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Archive of:   sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Archive desc: The Internet home for the Heinlein Forum
Archived by:  webnews@sff.net
Archive date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 14:28:36
============================================================

Article 22619
From: C. H. Cardozo" 
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:28:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum



Ed Johnson wrote:

> -------- In the movie "War Games" the protagonist is using a 300
> baud acoustic modem.  What a dinosaur!  That was before my Internet
> usage.  Anyone here use one of those for communications from home?
>
> Ed J

I used to test acoustic modems at a computer store where I worked. It was
fun to try to run them by whistling into the part that went over the
phone.  Those modems seemed _so_ high tech!  I couldn't imagine why anyone
would ever want one.

Carol


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22620
From: William J. Keaton" 
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:29:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Ginny's Passing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"James R. Cunningham" <jrccea@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3F1AE477.C94B1C28@bellsouth.net...
> Yes, we support the needs of the Butler library and the addition to it
> that Ginny built a little over ten years ago.
>

A lovely little library, I enjoyed my visit there back in 93. The staff was
very nice when a mob of Heinlein fans descended on their quiet town. (One of
us even got interviewed on the radio. Might not have happened, had they
known of my impending maritime misdeeds.)

BTW, let me congratulate you on being named the Heinlein Scholar at the UC
Santa Cruz. Good Luck and happy hunting through the accumulated Heinleinia!

WJaKe

P.S. See you in Toronto, I presume?



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22621
From: Audrey Gifford 
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:28:28 -0700
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Wow - lots of oldtimers. I haven't been the "teacher from Lodi" in quite 
a while - Heinlein Forum is one of the reasons I ended up doing what I 
do - so I could quit bitching about all the hassles the administration 
gave us and get out and do it right, for the sake of the kids.

So now we have 6 kids, (2 off to colege now), a business for intensive 
autism services with 45-50 clients, close to 100 employees, and most 
importantly, 7 recoveries and counting......


sbeck1@prodigy.net wrote:
>>Any old cobbers here beside WJAKE and JT? Deb and Geo -
> 
> 
> Hi, Audrey. (This is Audrey the teacher from Lodi, right?) 
> 
> This is Steve from the orginal Prodigy HF. I just rediscovered this place,
> and will pop in from time to time.
> 
> -- Steve Beck


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22622
From: Audrey Gifford 
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:33:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

you realize, of course, that kids don't know what life without the net 
is like - that it never occurs to them to go to a library for research - 
you get your access codes to the college libraries and do all your 
research that way? They don't know what records are, typewriters, 
(didn't recognize the "ching" at the end of the line) the concept of 
waiting for something on TV - VCRs have been around since young adults 
were born) and even the 3 year olds know what a printer is.

I remember how everyone crowed about their 9600 modems....

Ed Johnson wrote:
> JT:   Yeah, 2400 baud modems.  Do you remember when Plodigy charged
> extra for connecting at the unheard-of speed of 9600?  The Rats!
>      Ugly, monochrome text messages; still: we managed to keep in
> touch.
> The late `80's and early `90's were truly the 'dark ages' of
> Internet communications.  
> -------- In the movie "War Games" the protagonist is using a 300
> baud acoustic modem.  What a dinosaur!  That was before my Internet
> usage.  Anyone here use one of those for communications from home?
> 
> Ed J
> 
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 10:12:31 -0400, JT <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>>"Eh, Sonny, I remember back in the mid-90s, mind you, this was before
>>your newfangled Internet, we had to dial into servers and post text
>>messages!  And this was at 2400 bps, uphill both ways!  And we were
>>GLAD for it."
>>
>><g,d, &r!>
>>
>>JT
> 
> 


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22623
From: Eli Hestermann 
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 06:03:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Ed Johnson wrote:

> -------- In the movie "War Games" the protagonist is using a 300
> baud acoustic modem.  What a dinosaur!  That was before my Internet
> usage.  Anyone here use one of those for communications from home?

I remember when a friend of mine first got his 300 baud modem, and we
stayed up all night dialing in to the BBS services all over town. The only
problem was that some of those services didn't have a dedicated phone line
- you had to call first and let the sysop know you wanted to log in. We
didn't know which services were which, so some unhappy people were
awakened at 3 AM by the phone, only to get a carrier in their ears when
they answered.


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22624
From: James R. Cunningham" 
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 04:43:58 -0700
Subject: Re: Ginny's Passing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

William J. Keaton wrote:

> BTW, let me congratulate you on being named the Heinlein Scholar at the UC
> Santa Cruz. Good Luck and happy hunting through the accumulated Heinleinia!

That was Bill Patterson, not me.  Bill is quite knowledgable about all
things Heinlein.  My wife and I were just buddies with Ginny and not all
that much into all the SF stuff.

