mostly either untrustworthy, short-lived, or commercial. The exceptions,
if any, were either too little use or too much trouble.
Thus, I've been keeping mum until something proved itself out. For some
time now, little has.
Tor (The Onion Router project) at http://tor.eff.org has changed that,
at least to the point of making me want to write. It is, in fact, not an
exception, in that it hasn't actually fully proved itself out yet, but
I'm breaking that rule for it regardless. There are several reasons:
1. Free now and for the foreseeable future, using both definitions of
"free software".
2. It is much more useful than almost any previous product. It will
anonymize instant messaging, web browsing, web mail usage (though it
does not protect the contents, it will prevent anyone from knowing who
used the webmail to send it), and SSH, for instance. Virtually any
product that supports SOCKS4a will work with Tor. (Note: SOCKS5 will
only work with one known program, Safari for the Mac. All other programs
will require SOCKS4a.)
3. The diversity of people already using Tor. There are hundreds of
users (the exact number is unknown, because its anonymous, of course),
but they include the US Navy for open-source intelligence gathering, US
companies for market research, researching competition, etc., the German
group "Diabetes People", and the EFF. The more diverse this group, the
more effective the anonymity. For instance, the NSA can't put you on a
watch list for looking at possible terrorist websites when they can't
tell if you are you or a Navy intelligence gatherer.
4. It is backed by the EFF, among others. No previous anonymity product
has this trustworthy or reliable an organization supporting it.
Trustworthy and reliable, in this sense, means I can trust them to try
for real anonymity and rely on them to follow through on the project.
Previous projects were supported by groups that you either couldn't
fully trust or who only went so far, then gave it up.
5. While still technically in development, it appears to be well
designed and solid. It is intended to not only anonymize traffic, but
resist traffic analysis of most types. This is, of course, only my
opinion, and I do not claim to be an expert. (Note that there are
possible attacks that cannot be defeated by any reasonable method short
of anonymizing most of the Internet or introducing deliberate
random-length delays, but they are difficult because they require
monitoring both the user and the web server. They are also harder to do
the more people use the service.)
6. An additional cool feature: location-hidden services. This means that
I can offer a service (a chat server, web pages) anonymously, too, with
a .onion extension. Using Tor to connect to these anonymous servers
gives both sides anonymity _and_ end-to-end encryption. Among other
things, there are currently offered a gateway to the Panta anonymous
email system and controversial web pages including the entire text of a
1973 book by the current head of the Libertarian party. (Interestingly
enough, the book argues persuasively that he is currently wasting his
life.:)
Try it out, look around. Keep in mind that, as they point out
repeatedly, the project is still in the beta stage, if not alpha. It
should only get more trustworthy and bigger.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24273
From: les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk)
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 16:29:53 GMT
Subject: Re: If it's December, it must be time to renew the HF.... ;)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Shwew JT! Now you've scared us!
Don't move the HF! Really I guess it doesn't matter where it is as
I'll be able to find it again somehow. If it would be better for us
somewhere else...but I don't have any idea what the advantages would
really be.
As for having more organization, do you mean like having actual
leadership and really working to get things done? (like blood drives
and gatherings) I'm not sure that would go over very well here. I'm
thinking people rather like having a place to yak with other cool
people in their spare time, but wouldn't really like to HAVE to pay a
yearly memebership or have official responsibilities etc. We're kinda
a lax group. Now that said, I certainly wouldn't mind taking on more
responsibility to the HF if something needed doing. And I think it
might be kinda fun to actually do more stuff! But you know how
actively I post around here...I'm so full of it!
Les
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24274
From: les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk)
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 16:33:07 GMT
Subject: Re: Bread and Circuses (Or, Washington Gubernatorial Vote Counting)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 23:54:37 -0800, Filksinger
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>However, what I _really_ recommend is that Dino Rossi and Christine
>Gregoire select the top 10 people from each of their camps, and lead a
>fight to settle the matter. For weapons, I recommend fully loaded
>fifty-round compressed air dart guns with curare darts at 10 paces.
>
What a marvelous idea! I for one am sick of all this crap. Can't
wait to move outa WA!
Les
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24275
From: les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk)
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 16:44:35 GMT
Subject: Re: Tsunami (was Re: Martian Car Wash)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger,
Since you are an expert on the subject of tsuanmis, can I ask you a
question? How far inland did this thing get? I'm sure it varied
widely, but I'm just curious how far from the coast you have to be to
stay safe from a tsunami. Which then again probably vaires due to
it's size. Ah well, any insight would be helpful.
