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Archive of: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Archive desc: The Internet home for the Heinlein Forum
Archived by: webnews@sff.net
Archive date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:24:45
============================================================
Article 23139
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:14:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Quiz
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Jane Davitt" <jdavitt01@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:3fb18fdd.0@news.sff.net...
> I tried this quiz and guess who I got? :-)
>
Hmmm, I got Papa Hemingway. Maybe it was my selection of my ideal mate:
The high-bred daughter of a local cotton factor, made into a whore and opium
addict by a sadistic trio of stinking, toothless, redneck brothers, one of
whom is passionately in love with a cow
Can you predict the author you get? Heinlein was easy, Hemingway was waaay
too easy. I tried to see if F. Scott Fitzgerald was in there, but kept
getting Dorothy Parker! Anne Rice was predictable as well.
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23140
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:28:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Favorite Quotes
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I came across this some years ago, as I was preparing for a trip:
"The man who goes alone can start today, but he who travels with another
must wait till that other is ready."
Henry David Thoreau, Walden (1854)
It has been my travel motto for some time now.
I had lost that quote, and in searching the web came across many other
travel quotes I like:
I have felt this way from time to time:
"Clay lies still, but blood's a rover;
Breath's aware that will not keep.
Up, lad: when the journey's over then there'll be time enough to sleep."
A.E. Housman 1859-1936: A Shropshire Lad
This quote has been way to relevant:
"When you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there."
Anonymous
I've noticed this in just the past few years:
"As I have grown older, I have needed more stars in my hotels."
Anonymous
And of course:
"When you look like your passport photo, it's time to go home!"
Erma Bombeck
"Sometimes the road is 'less traveled by' for a reason!"
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23141
From: Filksinger"
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 00:35:58 -0800
Subject: Re: Favorite Quotes
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
cdozo wrote:
> In two different places today I've been asked for my favorite quote.
> It got me to wondering...
>
> What's your favorite quote?
>
> I have two.
I have dozens. Here's just a few:
"What are the facts? Again and again and again -
what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore
divine revelation, forget what "the stars foretell,"
avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think,
never mind the unguessable "verdict of history" -
what are the facts, and to how many decimal places?
You pilot always into an unknown future; facts
are your single clue. Get the facts!"
Robert Heinlein, "The Notebooks of Lazarus Long"
"If somebody asks if you are a god, you say _YES_."
Bill Murray, as Peter Venkman, in "Ghostbusters"
"The phrase "we (I) (you) simply must..." designates something that need not
be done. "That goes without saying" is a red warning. "Of course" means you
had best check it yourself. These small-change cliches and others like them,
when read correctly, are reliable channel markers."
Robert Heinlein, "The Notebooks of Lazarus Long"
"HARANGUE, n.
A speech by an opponent, who is known as an harrangue- outang."
Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23142
From: Jane Davitt
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:43:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Quiz
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
William J. Keaton wrote:
> "Jane Davitt" <jdavitt01@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:3fb18fdd.0@news.sff.net...
>
>>I tried this quiz and guess who I got? :-)
>>
>
>
> Hmmm, I got Papa Hemingway. Maybe it was my selection of my ideal mate:
>
> The high-bred daughter of a local cotton factor, made into a whore and opium
> addict by a sadistic trio of stinking, toothless, redneck brothers, one of
> whom is passionately in love with a cow
>
> Can you predict the author you get? Heinlein was easy, Hemingway was waaay
> too easy. I tried to see if F. Scott Fitzgerald was in there, but kept
> getting Dorothy Parker! Anne Rice was predictable as well.
>
> WJaKe
>
>
I got Heinlein, but I wasn't expecting him to be one of the choices, so
it was a surprise (a nice one, of course!).
Jane
--
Read my Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction at
http://members.rogers.com/jdavitt01/index.html
http://www.fanfiction.net/~Jane Davitt
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23143
From: Catherine Hampton
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:16:22 -0800
Subject: Re: Favorite Quotes
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Seen in a .sig quote recently:
"Those who do not learn from history are condemned to revise it."
--
Ariel (aka Catherine Hampton) <ariel@tempest.boxmail.com>
===========================================================
Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/>
Human Rights Web * <http://www.hrweb.org/>
The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/>
(Please use this address for replies -- the address in my header is a
spam trap.)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23144
From: gunner"
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:48:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Favorite Quotes
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
and then there's kipling...
"down to gehenna or up to the throne,
he travels fastest who travels alone"
"gunner"
-----------------------
"William J. Keaton" <wjake@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3fb9bb03.0@news.sff.net...
> I came across this some years ago, as I was preparing for a trip:
>
>
> "The man who goes alone can start today, but he who travels with another
> must wait till that other is ready."
> Henry David Thoreau, Walden (1854)
>
> It has been my travel motto for some time now.
>
> I had lost that quote, and in searching the web came across many other
> travel quotes I like:
>
> I have felt this way from time to time:
>
> "Clay lies still, but blood's a rover;
> Breath's aware that will not keep.
> Up, lad: when the journey's over then there'll be time enough to sleep."
> A.E. Housman 1859-1936: A Shropshire Lad
>
> This quote has been way to relevant:
>
> "When you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there."