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22625
From: William J. Keaton" 
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:00:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Ginny's Passing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"James R. Cunningham" <jrccea@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3F1BD1FE.FDDF4254@bellsouth.net...
> William J. Keaton wrote:
>
> > BTW, let me congratulate you on being named the Heinlein Scholar at the
UC
> > Santa Cruz. Good Luck and happy hunting through the accumulated
Heinleinia!
>
> That was Bill Patterson, not me.  Bill is quite knowledgable about all
> things Heinlein.  My wife and I were just buddies with Ginny and not all
> that much into all the SF stuff.

Doggone it! I just read the article last week in both Locus and the Heinlein
Society newsletter! I gotta start reading news at a more decent hour of the
night!

My apologies for the confusion, and if Bill Patterson pops in here I will
most definetly express my congratulations to the right man!

Sigh....

WJaKe



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22626
From: William J. Keaton" 
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:10:50 -0400
Subject: In case I confused anyone....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Because I'm suffering from CRS, and I don't think anyone's posted it here
yet, and I managed to confuse the whole issue in my late-night post last
night:

Let me be the first here to (correctly) congratulate Bill Patterson on being
named the Heinlein Scholar at the UC Santa Cruz! I read the announcement in
both Locus and the Heinlein Society newsletter last week. (and yet I still
managed to confuse Bill with Jim Cunningham last night!)

So, can anyone say what kind of public projects we might see coming out of
the Heinlein Collection at UCSC? I did see mention of an authorized
biography, and I'm wondering what is meant by the "Finding Aid describing
the contents" that will someday be available online. Just a description, or
any access to those contents?

Hope to hear more...

WJaKe



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22627
From: David Wright" 
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:20:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"James Hunt" <jhunt1@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
news:3f185661.0@news.sff.net...
>
>
> Audrey Gifford wrote:
>
> >
> > Any old cobbers here beside WJAKE and JT? Deb and Geo -
>
> I'm here--back in the shadows.  (GemStone  AKA James Stone Hunt)
> I don't often speak as others usually say it first and better.  I would
> like to throw in a very basic question which is something completely
> different:  Do we live in a totally digital universe?  When I say
> totally, I really mean it.  Are such things as time and location quanta?
>   If so, is there any way to find out?  If it is digital, is this
> universe just a program running in God's computer?  Would anyone care to
> take a crack at this?  To tie this to Heinlein, I remember in his *Gulf*
> in 1949 he had already thought of this: "You are now studying the
> extension of the quantum concept to all features of the continuum.  You
> know the chronon, the mensum, and the viton as quanta, as well as the
> action units of quanta such as the photon.  The continuum has not only
> structure but texture in all its features.  The least unit of thought we
> term the psychon."
> By the way, I am 71 years old.  Is there anyone here who is older?  Does
> this make me The Senior?
>

I thought I was among the eldest, (I'm 63), but you make me feel like a
youngster ;-)
Welcome back.

-- 
David Wright
http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/index.html
http://heinleinsociety.org

Help us prepare for the upcoming Centennial of the birthday of Robert A.
Heinlein
http://heinlein100.org

Anytime is a good time to join us in The Heinlein Society
http://heinleinsociety.org/membership.html
http://heinleinsociety.org/join.html





------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22628
From: Filksinger" 
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:25:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Oh, yes. I still remember seeing that list going around for college
teachers, reminding them of the gap between them and the freshmen. They
listed the things that either were always true for the new students, like
Elvis being dead, or probably never being true, like phones having actual
dials.

Makes me feel older every year.
-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined

Audrey Gifford wrote:
> you realize, of course, that kids don't know what life without the net
> is like - that it never occurs to them to go to a library for
> research - you get your access codes to the college libraries and do
> all your research that way? They don't know what records are,
> typewriters, (didn't recognize the "ching" at the end of the line)
> the concept of waiting for something on TV - VCRs have been around
> since young adults were born) and even the 3 year olds know what a
> printer is.
>
> I remember how everyone crowed about their 9600 modems....
>
> Ed Johnson wrote:
>> JT:   Yeah, 2400 baud modems.  Do you remember when Plodigy charged
>> extra for connecting at the unheard-of speed of 9600?  The Rats!
>>      Ugly, monochrome text messages; still: we managed to keep in
>> touch.
>> The late `80's and early `90's were truly the 'dark ages' of
>> Internet communications.
>> -------- In the movie "War Games" the protagonist is using a 300
>> baud acoustic modem.  What a dinosaur!  That was before my Internet
>> usage.  Anyone here use one of those for communications from home?
>>
>> Ed J
>>
>> On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 10:12:31 -0400, JT <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> "Eh, Sonny, I remember back in the mid-90s, mind you, this was
>>> before your newfangled Internet, we had to dial into servers and
>>> post text messages!  And this was at 2400 bps, uphill both ways!
>>> And we were GLAD for it."
>>>
>>> <g,d, &r!>
>>>
>>> JT



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22629
From: Francesco Spreafico" 
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:36:40 +0200
Subject: For Us, the Living
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Here's what I found on the Locus online site:

http://www.locusmag.com/2003/News/News07Log4.html#18jul

"For Us, the Living, the first novel Robert A. Heinlein wrote, has been sold
to Scribner's and Pocket Books. All copies of the novel, which is believed
to have been written between late 1938 and April 1939, were thought to have
been lost or destroyed, but a copy was located recently and passed on to the
Heinlein Society, which turned it over to Heinlein's literary estate, and
which subsequently sold at auction. No publication date has yet been
announced."