Les
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24276
From: les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk)
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 16:48:33 GMT
Subject: Re: Kelly Freas
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Now I'm kicking myself for recently selling my two Kelly Freas signed
pulps on ebay. Shoot!
It is very sad to loose such a great artist. And I hadn't realized
his connection with Mad magazine either. That's pretty darn cool!
Les
On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:03:12 -0500, "William Keaton"
<wjake@verizon.net> wrote:
>For those of you who know who Kelly Freas is, I was saddened to hear that he
>passed on this past Sunday.
>
>For those of you who don't know who Kelly Freas is, go to your book shelf
>and start pulling down some of your favorite SF books. Look at the cover
>art, then look in the corner or on the inside of the book. Kelly Freas did
>more covers than you can possibly imagine. He was a talented and prolific
>artitst, and a heck of a guy.
>
>No, I didn't know him, just met him and talked to him at a couple of
>Worldcons.
>
>And I was surprised to see that he was a defining artist of the early Mad
>magazine, and was responsible for that magazine's defining character Alfred
>E. Neumann.
>
>WJaKe
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24277
From: JT
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 13:50:11 -0500
Subject: Re: If it's December, it must be time to renew the HF.... ;)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Heck, just post more. What I think we honestly need are a few more
earnest yet "contrary" personalities willing to post every couple of
days, just to make it interesting. I don't mean people who'll say
"black" just because you say "white", but someone who earnestly
believes in an (American) Liberal platform would certainly have a
decent debate with a few of us here. Or even a British person to talk
about things from that societal viewpoint.
Even just someone who was willing to post about what they've been
reading lately would spark a few stream-of-consciousness threads. I'm
just as guilty as the next on that as I have been doing a fair amount
of reading in the last few months.
Remember way back when we had ML, Becky-Trekkie and Jai, and
Tomstaafl? No matter what the issue, you could count on thoughtful
debate -from several sides. Becky-Trekkie & I could usually be
counted on for the naive viewpoint, and I haven't talked to her in
years, but I'm not -that- naive anymore. ;)
Money is absolutely the smallest part of the equation. The troubling
part is that it takes -weeks- for our regulars to even see notes, and
that just means that it's not a terribly engaging place at the moment.
I think dropping back to the mail/news account next year is probably
in order, because the web page can find a home almost anywhere. And
the honest truth is that we have enough SFF Net members around here
that sff.discuss.heinlein-forum is never going to be deactivated, even
if we don't maintain the account in the name of the HF.
Thanks for all the emails and notes--how about posting a few notes to
see if conversations spark?
JT
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 16:29:53 GMT, les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk) wrote:
>Shwew JT! Now you've scared us!
>Don't move the HF! Really I guess it doesn't matter where it is as
>I'll be able to find it again somehow. If it would be better for us
>somewhere else...but I don't have any idea what the advantages would
>really be.
>As for having more organization, do you mean like having actual
>leadership and really working to get things done? (like blood drives
>and gatherings) I'm not sure that would go over very well here. I'm
>thinking people rather like having a place to yak with other cool
>people in their spare time, but wouldn't really like to HAVE to pay a
>yearly memebership or have official responsibilities etc. We're kinda
>a lax group. Now that said, I certainly wouldn't mind taking on more
>responsibility to the HF if something needed doing. And I think it
>might be kinda fun to actually do more stuff! But you know how
>actively I post around here...I'm so full of it!
>Les
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24278
From: JT
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 13:52:31 -0500
Subject: Re: New Privacy Tool
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Thanks, Filk. I'll try and remember to look this up over the next few
weeks.
JT
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 04:36:49 -0800, Filksinger
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>
>Tor (The Onion Router project) at http://tor.eff.org has changed that,
>at least to the point of making me want to write. It is, in fact, not an
>exception, in that it hasn't actually fully proved itself out yet, but
>I'm breaking that rule for it regardless. There are several reasons:
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24279
From: JT
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 13:59:11 -0500
Subject: Recent Reading
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
With Christine, I've been reading the J.D. Robb series of ".... In
Death" books. It's a near-time SF Mystery/Homicide genre. J.D. Robb
is actually Nora Roberts, so that means the books have at least three
or four sex scenes. They're pretty well-done, though, and there's a
good cast of regulars, so it's been a nice diversion. There's about
15 or 16 of them, and we've been getting them out of the library to
fill in the times around other books.