> Anonymous
>
> I've noticed this in just the past few years:
>
> "As I have grown older, I have needed more stars in my hotels."
> Anonymous
>
> And of course:
>
> "When you look like your passport photo, it's time to go home!"
> Erma Bombeck
>
> "Sometimes the road is 'less traveled by' for a reason!"
> WJaKe
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23145
From: gunner"
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:54:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Favorite Quotes
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
a coincidence david, i used the "what are the facts?" quote on a troll in a
yahoo group just a day or two ago as a reply to an ill informed rant, and
like you i've got a bunch of favourite quotes, several of them from r.a.h.,
such as "always place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in
the dark."
"gunner"
------------------------
"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:3fb9d9ff.0@news.sff.net...
> cdozo wrote:
> > In two different places today I've been asked for my favorite quote.
> > It got me to wondering...
> >
> > What's your favorite quote?
> >
> > I have two.
>
> I have dozens. Here's just a few:
>
> "What are the facts? Again and again and again -
> what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore
> divine revelation, forget what "the stars foretell,"
> avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think,
> never mind the unguessable "verdict of history" -
> what are the facts, and to how many decimal places?
> You pilot always into an unknown future; facts
> are your single clue. Get the facts!"
> Robert Heinlein, "The Notebooks of Lazarus Long"
>
> "If somebody asks if you are a god, you say _YES_."
> Bill Murray, as Peter Venkman, in "Ghostbusters"
>
> "The phrase "we (I) (you) simply must..." designates something that need
not
> be done. "That goes without saying" is a red warning. "Of course" means
you
> had best check it yourself. These small-change cliches and others like
them,
> when read correctly, are reliable channel markers."
> Robert Heinlein, "The Notebooks of Lazarus Long"
>
> "HARANGUE, n.
> A speech by an opponent, who is known as an harrangue- outang."
> Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
>
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23146
From: Oscagne"
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:03:48 -0600
Subject: RAH-AIM Readers Group chat meeting--"Genetic Selection in Heinlein" -- Dec. 4,6.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
sff.people.robert-a-heinlein
Howdy, all you sff'ers,
Some of you folks know me, but for others: My name is Joe McGrew and I'm
the Heinlein Reader's Group Sub-committee chair for the Heinlein Society.
It's been suggested that you guys might be interested in our Heinlein chats,
so I thought I'd copy the lead-off post for the next chat to see if there
was any interest. We use the AOL Instant Messenger for our chats because
some people who are new to chats find it easier to log in. And anyone who
has any questions about the chat, or problems logging in should feel free to
contact me.
You're all invited to come by.
The next RAH-AIM Readers Group chat will be "Genetic Selection in Heinlein,"
scheduled for December 4 and 6, 8pm and 4pm U.S. Central Time
(respectively). Anyone wishing to join us for the first time can find out
how by visiting
http://heinleinsociety.org/Archives/ReadersGrp/index.html#Info .
Kate Gladstone was kind enough to put together our lead-off this month:
-------------------
R.A.H.'s taboo-busting activities as a writer focused on a variety of
areas. Many fans and critics have focused on his "crowding [or more
than crowding] the taboos" in the area of sex - recent real-world
developments in biological science and engineering may draw our
attention to the ways he pushed the conceptual envelope in another and
allied area: that of genetics (specifically - his portrayals of
gene-selection, of one kind or another, as not only possible and
routine but desirable under a wide range of circumstances: and not only
- not even mostly - in the totalitarian type of society with which we
generally associate such notions as "eugenics.")
In BEYOND THIS HORIZON, for instance, questions of "What shall we
select for?" eerily prefigure some of the questions raised by parents
and physicians today, at the bare beginning-stages of the "designer
baby" era. And some characters in in HORIZON's better-baby-obsessed
society - the infertile Martha, for instance, not only prefigure
today's concern with infertility, but also may reflect
genetics/fertility-related concerns in the author's own life. (Robert
and Virginia never had children of their own, although they wanted them
.... and although Robert, like Martha in HORIZON, expressed himself
passionately and often about the need for people of "good genetic
stock" - in whatever way(s) one might define that - to reproduce and
pass on their genetic advantages. Did Martha or RAH ever feel any
intellectual/moral/emotional conflicts over finding a certain course of
action impossible for oneself yet urging it upon others? Or perhaps
Robert urged this course upon others - through BEYOND and other works
of his - precisely *because* he and Virginia found it impossible for
themselves yet regarded it as necessary nevertheless?)
Questions of genetics, eugenics, "improving the breed," and the like
(including questions of what makes genetic intervention
good/justifiable or the opposite) permeate not only BEYOND but,
notoriously, other words of RAH's, particularly GULF, METHUSELAH'S
CHILDREN, TIME ENOUGH FOR LOVE, and FRIDAY.
In each of those four novels as in BEYOND THIS HORIZON, Heinlein
comes out to a fair extent as supporting the use of genetic
technologies and/or selective breeding to improve the human gene-pool
(or part of the human gene-pool: GULF's _Homo_novus_ organization and
METHUSELAH's Howards, by and large, prefer to improve their own smarts
or longevity while leaving the rest of us un-improved). Sometimes,
though, we nevertheless see some ambiguity, some doubt, some admission
that (whatever the palpable merits of "improving the breed") not
everyone will feel quite happy with this.