I just can't wait!

-- 
Francesco
http://www.dimensionedelta.net/heinlein/



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22630
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:01:42 GMT
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


>    No one has heard from Bruce in quite some time.  I'd guess that
>if there are no other challengers, you would be the Senior.
>  BTW:  Has anyone heard from Rosie Postelnek or Bill Dailey?

  Bill isn't doing much online but I talk to him by phone or email now
and then. Still in KC, not to far from Jai's house, actually. 


Deb  (D.A. Houdek) 
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.robertaheinlein.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22631
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:01:08 -0400
Subject: Re: For Us, the Living
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

!!!  A Heinlein novel that no one has read?  Can this be real?

Ed J  (baited breath dept.)

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:36:40 +0200, "Francesco Spreafico"
<laz@libero.it> wrote:

>Here's what I found on the Locus online site:
>
>http://www.locusmag.com/2003/News/News07Log4.html#18jul
>
>"For Us, the Living, the first novel Robert A. Heinlein wrote, has been sold
>to Scribner's and Pocket Books. All copies of the novel, which is believed
>to have been written between late 1938 and April 1939, were thought to have
>been lost or destroyed, but a copy was located recently and passed on to the
>Heinlein Society, which turned it over to Heinlein's literary estate, and
>which subsequently sold at auction. No publication date has yet been
>announced."
>
>I just can't wait!


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22632
From: Filksinger" 
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:46:20 -0700
Subject: Re: For Us, the Living
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

The timing makes me wonder if whoever had the manuscript hid it until all
people who would have the power and willingness to burn it were dead.

-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined

Francesco Spreafico wrote:
> Here's what I found on the Locus online site:
>
> http://www.locusmag.com/2003/News/News07Log4.html#18jul
>
> "For Us, the Living, the first novel Robert A. Heinlein wrote, has
> been sold to Scribner's and Pocket Books. All copies of the novel,
> which is believed to have been written between late 1938 and April
> 1939, were thought to have been lost or destroyed, but a copy was
> located recently and passed on to the Heinlein Society, which turned
> it over to Heinlein's literary estate, and which subsequently sold at
> auction. No publication date has yet been announced."
>
> I just can't wait!



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22633
From: Charles Graft 
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:20:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Hi, All--
    Yes, I am still around and read (and collect) everything posted on
this board.  But my last few attempts to get a discussion going have
fizzled rather completely, and I really haven't seen much to reply to
other than congratulations.

     Looking back, though, makes me realize how many changes there have
been.  Prodigy did not even offer internet access back in the early days
of HF; it was a standalone.  The other big one was compuserve.  AOL was
way down the list. . .

     I used to (mid to late 70's) work with telecommunications at that
time.  Your modems you bought, or rather rented,  exclusively from the
telephone company.  At a higher rate that you buy one for nowadays.  You
think 300 baud was slow?  Try 110.  This was the data speed that could
keep up with terminal version of the IBM Selectric typewriter (the most
popular business typewriter -- and terminal -- of the time).  Video
terminals were expensive and rare, all "regular" terminals were
essentially mechanical printers operated by solenoids.  You typed in
your query; the answer printed back out on the same sheet of paper.

     The most popular modem I saw was capable of ASYNC at 300 baud or
SYNC at a bit less than 1200.  To use 2400 baud took a wired line
network (no dial up).  A pair of lines from the host to each remote was
required for full duplex.  Banks and airlines were probably the biggest
users.

     I recall an instructor expelling that it ws theoretically
impossible to use greater speeds that 1200 on a dial up line.

     The acoustic terminals came along about the mid-70's.  They were
very popular with such people as insurance agents, who would download
their client data and get back immediate (by then standards) quotes.
There are people who use then still today -- they can be attached to a
pay telephone.

    In the 60's it was illegal for a customer to hook ANYTHING to
his/her telephone line.  You rented your equipment from the telephone
company.  Period.  The big mistake (from their viewpoint) they made was
in putting in jacks to that you could move your (rented) extension to
other locations within a home.  You could also plug other things in.

     Answering machines. Something else rented from the phone company
that cost more by the month then  than it does to purchase one outright
today.  These were the days when $1.00 per pound was a bit pricey for
T-bones. .