I also had a friend mail me a copy of Robert J. Sawyer's "Hominids" as
a Christmas present. It was unexpected, which made it all the more
enjoyable. Liked it so much that I read the next two in the trilogy
as well.
The book posits an alternate universe where Neanderthals evolved
instead of us, and then a portal gets opened between the two. There's
some interesting research that's used as a stepping stone throughout
the books, and I'd be curious if the more science literate among us
(Hi Eli!) have read the book and have anything to say about the
theories that drive all three books. I don't want to say more unless
others have already read them (or go out and read them ;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24280
From: JT
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 14:05:30 -0500
Subject: Sorta Personal: Dieting
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
She'll probably kill me for posting this here, but Christine & I are
trying our first-ever "real" diet starting tomorrow. For various
reasons we had the South Beach Diet recommended to us, we did some
research, and we are trying it.
If you're not familiar with the diet, the first two weeks are a big
change for most people. Since I am picky and my kids are normal kids
(meaning they are picky too), this will not be as easy as it was for
my brother who had no one else to worry about meals for.
Anyway, if any of you are currently starting or have been on a diet,
please feel free to post words of encouragement. My goal is actually
"only" 30-35 pounds, but it's weight I've basically never been
without, so I doubt it will shed all that easily.
I am also starting a very low-key exercise plan via a gym at my
workplace. I plan to start slow and just try to make it a part of my
workweek. Christine has been going to a gym for a while but the
winter's been hard because the kids have been sick on-and-off.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24281
From: les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk)
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 21:39:54 GMT
Subject: Re: If it's December, it must be time to renew the HF.... ;)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Ha ha!
Yes, we do just need to post more. I always have the intention of
doing so, but just don't get around to it.
You know JP and I have web space too where you could host the web site
if you wanted to. Although it'd be at www.vrolyk.org then which might
seem weird!
So now I'll go post a new thread...dare me to do it?
Les
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 13:50:11 -0500, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
>Heck, just post more. What I think we honestly need are a few more
>earnest yet "contrary" personalities willing to post every couple of
>days, just to make it interesting. I don't mean people who'll say
>"black" just because you say "white", but someone who earnestly
>believes in an (American) Liberal platform would certainly have a
>decent debate with a few of us here. Or even a British person to talk
>about things from that societal viewpoint.
>
>Even just someone who was willing to post about what they've been
>reading lately would spark a few stream-of-consciousness threads. I'm
>just as guilty as the next on that as I have been doing a fair amount
>of reading in the last few months.
>
>Remember way back when we had ML, Becky-Trekkie and Jai, and
>Tomstaafl? No matter what the issue, you could count on thoughtful
>debate -from several sides. Becky-Trekkie & I could usually be
>counted on for the naive viewpoint, and I haven't talked to her in
>years, but I'm not -that- naive anymore. ;)
>
>Money is absolutely the smallest part of the equation. The troubling
>part is that it takes -weeks- for our regulars to even see notes, and
>that just means that it's not a terribly engaging place at the moment.
>
>I think dropping back to the mail/news account next year is probably
>in order, because the web page can find a home almost anywhere. And
>the honest truth is that we have enough SFF Net members around here
>that sff.discuss.heinlein-forum is never going to be deactivated, even
>if we don't maintain the account in the name of the HF.
>
>Thanks for all the emails and notes--how about posting a few notes to
>see if conversations spark?
>
>JT
>
>
>On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 16:29:53 GMT, les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk) wrote:
>
>>Shwew JT! Now you've scared us!
>>Don't move the HF! Really I guess it doesn't matter where it is as
>>I'll be able to find it again somehow. If it would be better for us
>>somewhere else...but I don't have any idea what the advantages would
>>really be.
>>As for having more organization, do you mean like having actual
>>leadership and really working to get things done? (like blood drives
>>and gatherings) I'm not sure that would go over very well here. I'm
>>thinking people rather like having a place to yak with other cool
>>people in their spare time, but wouldn't really like to HAVE to pay a
>>yearly memebership or have official responsibilities etc. We're kinda
>>a lax group. Now that said, I certainly wouldn't mind taking on more
>>responsibility to the HF if something needed doing. And I think it
>>might be kinda fun to actually do more stuff! But you know how
>>actively I post around here...I'm so full of it!