HORIZON, for instance, gives us some sobering glimpses of the "Control
Naturals" - people who have not benefited from genetic-selection work
because, in some cases at least, the geneticists found no way to pull
significant improvements from their parents' genomes ("There wasn't
anything to select for in either of us," says Herbert, a Control
Natural, in explaining why he and his Control Natural wife decided not
to have children.) One wonders: do the very generous monetary stipends
that the "Control Naturals" receive (welfare-payments, in effect, for
those unable to compete on equal terms with the rest of the citizenry)
really make up for a life of (one presumes) finding oneself almost
perpetually outdone, out-thought, out-achieved, out-wooed, and -
generally - out-everythinged by just about every- and anyone? (Do you
remember ever getting picked last for a team at school or play - or
barred from the game entirely because you'd only drag your playmates
down? Now imagine that happening *every* *day* of your life - not only
in sports on the schoolyard, but each and every day and minute and hour
of your childhood, teenhood, and adulthood - in just about everything
you did or tried to do. Would money - in whatever vast sums apparently
provided to the Control Naturals by one of RAH's few successful
welfare-state economies - really make up for it?
To me, BEYOND THIS HORIZON carries a strong flavor of the old
_New_Yorker_ cartoon in which a psychiatrist tells a patient: "Sorry, I
can't help you overcome your inferiority-feelings - because, actually,
you _are_ inferior!" One wonders whether the psychotherapists of
HORIZON - "semantic correctionists," they call themselves - had any
better advice for the Control Naturals among their clients.)
Eugenics elsewhere in RAH works: GULF and METHUSELAH'S CHILDREN each
show one segment of the human race separating itself from the rest (on
genetic grounds - because of quicker, more capable brains or sturdier,
longer-lived bodies), breeding for the traits that distinguish it
(_Homo_novus_ encourages its members to have baby after baby -
Kettle-Belly Baldwin praises a member who has borne a horde of
"wonderful genius-plus kids" - and, similarly, the Howard Families
provide financial encouragement for their members to reproduce with
each other early and often). In both GULF and CHILDREN (for a time at
least), the bearers of genetically enviable traits expect the rest of
us, with our comparatively undesirable genes, to feel entirely happy
with that arrangement. (In CHILDREN, at least, the Howards learn
otherwise - the hard way. I suspect that some similarly bitter learning
took place for the _Homo_novus_ group sometime between GULF and FRIDAY,
resulting in the "self-styled supermen's" move from Earth to the planet
Olympia.)
And - in both GULF and CHILDREN - one wonders what happened to members
of the genetically gifted group who could not, for whatever reason,
participate in the spread-your-genes/improve-the-breed endeavor.
If Kettle-Belly warmly praises the intellectually superior
mother of "genius-plus kids," what words would he have had anent an
equally intelligent woman (or man) unable despite all efforts to
produce *any* kids? (Since the _Homo_novus_ orgainization gives top
priority to increasing the numbers of _Homo_novus_, I wonder whether
possibly Baldwin might simply not invite a known-infertile _Homo_novus_
[or _mulier_nova_] to join.)
If the Howards (like every other human group) included a few
people who for some reason could not bear or beget children, one
wonders whether they did not become bitter over the long years of
seeing their fertile brethren (and sistren) regularly "ring the cash
register" with birth after birth after birth. (And does the "cash
register" ring for inmates of the Howard Sanctuary for Defectives,
should they manage to reproduce with one another? I suspect not - did
the Howards sterilize Sanctuary inmates, perhaps, or did they find some
other way to avoid the possibility that Foundation funds would end up
supporting the centuries-long-lived children of long-lived imbeciles?)
Even Heinlein fantasy (such as GLORY ROAD) and juvenile works (such as
THE STAR BEAST) touch on gene-selection if only mildly (GLORY ROAD's
Star comes from a genetically selected group of candidates for
rulership - as does STAR BEAST's Lummox: something of a surprise in
juvenile literature, given that (in USA culture, at least) fiction for
children seldom if ever mentions genes, genetics, or notions of
superior genes. Our culture taboos teaching kids about genetics even
more stringently than it has ever tabooed teaching kids about sex:
aside from works by RAH, in the general run of fictional (or even
non-fictional) writing for children you will find fifty mentions of sex
before you find even one mention of genes.)
What do you think about genetic selection and Heinlein's approach to
the subject? Many RAH characters notoriously preached and/or practiced
"eugenics" in some form (e.g., Lazarus Long in TIME ENOUGH FOR LOVE
argued for letting genetic "monsters" and "defectives" die at birth),
but at least one RAH character (Waldo - the only one whose name has
become an English word) certainly qualified as a "defective" because of
his congenital medical condition, _myasthenia_gravis_. (Had Lazarus
Long, MD, assisted at Waldo's mother's lying-in, we would presumably
have gone short one RAH novel - because I can't imagine Lazarus
desisting from helping the mother to stop and help spank into life a
baby who obviously had something seriously wrong with him. Yet killing
Waldo would have killed a potentially very high-achieving person indeed
- besides, RAH went on record more than once as stating that the
less-than-able-bodied could and should have useful, satisfying, and
productive lives - how seriously, then, can we take his exhortations
through Lazarus against exerting efforts to save the "unfit"? Did
Lazarus (or similarly gung-ho "eugenicist" characters") represent the
whole of RAH's views, or only one side of those views?