    I started my career as an office machine repairman (customer
engineer) in 1965 -- when the only electronics in the vast majority of
offices were the dictating machine and the intercom.  I was the
dictating machine repairman. And the majority of dictating machine used
embossed plastic discs (Edison and Soundscriber) or belts
(Dictaphone).   Magnetic tape was just starting to put in an
appearance.  Adding machines, calculators, copiers (which only the
biggest offices had) and typewriters were all either mechanical or
electro-mechanical (a mechanical with an electric motor on it).  I saw
my first electronic calculator about a year later. . .

     If Bruce doesn't put in his own claim, I now claim second senior.
(Junior Senior?)  My 60th birthday is next month.

--
<<Big Charlie>>

"Seen on the door to a light-wave lab:  'Do not look into laser with
remaining good eye.'"




------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22634
From: William J. Keaton" 
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 03:41:13 -0400
Subject: Re: For Us, the Living
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:3f1cc70f.0@news.sff.net...
> The timing makes me wonder if whoever had the manuscript hid it until all
> people who would have the power and willingness to burn it were dead.
>

I doubt it. I have met some of the people who have been dealing with the
Heinlein Estate, the Archives, etc. Surely Bill Patterson or David Silver or
Jim Cunningham can confirm that the Heinlein Society was involved.

Ok guys, it's gone public! Care to comment?

Here's my question: Why is it that we Heinlein Society members always have
to get this information from other sources? Movies optioned, books sold,
people being named as Scholars, etc. (Ok, that last was in the Heinlein
Society newsletter, but I read it in Locus first.) Should there be a
mechanism in place to pass along this interesting news to the members before
we hear it elsewhere? Just a thought.

WJaKe

(Once again making the mistake of reading News at 3:00AM. Hope I don't have
things all wrong here!)



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22635
From: Francesco Spreafico" 
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:43:23 +0200
Subject: Re: For Us, the Living
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Filksinger wrote:

> The timing makes me wonder if whoever had the manuscript hid it until
> all people who would have the power and willingness to burn it were
> dead.

If there were such willingness, it really think it would have been passed on
to the Estate... for example I don't think somebody's going to publish the
so-called "stinkeroos" soon (and I add: Too bad, because they don't really
stink, or at least the one I've read, 'Beyond Doubt', doesn't at all)

Me, I'm happy to have another Heinlein novel to read. As someone said on
afh, even if it were bad (but who's already read it says it's not bad at
all) it would be an incentive to writers.

-- 
Francesco
http://www.dimensionedelta.net/heinlein/



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22636
From: Jane Davitt 
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:15:27 -0400
Subject: Re: For Us, the Living
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Filksinger wrote:

> The timing makes me wonder if whoever had the manuscript hid it until all
> people who would have the power and willingness to burn it were dead.
> 
I would guess that the person who had it was Ginny herself and she left 
instructions that once she and Mr Heinlein were both dead it could be 
published, but not before. I can't see who else would have had it and 
kept it this long without it leaking out. The official line was always 
that every copy was destroyed which seemed possible, if sad, but not all 
that likely as most authors don't like destroying words they've written, 
no matter how bad ;-)

But I'm just guessing.

Jane

-- 
Read my Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction at
http://members.rogers.com/jdavitt01/index.html
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22637
From: djinn 
Date: 22 Jul 2003 19:43:25 GMT
Subject: Re: For Us, the Living
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com> wrote in
news:3f1d550c.0@news.sff.net: 

> Filksinger wrote:
> 
>> The timing makes me wonder if whoever had the manuscript hid it until
>> all people who would have the power and willingness to burn it were
>> dead. 
>> 
> I would guess that the person who had it was Ginny herself and she
> left instructions that once she and Mr Heinlein were both dead it
> could be published, but not before. I can't see who else would have
> had it and kept it this long without it leaking out. The official line
> was always that every copy was destroyed which seemed possible, if
> sad, but not all that likely as most authors don't like destroying
> words they've written, no matter how bad ;-)
> 
> But I'm just guessing.
> 
David Silver posted about it over in afh. Bill Dennis has some info about 
it and the SST2 movie at  

http://billscontent.com/heinleinblog.htm

-- 
Better than a thousand hollow words
Is one word which brings peace     Dhammapada, 8.1

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22638
From: Jane Davitt 
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:14:03 -0400
Subject: Re: For Us, the Living
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

djinn wrote:
> Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com> wrote in
> news:3f1d550c.0@news.sff.net: 
> 
> 
>>Filksinger wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The timing makes me wonder if whoever had the manuscript hid it until
>>>all people who would have the power and willingness to burn it were
>>>dead. 
>>>
>>
>>I would guess that the person who had it was Ginny herself and she
>>left instructions that once she and Mr Heinlein were both dead it
>>could be published, but not before. I can't see who else would have
>>had it and kept it this long without it leaking out. The official line
>>was always that every copy was destroyed which seemed possible, if
>>sad, but not all that likely as most authors don't like destroying
>>words they've written, no matter how bad ;-)
>>
>>But I'm just guessing.
>>
> 
> David Silver posted about it over in afh. Bill Dennis has some info about 
> it and the SST2 movie at  
> 
> http://billscontent.com/heinleinblog.htm
> 
OK, I read those...but we still don't know where it came from? Oh, well. 
I have to say though, no matter how much you have to dump when you move 
to a smaller house, the room saved by destroying a manuscript seems 
dearly bought.