>>Les
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24282
From: les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk)
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 21:45:19 GMT
Subject: Re: Sorta Personal: Dieting
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Ew, know about the sick kids stuff and etc. It's not easy to get to
the gym all the time. I was doing Curves for about 3 months and that
worked really well for me. I would go in before JP went off to work
in the morning. I liked it, but have now run out of steam for such
things and have quit going. It would be nice to do it again in the
future, but I don't think we'll be able to afford it on our new Army
salary!
As far as diets go, I'm a real proponant of Weight Watchers. It seems
like a dorky program for old ladies, but it really teaches you to eat
a more healthy diet. Which I think is better than radically changing
your diet like the Atkins stuff does. It's hard to make big changes
in how you eat and stick to them over the long term. But good luck
with the South Beach and tell us more about how it works eh?
Les
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 14:05:30 -0500, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
>She'll probably kill me for posting this here, but Christine & I are
>trying our first-ever "real" diet starting tomorrow. For various
>reasons we had the South Beach Diet recommended to us, we did some
>research, and we are trying it.
>
>If you're not familiar with the diet, the first two weeks are a big
>change for most people. Since I am picky and my kids are normal kids
>(meaning they are picky too), this will not be as easy as it was for
>my brother who had no one else to worry about meals for.
>
>Anyway, if any of you are currently starting or have been on a diet,
>please feel free to post words of encouragement. My goal is actually
>"only" 30-35 pounds, but it's weight I've basically never been
>without, so I doubt it will shed all that easily.
>
>I am also starting a very low-key exercise plan via a gym at my
>workplace. I plan to start slow and just try to make it a part of my
>workweek. Christine has been going to a gym for a while but the
>winter's been hard because the kids have been sick on-and-off.
>
>JT
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Article: 24283
From: les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk)
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 21:52:22 GMT
Subject: Re: Recent Reading
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Well, I have nothing to add to your post JT as I haven't read those
books. But as far as recent reading...
I have been reading the Archangel series by Sharon Shinn. JP and I
have read the first two books so far. And I think we both agree that
they are alot of fun. Fairly heavy on romance I think, but it's got a
really neat premise.
Sean Stewart also came out with a new book recently which I really
liked. Perfect Circle (had to check the shelf)
I also stumbled upon a relatively new author that I thought was pretty
fun, Karin Lowachee. She has 2 books that I know of, both good.
Unfortunately, none of what I've read recently would spark any great
debates! Unless you include non-fiction, in which case I am making my
slow way through History of God by Karen Armstrong. I keep bugging JP
with all my questions, but what a brilliant idea! I should post them
here instead! Now to think of something...
Les
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24284
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 17:52:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent Reading
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT wrote:
>The book posits an alternate universe where Neanderthals evolved
>instead of us, and then a portal gets opened between the two. There's
>some interesting research that's used as a stepping stone throughout
>the books, and I'd be curious if the more science literate among us
>(Hi Eli!) have read the book and have anything to say about the
>theories that drive all three books. I don't want to say more unless
>others have already read them (or go out and read them ;)
>
>
Hi! I haven't read them, but I doubt I'd be much more literate in this
area than anyone else. I am planning to educate myself about human
evolution. I got an Amazon gift certificate for Christmas, and one thing
I'm getting with it is Jared Diamond's _The Third Chimpanzee_. I loved
his _Guns, Germs and Steel_, and am also picking up his most recent
offering about environmental catastrophes in human history. For any of
you who haven't read Diamond's stuff, I highly recommend it.
With all the reading I do for work, I don't have as much time as I'd
like for "pleasure" reading. Dani gave me _America (the book)_ for
Christmas, and it was a fun, light read. I would recommend looking for
it at your library or borrowing from a friend, since this isn't really
one I'd keep to reread. I recently finished Neal Stephenson's Baroque
Trilogy, which was a lot of fun and quite possibly the first thing of
his that had a decent ending instead of leaving you feeling like there's
more story he didn't tell. Stephenson's my favorite current author. John
Barnes (who posts on sff.people.flavius and sff.people.susan-shwartz) is
another fave. His _Gaudameus_ (sp?) is also in the Amazon shopping cart.