I await your answers, speculations, and cogitations on the topic.
---------------------------
Suggested reading for this chat: _Beyond This Horizon_, _Methusela's
Children_, Time Enough for Love_, _Friday_, and "Gulf". And I'll see you
all on Thursday Dec. 4 at 8 p.m.(Central) and Saturday Dec. 6 at 4 p.m.
(Central).
--
Oscagne, High Priest of Skeptics and Cynics
wanna read a story? http://users.ev1.net/~mcgrew/mss
or see my goofy website? http://users.ev1.net/~mcgrew/webpage/home.htm
The next Heinlein Readers Group chats will be:
"Genetic Selection in Heinlein" on
Thursday, December 4 at 8:00 p.m. central and
Saturday, December 6 at 4:00 p.m. central.
See http://heinleinsociety.org/Archives/ReadersGrp/index.html#Info
to participate.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23147
From: David Wright"
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 20:02:50 -0500
Subject: Re: RAH-AIM Readers Group chat meeting--"Genetic Selection in Heinlein" -- Dec. 4,6.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
sff.people.robert-a-heinlein
"Oscagne" <Oscagne@ev1.net> wrote in message news:3fbd56d0.0@news.sff.net...
> Howdy, all you sff'ers,
(snip)
> Saturday, December 6 at 4:00 p.m. central.
> See http://heinleinsociety.org/Archives/ReadersGrp/index.html#Info
> to participate.
Correction: the above URL has been changed to:
http://heinleinsociety.org/readersgroup/index.html#Info
--
David Wright
http://heinleinsociety.org
http://heinlein100.org
http://home.alltel.net/dwrighsr/
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23148
From: JT
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 20:43:50 -0500
Subject: Re: RAH-AIM Readers Group chat meeting--"Genetic Selection in Heinlein" -- Dec. 4,6.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:03:48 -0600, "Oscagne" <Oscagne@ev1.net> wrote:
>Howdy, all you sff'ers,
>
>Some of you folks know me, but for others: My name is Joe McGrew and I'm
>the Heinlein Reader's Group Sub-committee chair for the Heinlein Society.
Hi Oscagne! Thanks for remembering this lil corner of the Internet.
I suspect I won't have much to say about anything until FU,TL comes
out. ;)
You are welcome to stay a while and start any kind of discussion here.
It's much the same flavor as a.f.h but much much much less traffic.
best,
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23149
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:58:11 GMT
Subject: Heinlein Society Libraries Program
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Hi everyone--
The Libraries Program page at the Heinlein Society website is newly
revised. You can purchase books via links there for direct donations
to public libraries on behalf of the Heinlein Society, or make
contributions--or join in and help with the program.
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
If you have your own website... go to the bottom of the Libraries
page and see the html code for putting a Heinlein Society Amazon.com
link on your site. The Heinlein Society will earn commissions for
sales made through the link. I tested the code and link out on one of
my websites but I'd really like feedback from you-all here on how well
the code and copying works (plus, of course, I'd like you to put the
link in your pages for the sake of the Heinlein Society).
There's a neat upcoming addition to the Heinlein Society website...
a photographic tour of Bonny Doon.
Deb
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
http://www.robertaheinlein.com
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.heinleinprize.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23150
From: David Wright"
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:22:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Heinlein Society Libraries Program
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Deb Houdek Rule" <debrule@dahoudek.com> wrote in message
news:3fbdd1e8.177438382@NEWS.SFF.NET...
> Hi everyone--
>
> The Libraries Program page at the Heinlein Society website is newly
> revised. You can purchase books via links there for direct donations
> to public libraries on behalf of the Heinlein Society, or make
> contributions--or join in and help with the program.
>
> http://www.heinleinsociety.org
>
> If you have your own website... go to the bottom of the Libraries
> page and see the html code for putting a Heinlein Society Amazon.com
> link on your site. The Heinlein Society will earn commissions for
> sales made through the link. I tested the code and link out on one of
> my websites but I'd really like feedback from you-all here on how well
> the code and copying works (plus, of course, I'd like you to put the
> link in your pages for the sake of the Heinlein Society).
>
> There's a neat upcoming addition to the Heinlein Society website...
> a photographic tour of Bonny Doon.
>
Deb. I cut, copied and pasted it to several of my Heinlein pages (See URL
below). Seems to work well. I'll be ordering FUTL through it in the next
week probably.
--
David Wright
http://home.alltel.net/dwrighsr/heinlein.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23151
From: Filksinger"
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 01:36:01 -0800
Subject: Robotic Actress!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Known as the "Actroid".
http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=picture&id=1041
Unfortunately, only one picture and no video. Too bad.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23152
From: Randalt"
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 05:46:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Robotic Actress!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:3fbf2f2d.0@news.sff.net...
> Known as the "Actroid".
>
> http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=picture&id=1041
>
> Unfortunately, only one picture and no video. Too bad.
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
>
>
Funny, I scrolled down past the picture, looking for the "robot picture"
before I realized it was one of the two figures. I was expecting something
more like Marilyn Monroe! That's a stereotype for you.