Jane

-- 
Read my Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction at
http://members.rogers.com/jdavitt01/index.html
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22639
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:19:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

BC: "Junior Senior".  I like the sound of that <G>.
Actually, IIRC, David Wright has 3 years on you to put him closer to
that title.  Doc and I are mere striplings, still in our 50's <g>.

Ed J



On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:20:55 -0500, Charles Graft
<chasgraft@aol.com> wrote:

>Hi, All--
>    Yes, I am still around and read (and collect) everything posted on
>this board.  But my last few attempts to get a discussion going have
>fizzled rather completely, and I really haven't seen much to reply to
>other than congratulations.
>
>     Looking back, though, makes me realize how many changes there have
>been.  Prodigy did not even offer internet access back in the early days
>of HF; it was a standalone.  The other big one was compuserve.  AOL was
>way down the list. . .
>
>     I used to (mid to late 70's) work with telecommunications at that
>time.  Your modems you bought, or rather rented,  exclusively from the
>telephone company.  At a higher rate that you buy one for nowadays.  You
>think 300 baud was slow?  Try 110.  This was the data speed that could
>keep up with terminal version of the IBM Selectric typewriter (the most
>popular business typewriter -- and terminal -- of the time).  Video
>terminals were expensive and rare, all "regular" terminals were
>essentially mechanical printers operated by solenoids.  You typed in
>your query; the answer printed back out on the same sheet of paper.
>
>     The most popular modem I saw was capable of ASYNC at 300 baud or
>SYNC at a bit less than 1200.  To use 2400 baud took a wired line
>network (no dial up).  A pair of lines from the host to each remote was
>required for full duplex.  Banks and airlines were probably the biggest
>users.
>
>     I recall an instructor expelling that it ws theoretically
>impossible to use greater speeds that 1200 on a dial up line.
>
>     The acoustic terminals came along about the mid-70's.  They were
>very popular with such people as insurance agents, who would download
>their client data and get back immediate (by then standards) quotes.
>There are people who use then still today -- they can be attached to a
>pay telephone.
>
>    In the 60's it was illegal for a customer to hook ANYTHING to
>his/her telephone line.  You rented your equipment from the telephone
>company.  Period.  The big mistake (from their viewpoint) they made was
>in putting in jacks to that you could move your (rented) extension to
>other locations within a home.  You could also plug other things in.
>
>     Answering machines. Something else rented from the phone company
>that cost more by the month then  than it does to purchase one outright
>today.  These were the days when $1.00 per pound was a bit pricey for
>T-bones. .
>
>    I started my career as an office machine repairman (customer
>engineer) in 1965 -- when the only electronics in the vast majority of
>offices were the dictating machine and the intercom.  I was the
>dictating machine repairman. And the majority of dictating machine used
>embossed plastic discs (Edison and Soundscriber) or belts
>(Dictaphone).   Magnetic tape was just starting to put in an
>appearance.  Adding machines, calculators, copiers (which only the
>biggest offices had) and typewriters were all either mechanical or
>electro-mechanical (a mechanical with an electric motor on it).  I saw
>my first electronic calculator about a year later. . .
>
>     If Bruce doesn't put in his own claim, I now claim second senior.
>(Junior Senior?)  My 60th birthday is next month.


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22640
From: Filksinger" 
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:41:16 -0700
Subject: Re: For Us, the Living
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Jane Davitt wrote:
> Filksinger wrote:
>
>> The timing makes me wonder if whoever had the manuscript hid it
>> until all people who would have the power and willingness to burn it
>> were dead.
>>
> I would guess that the person who had it was Ginny herself and she
> left instructions that once she and Mr Heinlein were both dead it
> could be published, but not before. I can't see who else would have
> had it and
> kept it this long without it leaking out. The official line was always
> that every copy was destroyed which seemed possible, if sad, but not
> all that likely as most authors don't like destroying words they've
> written, no matter how bad ;-)
>
> But I'm just guessing.

Well, truthfully, that's my top theory, too. The other was only
semi-serious, but, in the end, I decided to leave off the smiley. I'm not
sure why, as now I think it should have been left in.

-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22641
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 25 Jul 2003 03:38:35 GMT
Subject: TorCon 3
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

So who's going to Worldcon this year?  Deb and I will be there on Friday
and Saturday.  Hope to see some of you there, particularly at the THS dinner
on Saturday night.  First awarding of the Heinlein Award, plenty of muckety-mucks
there.  Probably have a suprise too; last year was showing the CBS footage
of the RAH & Clark Apollo 11 footage.

http://www.heinleinsociety.org/AwardDinner.html

Best. Geo www.robertaheinlein.com

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22642
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 25 Jul 2003 03:45:08 GMT
Subject: Re: For Us, the Living
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Well, Charlie Brown, publisher of Locus, is on the board of THS. I have
to admit it is discouraging to have a coup like this outed publically before
the membership knows anything about it. Certainly the good news here outweighs
the annoyance tho, yes? New Heinlein!! Yippee!