While I'm posting, I'll go on record as saying I didn't pledge for the
HF this year. I have an sff.net account, and each year when it comes up
for renewal in December I debate getting rid of it, because 90+% of what
I use sff.net for I could do without the account (the remaining small
percentage is infrequent reading of the flames group, which is only
available to members). The end result of my struggle this year was that
I kept the account another year, but couldn't bring myself to send more
money for the HF. I know that's not really logical, but that's how it
ended up. What I probably should do is just cancel my account and post
more frequently here. That's more likely to happen, since I just dropped
one of the high-traffic groups I read.
--
Eli V. Hestermann
ehestermann@charter.net
"Vita brevis est, ars longa" - Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24285
From: Filksinger
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 15:03:41 -0800
Subject: Re: Tsunami (was Re: Martian Car Wash)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Les Vrolyk wrote:
> Filksinger, Since you are an expert on the subject of tsuanmis, can I
> ask you a question? How far inland did this thing get? I'm sure it
> varied widely, but I'm just curious how far from the coast you have
> to be to stay safe from a tsunami. Which then again probably vaires
> due to it's size. Ah well, any insight would be helpful. Les
I'm a professional computer geek and an amateur science geek who reads
too much and talks a good talk. I am _not_ an expert on tsunamis, or
even close. I've even mostly lost track of my formerly favorite field,
physics.
Unless you live in a low-lying coastal area, the thing to check is your
height above sea level. The Indian tsunami reached about 15 meters. So,
if you are more than 15 meters above sea level, and not actually looking
out your window directly at a beach facing the ocean, you are pretty
safe from anything but the very largest tsunamis. If you are looking out
over the ocean, you'll want to be out of range of the splash, and sure
that your house isn't on something that will wash away. How much higher
you want to be to avoid that splash if you live on a cliff over the
ocean, I don't know.
If you are in a low-lying coastal area, I have no clue. I could tell you
how far the oceans would rise if the ice caps melt (an issue that helped
settle for me that Rush Limbaugh wasn't worth listening to), because
that water will just keep coming and coming until it fills any low area
not protected by highlands on all sides. A tsunami, however, loses power
over dry land according a large number of factors I know nothing about.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24286
From: JT
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 20:18:13 -0500
Subject: Re: If it's December, it must be time to renew the HF.... ;)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 21:39:54 GMT, les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk) wrote:
>So now I'll go post a new thread...dare me to do it?
>Les
I double-dog dare you. :\
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24287
From: JT
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 20:22:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent Reading
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 17:52:58 -0500, Eli Hestermann
<ehestermann@charter.net> wrote:
>The end result of my struggle this year was that
>I kept the account another year, but couldn't bring myself to send more
>money for the HF. I know that's not really logical, but that's how it
>ended up. What I probably should do is just cancel my account and post
>more frequently here. That's more likely to happen, since I just dropped
>one of the high-traffic groups I read.
Actually, by sending in money for an account all by yourself, you're
supporting SFF Net in a greater percentage than if you just kicked in
a few bucks towards the HF. We just don't call you an official
Patron.
So kudos right now, Eli. ;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 24288
From: JT
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 20:32:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Sorta Personal: Dieting
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 21:45:19 GMT, les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk) wrote:
> But good luck
>with the South Beach and tell us more about how it works eh?
>Les
>
It all boils down to eating sensibly and getting rid of as many
"processed" carbohydrates out of your diet as you can. The first two
weeks you eliminate just about all Carbs, and that is supposed to
reset your metabolism. Then, you add back in 'natural carbs' (like
limited amounts of whole grain bread, fresh fruit but not processed
juices, etc.) Continue with that until you've reached the weight you
want.
What we both like about it is that it's realistic. The doctor
realizes there are days that you occasionally pig out, the holidays
happen, etc. My brother followed it loosely, coupled with regular
exercise, and he lost a lot of weight, and has kept it off for almost
a year, which is one of the things that made me look seriously at
it--we have very similar body types.
So, on paper it makes sense. We'll see how these "drastic" two weeks
go by. Try living with an Italian and both denying yourselves pasta
for two weeks! (Especially since we're not making the kids do it, so
it'll still be around.) I've already apologized to Christine in
advance for being an @ss for the next 14 days. ;)
Hey, even if you can't get to the gym you should still be able to go
for walks. But I know that's easier said than done.
JT
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