-R
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23153
From: Randalt"
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 05:53:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Robotic Actress!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Randalt" <randalt@sff.net> wrote in message news:3fbf3e71.0@news.sff.net...
> Funny, I scrolled down past the picture, looking for the "robot picture"
> before I realized it was one of the two figures. I was expecting something
> more like Marilyn Monroe! That's a stereotype for you.
>
> -R
>
Another pic at a trade show, sommat creepy:
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20031119-01542302-jijp-dom.view-001
-R.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23154
From: Robert Slater"
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:42:08 -0800
Subject: Tablet PCs
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Hey folks,
I'm doing research on Tablet PCs for a class I'm taking. Anyone own one or
had a chance to use one? I'm curious especially about the Handwriting
Recognition. I measure everything against the Apple Newton's handwriting
recognition and it reads my barely legible scrawls.
Rob
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23155
From: JT
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:27:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Tablet PCs
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:42:08 -0800, "Robert Slater"
<rslater215@comcast.net> wrote:
>Hey folks,
>I'm doing research on Tablet PCs for a class I'm taking. Anyone own one or
>had a chance to use one? I'm curious especially about the Handwriting
>Recognition. I measure everything against the Apple Newton's handwriting
>recognition and it reads my barely legible scrawls.
>Rob
>
I've only seen them at live demos, never actually handled one myself.
The recognition looked pretty good from the demo, supposedly very
little "training" needed. I think the real killer piece of the OS is
that the written notes integrate as data objects *without* necessarily
having to go through OCR. If the "sheet of paper" doesn't have to go
through indexing, leave it alone. That's gotta save time/CPU.
Bytor or JP would be your best contacts for any kind of use; somehow I
bet if it were possible bytor's had one for a year already ;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23156
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 01:19:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Tablet PCs
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Robert Slater" <rslater215@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3fbfd855.0@news.sff.net...
> Hey folks,
> I'm doing research on Tablet PCs for a class I'm taking.
I've been looking at Tablet PCs for a while myself, as a possible new
laptop. The cost has been the issue for me, as compared to a regular laptop.
Reviews of the handwriting recognition have not been that good:
"you could try and use the tablet's handwriting recognition software, which,
while better than anything that came before it, still works poorly for many
people."
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/windowsxp_tabletpc.asp
They are also critical of the Journal app, which does NOT do recognition,
just records what you write:
"Generally, the system's handwriting recognition gets a "not bad, but not
good enough" rating -- it didn't turn our scrawl into a hopeless jumble, but
its errors were plentiful enough to make us reach for the keyboard despite
many painstaking, good-faith efforts to work in longhand. "
http://www.hardwarecentral.com/hardwarecentral/reviews/4650/1/
I'm not terribly interested in writing by hand, what worries me is how well
it works for filling in forms, say when you are web-surfing and want to
enter info:
"Through testing we actually found the handwriting method of input to be
faster and fairly error free. In fact, we only really ended up using the
keyboard when entering passwords, as the handwriting recognition tends to
have problems converting a random string of letters and numbers into correct
text (since it tries to pick a known word out of its dictionary first)."
http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.html?i=1761&p=1
These are some of the reviews, new and old, that I have been perusing. If
someone actually made a tablet PC with a built-in DVD, I would give it a
good hard look. But so far they are all external.
I have considered one of the older Transmeta processor-based units, as the
price of these on ebay has dropped quite a bit lately. If I did buy one, I
would get one of the convertible units, that has a detachable keyboard.
I'm off to Google this subject again, see what else pops up.
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23157
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 01:37:03 -0500
Subject: Puddin' is back! (sort of)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
So there I was reading Artemis magazine www.lrcpubs.com/artemismagazine.html
when I came across a story called "Jigsaw-Bubblegum" by Cat Darensbourg. I
almost thought I was reading one of Heinlein's Puddin' stories. Reesie Robin
is her name, she has a pain-in-the-neck older brother name of Jeff, and they
live half the year on a private space habitat. (The other half on Earth,
don't want to adapt completely!)
Except for the fact that the POV is Jeff instead of the girl, it could fit
right into the Puddin' vein. I highly recommend you check out this story,
and Artemis magazine in general. While the fiction content is a little
lighter than, say, Absolute Magnitude (a mag of similar size, etc.) it's a
pretty good read. And you have to like their ultimate goal: private
exploration of space, specifically a return to the Moon.
For you writers, Lawrence Schoen's "Quantam Pen" is another in-joke about
the writing process.
Oh, and Spider Robinson has a column on Columbia.
The only serious flaw in this issue, is that it seems like it should have
come out this summer, instead of as a Winter issue. There are several dated
references in a couple of articles. Still it is good to see Artemis back in
print.
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23158
From: JT
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:41:25 -0500
Subject: Happy Thanksgiving!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I know I'm a little early, but since I'm travelling early, too, I
wanted to say Happy Turkey Day to all of you.