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22643
From: William J. Keaton" 
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 01:15:28 -0400
Subject: Re: TorCon 3
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


<georule@civilwarstlouis.com> wrote in message
news:3f20a63b.0@news.sff.net...
> So who's going to Worldcon this year?  Deb and I will be there on Friday
> and Saturday.  Hope to see some of you there, particularly at the THS
dinner
> on Saturday night.

I will be there from Wednesday to Tuesday. And I hope to see you at the
Heinlein Society dinner on _Friday_ night, as you'd be awfully lonely
Saturday night. And we'll all be at the Hugo Awards! <g>

WJaKe



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22644
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 25 Jul 2003 05:28:51 GMT
Subject: Re: TorCon 3
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Oh, you're talking about when it starts; I meant when the party is finally
winding down!

   Friday night. FRIDAY NIGHT.  Right.

   Sez so right here: http://www.heinleinsociety.org/AwardDinner.html

Best. Geo  www.robertaheinlein.com

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22645
From: JT 
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:50:42 -0400
Subject: Re: TorCon 3
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On 25 Jul 2003 03:38:35 GMT, georule@civilwarstlouis.com wrote:
>  Probably have a suprise too; last year was showing the CBS footage
>of the RAH & Clark Apollo 11 footage.
>
Now that's something I would like to see.  I wonder if the Museum of
TV & Radio has that?  I don't know that I've ever seen it collected
anywhere.  I certainly didn't see it very well through my playpen when
it originally aired, although I swear I have memories of watching one
of the later moon landings on TV, and that would be one of my earliest
memories.

JT

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22646
From: James R. Cunningham" 
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:20:00 -0700
Subject: Re: For Us, the Living
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Ginny had known for several years that that a copy existed (she did not
have one herself), and said to me on several occasions that she would
have destroyed it had she had access to it.  There is no doubt in my
mind that she would have done so, if able.  She did not leave
instructions regarding its disposition after her death.  I have not seen
or read it.

As an aside, I have seen several forum references to 'the Heinlein
Literary Estate'.  There is not a single estate responsible for all the
copyrights.

Jim

Filksinger wrote:
> 
> Jane Davitt wrote:
> > Filksinger wrote:
> >
> >> The timing makes me wonder if whoever had the manuscript hid it
> >> until all people who would have the power and willingness to burn it
> >> were dead.
> >>
> > I would guess that the person who had it was Ginny herself and she
> > left instructions that once she and Mr Heinlein were both dead it
> > could be published, but not before. I can't see who else would have
> > had it and
> > kept it this long without it leaking out. The official line was always
> > that every copy was destroyed which seemed possible, if sad, but not
> > all that likely as most authors don't like destroying words they've
> > written, no matter how bad ;-)
> >
> > But I'm just guessing.
> 
> Well, truthfully, that's my top theory, too. The other was only
> semi-serious, but, in the end, I decided to leave off the smiley. I'm not
> sure why, as now I think it should have been left in.
> 
> --
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22647
From: James R. Cunningham" 
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:34:19 -0700
Subject: Re: For Us, the Living
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

P.S.  My previous post could be construed to imply that I don't approve
of the upcoming publication of 'For Us The Living'.  That isn't the case
at all.  I was commenting on Ginny's statement of her feelings.  I
agreed with her a fair amount of the time, but not in all cases.
Jim

James R. Cunningham wrote:
> 
> Ginny had known for several years that that a copy existed (she did not
> have one herself),

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22648
From: RPostelnek" 
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:25:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Ed J

I still lurk occasionally.  I am trying to do it more often.  good to hear
from everyone .

Rosie
"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
news:asehhv44tl3o0q32m0mj0pl7l6vkl3j9ok@4ax.com...
> Jim:
>     No one has heard from Bruce in quite some time.  I'd guess that
> if there are no other challengers, you would be the Senior.
>   BTW:  Has anyone heard from Rosie Postelnek or Bill Dailey?
>
> Ed J (2 cents worth)
>
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:18:59 -0500, James Hunt
> <jhunt1@cox-internet.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
> >I'm here--back in the shadows.  (GemStone  AKA James Stone Hunt)
> >I don't often speak as others usually say it first and better.  I would
> >like to throw in a very basic question which is something completely
> >different:  Do we live in a totally digital universe?  When I say
> >totally, I really mean it.  Are such things as time and location quanta?
> >  If so, is there any way to find out?  If it is digital, is this
> >universe just a program running in God's computer?  Would anyone care to
> >take a crack at this?  To tie this to Heinlein, I remember in his *Gulf*
> >in 1949 he had already thought of this: "You are now studying the
> >extension of the quantum concept to all features of the continuum.  You
> >know the chronon, the mensum, and the viton as quanta, as well as the
> >action units of quanta such as the photon.  The continuum has not only
> >structure but texture in all its features.  The least unit of thought we
> >term the psychon."
> >By the way, I am 71 years old.  Is there anyone here who is older?  Does
> >this make me The Senior?
> >
> >Jim
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22649
From: gunner" 
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:09:40 -0400
Subject: Re: This was just too funny!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