And in the spirit of HF Food threads past, please tell us what the
menu of your celebration will be (or at least the highlights ;)
Our challenge will be having one thing on the table that Daniel will
eat...a real stumper because his tastes are changing weekly. ;)
Menu: since we're guests, I know we're bringing a vegetable, probably
a winter squash dish. I know there will be a roast turkey. My
brother is bringing pumpkin pie. I know nothing else. :(
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23159
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:53:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT: My contribution to dinner will bein the form of a hors
d'oeuvre: hot crab dip. (Oven warmed; not spicy 'hot'.) I have made
this recipe once recently and it was enjoyed by all who sampled it.
I will probably bring some wine to go with Turkey-Day dinner. Main
course will be roast turkey and ancillary items too numerous to
imagine.
If anyone wants the dip recipe, let me know.
Ed J
JT: How far are you traveling? My travel time should be less than
2 hr 20 min. (this trip once took over 3 hours as I ran into
rush-hour traffic as I passed west of NYC).
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:41:25 -0500, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
>I know I'm a little early, but since I'm travelling early, too, I
>wanted to say Happy Turkey Day to all of you.
>
>And in the spirit of HF Food threads past, please tell us what the
>menu of your celebration will be (or at least the highlights ;)
>
>Our challenge will be having one thing on the table that Daniel will
>eat...a real stumper because his tastes are changing weekly. ;)
>
>Menu: since we're guests, I know we're bringing a vegetable, probably
>a winter squash dish. I know there will be a roast turkey. My
>brother is bringing pumpkin pie. I know nothing else. :(
>
>JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23160
From: gunner"
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:54:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
and a happy thanksgiving to you and all on board. as for the menu here,
since our nest is pretty much empty we've settled on rock cornish game hens
instead of a turkey and endless leftovers. the game hens are easier to cook
and have a better flavour too in my opinion. the rest of the fixings will be
pretty much standard, taters and gravy, peas and pearl onions, squash,
cranberry sauce, and apple pie and coffee later after dinner has settled a
bit
"gunner"
---------------------------
"JT" <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote in message
news:q295svcpdsmahl7khl58uittrg11ij0stg@4ax.com...
> I know I'm a little early, but since I'm travelling early, too, I
> wanted to say Happy Turkey Day to all of you.
>
> And in the spirit of HF Food threads past, please tell us what the
> menu of your celebration will be (or at least the highlights ;)
>
> Our challenge will be having one thing on the table that Daniel will
> eat...a real stumper because his tastes are changing weekly. ;)
>
> Menu: since we're guests, I know we're bringing a vegetable, probably
> a winter squash dish. I know there will be a roast turkey. My
> brother is bringing pumpkin pie. I know nothing else. :(
>
> JT
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23161
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:08:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"JT" <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote in message
news:q295svcpdsmahl7khl58uittrg11ij0stg@4ax.com...
> I know I'm a little early, but since I'm travelling early, too, I
> wanted to say Happy Turkey Day to all of you.
>
> And in the spirit of HF Food threads past, please tell us what the
> menu of your celebration will be (or at least the highlights ;)
Stouffers. Nothing comes closer to home. Taste that microwave flavor! <g>
As I'll be working Turkey Day, I won't eat until I get home, probably near
midnight. But I will come home and fix some turkey and spuds, cranberry
sauce, and toss a Mrs. Smith's pumpkin pie in the oven. Just call me Jett.
WJaKe
Bonus points if you get the cinematic reference.
Double bonus points for Jim Hardy.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23162
From: cdozo
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:33:42 -0600
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
My son and I travelling from Austin, TX to Brooklyn, NY to spend
Thanksgiving with my sister and her family. We're flying out on
Wednesday morning, but we're starting out tonight with a mini-vacation
at the Austin Comfort Suites. The have a hot tub, cartoon network,
free breakfast and it's just a ten minute ride to the airport. Plus
all the last minute things at the house will be done, so there will be
less stress Wednesday morning.
The only food I'm bringing is some chocolate covereed almonds for my
sister. I'll give them to her in secret, because the last time I
brought her some, her husband passed them around to the dinner guests.
Happy Turkey Day to all, Carol
==============
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:41:25 -0500, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
>I know I'm a little early, but since I'm travelling early, too, I
>wanted to say Happy Turkey Day to all of you.
>
>And in the spirit of HF Food threads past, please tell us what the
>menu of your celebration will be (or at least the highlights ;)
>
>Our challenge will be having one thing on the table that Daniel will
>eat...a real stumper because his tastes are changing weekly. ;)
>
>Menu: since we're guests, I know we're bringing a vegetable, probably
>a winter squash dish. I know there will be a roast turkey. My
>brother is bringing pumpkin pie. I know nothing else. :(
>
>JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23163
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:31:32 -0600
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
As the founder of that thread. A Joyous Thanksgiving to all.
Kevin
JT wrote:
> I know I'm a little early, but since I'm travelling early, too, I
> wanted to say Happy Turkey Day to all of you.
>
> And in the spirit of HF Food threads past, please tell us what the
> menu of your celebration will be (or at least the highlights ;)
>
> Our challenge will be having one thing on the table that Daniel will
> eat...a real stumper because his tastes are changing weekly. ;)
>
> Menu: since we're guests, I know we're bringing a vegetable, probably
> a winter squash dish. I know there will be a roast turkey. My
> brother is bringing pumpkin pie. I know nothing else. :(
>
> JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23164
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:01:10 GMT
Subject: Advanced copy of For Us, the Living
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
A chance to win an advanced copy of For Us, the Living on the
Heinlein Society site...
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
http://www.robertaheinlein.com
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.heinleinprize.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23165
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:01:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
We're going to Geo's g'ma and aunt (not far away). Last time they
made Thanksgiving dinner the now famous greeting was heard:
"Everything was okay the _first_ time the turkey caught fire!"
I think I convinced them to buy a pre-made meal from the grocery
store and not attempt cooking.
Deb
>And in the spirit of HF Food threads past, please tell us what the
>menu of your celebration will be (or at least the highlights ;)
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
http://www.robertaheinlein.com
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.heinleinprize.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23166
From: Lynn Calvin
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 23:00:09 -0600
Subject: Re: Advanced copy of For Us, the Living
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
As of 11PM the site returns:
This site has been suspended by a ReadyHosting.com
network administrator.
If you are the owner of this domain, please open a My Website has been
Suspended Support Ticket for further information. Please include the
domain name which has been suspended.
If you are a visitor, please visit this site again later.
debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule) wrote:
>
> A chance to win an advanced copy of For Us, the Living on the
>Heinlein Society site...
>
> http://www.heinleinsociety.org
>
>
>http://www.dahoudek.com
>http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
>http://www.robertaheinlein.com
>http://www.heinleinsociety.org
>http://www.heinleinprize.com
--
Lynn Calvin
lcalvin@interaccess.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23167
From: fader55@delete.sbcglobal.net (Fader)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:02:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:41:25 -0500, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
>I know I'm a little early, but since I'm travelling early, too, I
>wanted to say Happy Turkey Day to all of you.
>
>And in the spirit of HF Food threads past, please tell us what the
>menu of your celebration will be (or at least the highlights ;)
>
Happy Bird Day to everybody.
Made this last night in hopes of being somewhat ahead (ha), not sure
what to call it, sorta cranberry sauce.
Fader's Fruit for Thanksgiving
2 bags of cranberries
2 oranges ( zested & juiced)
2 cups apple cider
1 cup brown sugar ( I mixed dark/light)
2 apples chopped ( not too finely)
Put everything in a pot (except apples) & bring to a boil, simmer till
all/most of the cranberries have popped (10-15 min), at this point I
ran it through a food mill ( don't like skins), but I imagine that
this is optional, return to pot, add apples & heat till the apples
start to soften, stir alot during this step, it's very thick & could
sorch. Let cool then refridgerate. enjoy.
Fader
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23168
From: Filksinger"
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 00:59:05 -0800
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Fader wrote:
<snip>
> Happy Bird Day to everybody.
>
> Made this last night in hopes of being somewhat ahead (ha), not sure
> what to call it, sorta cranberry sauce.
>
> Fader's Fruit for Thanksgiving
<snip recipe>
In response, detailed instructions on how to make the outside of your turkey
golden brown, while the inside is done, with even the breasts moist and
juicy. What else you do to it is up to you.
For this method, you must have a _real_ meat thermometer. Do not use those
little pop-up things. They will _not_ work for this method. It is also very
important that the entire bird be quite thoroughly thawed out, but it should
never had any part of it at more than 140 degrees Farenheit.
First, preheat the oven well to 500 degrees Farenheit.
Wash bird in cold water. Dry bird. _DO NOT STUFF_.
Oil the outside of the turkey. A neutral oil like canola is actually
recommended, but, as I said, the flavoring is up to you.
Put the turkey on a rack (V-shaped is best) breast-side up, with the wings
tucked under, then inside a roasting pan with no lid. A large rectangular
cake pan will do, if that's what you have.
Now, create a shield for the breast meat. This should be a tight-fitting
piece of foil covering the breasts _only_. If you are worried about the
wings not being protected well enough to avoid burning, you can cover them,
too.
Remove the foil and save it, retaining the shape.
Cook for 30 minutes.
Take the turkey out of the oven. Turn the temperature to 350 degrees
Farenheit. Put the foil breastplate and wing guards on the turkey. Put your
meat thermometer right through the foil into the thickest part of the
breast. Do not touch the bone.
Put back in oven.
For a 16 lb bird, it will usually take 1 1/2 to 2 more hours to cook. Take
it out when the bird reaches 161 degrees Farenheit.
Yes, one hundred sixty one degrees. I know it is supposed to be 180 for a
turkey, but 161 is correct.
Turkey breast meat is usually overdone because the thighs take extra time.
Stuffing also takes extra time, because the stuffing keeps the inside cold,
and the juices from the turkey force the stuffing to require 161 degrees,
too. All of this normally forces the breasts to be at about 180-185 before
everything else is done. Thus, the breasts are overdone and dessicated.
By covering the breasts and avoiding stuffing, you can cook your turkey much
faster, to a lower breast temperature, and, by using the 500 degrees for
half-an-hour routine, you will get a golden brown turkey.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23169
From: Filksinger"
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 01:05:43 -0800
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Oh, one correction. Stuffing the bird with small, loosely tied bag of
aromatics, like onions and apples, which nobody is eating anyway, should be
all right. It is masses of soggy bread that must be avoided.
Filksinger wrote:
> Fader wrote:
> <snip>
> > Happy Bird Day to everybody.