i've seen this, or variants of it around the net. personally i prefer the
mannschenn mobius coil type machines with a biasing circuit. they seem to be
less likely to dump the operator into a casual loop causing problems which
can be endlessly annoying .
"gunner"
----------------------
"William J. Keaton" <wjake@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3f0f26e7.0@news.sff.net...
> Ok, I don't normally pass this stuff along. But I can't understand the
point
> of this e-mail I received. It had no virus attached, no links, no real
scam.
> It's written so seriously that it's funny!
>
> The tite of the e-mail was:
> "DWG Needed vlssqdcxrxaly"
>
> The body of the e-mail was:
>
> Greetings,
>
> We need a vendor who can offer immediate supply.
> I'm offering $5,000 US dollars just for referring a vender which is
> (Actually RELIABLE in providing the below equipment) Contact details
> of vendor required, including name and phone #. If they turn out to be
> reliable in supplying the below equipment I'll immediately pay you
> $5,000. We prefer to work with vendor in the Boston/New York area.
>
> 1. The mind warper generation 4 Dimensional Warp Generator # 52 4350a
> series wrist watch with z80 or better memory adapter. If in stock the
> AMD Dimensional Warp Generator module containing the GRC79 induction
> motor, two I80200 warp stabilizers, 256GB of SRAM, and two Analog
> Devices isolinear modules, This unit also has a menu driven GUI
> accessible on the front panel XID display. All in 1 units would be
> great if reliable models are available
>
> 2. The special 23200 or Acme 5X24 series time transducing capacitor
> with built in temporal displacement. Needed with complete
> jumper/auxiliary system
>
> 3. A reliable crystal Ionizor with unlimited memory backup.
>
> 4. I will also pay for Schematics, layouts, and designs directly
> from the manufature which can be used to build this equipment
> from readily available parts.
>
> If your vendor turns out to be reliable, I owe you $5,000.
>
> Email his details to me at: info@federalfundingprogram.com
>
>
> Please do not reply directly back to this email as it will
> only be bounced back to you.
>
>
>
> wait
> rnk  ngyj
>   ioyo  qdeu c y hrj onvg cntplgbogk vvi
>
> ++End of message++
>
> So, what do y`all make of this? Am i receiving messages from aliens, the
> future, or just random nutcases? I feel like whipping up some plans for a
"4
> Dimensional Warp Generator" just to see what happens. Of course, the
e-mail
> link is probably just another spam harvester, but at least it was mildly
> creative!
>
> WJaKe
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22650
From: gunner" 
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:21:21 -0400
Subject: Re: John Varley
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

i read part of "red thunder" before my wife mistakenly took it back to the
library, i'll have to check it back out to finish it, but what i did see
didn't really resemble "rocketship gallileo" all that much. i'll likely
comment further when i've got more to go on. possibly the names are a homage
of sorts or an acknowledgement of a common theme, an inside joke?
"gunner"
----------------------------
"William J. Keaton" <wjake@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3effc694.0@news.sff.net...
> Russel Letson has an interesting review in the June issue of Locus. The
book
> under review is "Red Thunder" by John Varley. "John Varley seems to have a
> Thing for Heinlein." begins the review, which continues on with a plot
> outline for his latest book. Basically, high-school kids build a rocket to
> reach Mars first. Seems I've seen that plot somewhere before. Our hero is
> Manny Garcia. Seems I've heard that name before. Another character is
named
> Jubal. The parallels go on.
>
> What are we to make of John Varley? What is there to his "thing" with
> Heinlein? Has he crossed the line between homage and theft? Or is it just
> that he hasn't quite obscured the serial number on this story?
>
> I have never met the man, but they more I read of him and by him, the more
I
> hope we cross paths in Toronto.
>
> Any thoughts folks? I haven't yet read the book, it should be arriving
> shortly!
>
> WJaKe
>
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22651
From: djinn 
Date: 30 Jul 2003 04:48:25 GMT
Subject: Re: This was just too funny!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

"gunner" <gunnera4@sover.net> wrote in news:3f273af8.0@news.sff.net:

> i've seen this, or variants of it around the net. personally i prefer
> the mannschenn mobius coil type machines with a biasing circuit. they
> seem to be less likely to dump the operator into a casual loop causing
> problems which can be endlessly annoying .
> "gunner"
> ----------------------

The Infinite Improbability Generator, while less reliable and much less 
stable than the Mannschenn Drive, does offer highly improbable 
displacements without the problem of the occasional operator inversion. 