> >
> > Made this last night in hopes of being somewhat ahead (ha), not sure
> > what to call it, sorta cranberry sauce.
> >
> > Fader's Fruit for Thanksgiving
> <snip recipe>
>
> In response, detailed instructions on how to make the outside of your
> turkey golden brown, while the inside is done, with even the breasts
> moist and juicy. What else you do to it is up to you.
>
> For this method, you must have a _real_ meat thermometer. Do not use
> those little pop-up things. They will _not_ work for this method. It
> is also very important that the entire bird be quite thoroughly
> thawed out, but it should never had any part of it at more than 140
> degrees Farenheit.
>
> First, preheat the oven well to 500 degrees Farenheit.
>
> Wash bird in cold water. Dry bird. _DO NOT STUFF_.
>
> Oil the outside of the turkey. A neutral oil like canola is actually
> recommended, but, as I said, the flavoring is up to you.
>
> Put the turkey on a rack (V-shaped is best) breast-side up, with the
> wings tucked under, then inside a roasting pan with no lid. A large
> rectangular cake pan will do, if that's what you have.
>
> Now, create a shield for the breast meat. This should be a
> tight-fitting piece of foil covering the breasts _only_. If you are
> worried about the wings not being protected well enough to avoid
> burning, you can cover them, too.
>
> Remove the foil and save it, retaining the shape.
>
> Cook for 30 minutes.
>
> Take the turkey out of the oven. Turn the temperature to 350 degrees
> Farenheit. Put the foil breastplate and wing guards on the turkey.
> Put your meat thermometer right through the foil into the thickest
> part of the breast. Do not touch the bone.
>
> Put back in oven.
>
> For a 16 lb bird, it will usually take 1 1/2 to 2 more hours to cook.
> Take it out when the bird reaches 161 degrees Farenheit.
>
> Yes, one hundred sixty one degrees. I know it is supposed to be 180
> for a turkey, but 161 is correct.
>
> Turkey breast meat is usually overdone because the thighs take extra
> time. Stuffing also takes extra time, because the stuffing keeps the
> inside cold, and the juices from the turkey force the stuffing to
> require 161 degrees, too. All of this normally forces the breasts to
> be at about 180-185 before everything else is done. Thus, the breasts
> are overdone and dessicated.
>
> By covering the breasts and avoiding stuffing, you can cook your
> turkey much faster, to a lower breast temperature, and, by using the
> 500 degrees for half-an-hour routine, you will get a golden brown
> turkey.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23170
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:15:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
gunner:
If apple pie is offered, it will be the first slice of any pie
that I have had since starting 'Atkins' back in June.
I can't wait <g>.
Ed J
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:54:48 -0500, "gunner" <gunnera4@sover.net>
wrote:
>and a happy thanksgiving to you and all on board. as for the menu here,
>since our nest is pretty much empty we've settled on rock cornish game hens
>instead of a turkey and endless leftovers. the game hens are easier to cook
>and have a better flavour too in my opinion. the rest of the fixings will be
>pretty much standard, taters and gravy, peas and pearl onions, squash,
>cranberry sauce, and apple pie and coffee later after dinner has settled a
>bit
>"gunner"
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23171
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:24:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger: It all sounds good to me <g>. Your suggestion reminded
me of a dinner long ago.
I once had roast goose for Christmas. My roommate in the USAF was a
hunter and a gourmet cook. He bagged the bird and roasted it
stuffed with apples and onions which he discarded after cooking.
He said that it took away the oils and the 'gamey' taste from the
wild bird. Three of us shared that bird and it tasted great to one
and all!
Ed J
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 01:05:43 -0800, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>Oh, one correction. Stuffing the bird with small, loosely tied bag of
>aromatics, like onions and apples, which nobody is eating anyway, should be
>all right. It is masses of soggy bread that must be avoided.
>
in
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23172
From: Filksinger"
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:21:17 -0800
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Thanks.
The entire recipe I got that from is one that I expect to be delicious, but
have never quite had the opportunity to do. The problem is two-fold. It
takes time to brine a bird, and brining doesn't work if the bird is
pre-basted. I have found that, these days, birds not pre-basted typically
will be "natural" birds, which doubles the price.
Since I shop for the deals, I end up with the wrong birds, and the price I
pay is 1/5th the "natural" bird's price, but I can't brine. Given the amount
of work, this is generally partially deliberate.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
Ed Johnson wrote:
> Filksinger: It all sounds good to me <g>. Your suggestion reminded
> me of a dinner long ago.
> I once had roast goose for Christmas. My roommate in the USAF was a
> hunter and a gourmet cook. He bagged the bird and roasted it
> stuffed with apples and onions which he discarded after cooking.
> He said that it took away the oils and the 'gamey' taste from the
> wild bird. Three of us shared that bird and it tasted great to one
> and all!
>
> Ed J
> On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 01:05:43 -0800, "Filksinger"
> <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>
> > Oh, one correction. Stuffing the bird with small, loosely tied bag
> > of aromatics, like onions and apples, which nobody is eating
> > anyway, should be all right. It is masses of soggy bread that must
> > be avoided.
> >
> in
------------------------------------------------------------
============================================================
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