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22652
From: William J. Keaton" 
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:52:36 -0400
Subject: Re: This was just too funny!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"djinn" <qinjingyou@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> The Infinite Improbability Generator, while less reliable and much less
> stable than the Mannschenn Drive, does offer highly improbable
> displacements without the problem of the occasional operator inversion.

Ok, now you've gone too far! I've actually _heard_ of the IIG!!

 No stealing!

 <g>

WJaKe



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22653
From: William J. Keaton" 
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:58:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:3f1c306d.0@news.sff.net...
> Oh, yes. I still remember seeing that list going around for college
> teachers, reminding them of the gap between them and the freshmen.

Credit where credit is due, my alma mater!

The Beloit College Mindset List.

I don't remember when it started, I don't think they did it my freshman
year, but it surely did not get the publicity until (you guessed it) the
internet became popular. The list is regularly circulated every fall, and
the last few years are posted on the Beloit College website.

www.beloit.edu

WJaKe, Class of 86/91



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22654
From: William J. Keaton" 
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:58:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"RPostelnek" <rpostelnek@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3f273aba.0@news.sff.net...
> Ed J
>
> I still lurk occasionally.  I am trying to do it more often.  good to hear
> from everyone .
>
> Rosie

Hi Rosie!!

WJaKe



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22655
From: Eli Hestermann 
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:58:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Thanks for the reference on that, WJake. Since I'll be a professor for 
the first time this fall, I'd planned to read that before entering the 
classroom.

William J. Keaton wrote:

>"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
>news:3f1c306d.0@news.sff.net...
>  
>
>>Oh, yes. I still remember seeing that list going around for college
>>teachers, reminding them of the gap between them and the freshmen.
>>    
>>
>
>Credit where credit is due, my alma mater!
>
>The Beloit College Mindset List.
>
>I don't remember when it started, I don't think they did it my freshman
>year, but it surely did not get the publicity until (you guessed it) the
>internet became popular. The list is regularly circulated every fall, and
>the last few years are posted on the Beloit College website.
>
>www.beloit.edu
>
>WJaKe, Class of 86/91
>
>
>  
>

-- 
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa."  -Seneca



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22656
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:32:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Rosie:  Don't be such a stranger <g>.

Now, if only we can get the 'others' to de-lurk <G>.

Ed J

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:25:40 -0500, "RPostelnek"
<rpostelnek@prodigy.net> wrote:

>Ed J
>
>I still lurk occasionally.  I am trying to do it more often.  good to hear
>from everyone .
>
>Rosie
>"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
>news:asehhv44tl3o0q32m0mj0pl7l6vkl3j9ok@4ax.com...
>> Jim:
>>     No one has heard from Bruce in quite some time.  I'd guess that
>> if there are no other challengers, you would be the Senior.
>>   BTW:  Has anyone heard from Rosie Postelnek or Bill Dailey?
>>
>> Ed J (2 cents worth)
>>
>> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:18:59 -0500, James Hunt
>> <jhunt1@cox-internet.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >I'm here--back in the shadows.  (GemStone  AKA James Stone Hunt)
>> >I don't often speak as others usually say it first and better.  I would
>> >like to throw in a very basic question which is something completely
>> >different:  Do we live in a totally digital universe?  When I say
>> >totally, I really mean it.  Are such things as time and location quanta?
>> >  If so, is there any way to find out?  If it is digital, is this
>> >universe just a program running in God's computer?  Would anyone care to
>> >take a crack at this?  To tie this to Heinlein, I remember in his *Gulf*
>> >in 1949 he had already thought of this: "You are now studying the
>> >extension of the quantum concept to all features of the continuum.  You
>> >know the chronon, the mensum, and the viton as quanta, as well as the
>> >action units of quanta such as the photon.  The continuum has not only
>> >structure but texture in all its features.  The least unit of thought we
>> >term the psychon."
>> >By the way, I am 71 years old.  Is there anyone here who is older?  Does
>> >this make me The Senior?
>> >
>> >Jim
>>
>>
>


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 22657
From: Filksinger" 
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:59:22 -0700
Subject: The Alcohol Challenge!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

OK, here it is.

About six months ago or so, I commented that even small quantities of
alcohol were bad for you. A number of people pointed out recent studies that
seemed to show different.

I conceded the point at the time, as something I hadn't really been keeping
up on. However, I recently realized that YOU'RE ALL WRONG!!!:P

I'll bet not one person can find a study that shows that alcohol is good for
you. I may reject a number of studies as you find them, but I won't explain
why yet. I want to see if anyone can actually find a study that meets the
criteria I have given, or if everyone, uh, makes the same error.

So, there it is. I dare you all to find one study that says alcohol is good
for you, or, barring that, that it isn't bad for you.:)


-- 
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined



------------------------------------------------------------

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