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Archive date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 09:32:54
============================================================
Article 23674
From: JT
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 19:32:59 -0400
Subject: DC-area Chinese Food ;)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 21:18:47 -0400, Ed Johnson
<eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
>JT:
> I believe that you said earlier that you wouldn't be able to
>travel this year, IIRC. How about if some of us visited your
>neighborhood some weekend and made a mini-gathering out of visiting
>DC? Would that be at all possible? You could make it a day trip
>from home and (hopefully) not be too inconvenienced with travel
>plans. (Just a thought).
> I still have fond memories of Dim-Sum at that nice Chinese
>restaurant that you selected for us.
>
>Ed J
Yeah, *this* year is out for any extended travel. But a weekend is
doable as long as we pick the weekend a few weeks in advance.
Christine is *always* up for good Chinese.
There's actually a dim sum place in Wheaton (not Chinatown) that's
very good, but there's still a couple of good ones in Chinatown.
WJaKe and I were making noises about getting together for Chinese
soon, maybe we should just get a little noisier about it. ;)
Anyone that wants in just has to be able to put up with two yammering
boys!
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23675
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 16:25:34 -0400
Subject: Re: DC-area Chinese Food ;)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"JT" <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote
>
> WJaKe and I were making noises about getting together for Chinese
> soon, maybe we should just get a little noisier about it. ;)
>
> Anyone that wants in just has to be able to put up with two yammering
> boys!
Oh come on JT, you and I don't yammer that much!
WJaKe
Oh, wait... you meant....
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23676
From: John Paul Vrolyk
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 21:16:12 -0700
Subject: Re: Gathering 2005
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT wrote:
> > ...I misspelled Vrolyk in my post
"William J. Keaton" wrote:
> Yeah, like we noticed. And like the Vorolyks are here to complain! <g>
>
> <g,d & r, in case Les pops in!>
Hey, I still lurk here quite consistently! I just seldom have the
time to post. Les, OTOH, hasn't been in here for many moons, though
I keep her up on important stuff like Fader's birthday, spaceship
launches, etc..
--
John Paul Vrolyk
jp@vrolyk.org
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23677
From: John Paul Vrolyk
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 21:27:28 -0700
Subject: Re: Gathering 2005
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT wrote:
> the Vroylks want to come but may
> have another family obligation. We'll see if they can throw out a
> weekend that works for them (if they commit to coming also ;)
My parents' 40th wedding anniversary is in May 2005, and a
big shin-dig is planned. Driving two little kids halfway across
the continent isn't very fun, as we discovered on this year's
"vacation" to MN/ND, and certainly isn't something we're going
to do twice in one summer. However, if we were able to efficiently
combine events into a single journey, this could be quite doable.
So I think, were a Gathering to be one of the weekends immediatly
before or after the weekend of my parents' event, we would be able
to attend. (And we'd have alot more fun, too!)
--
John Paul Vrolyk
jp@vrolyk.org
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23678
From: Filksinger"
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:50:20 -0700
Subject: Colossus computer to be rebuilt
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Though it was never officially named, and wasn't even publicly admitted to
exist until the 1970's, the computer nick-named "Colossus" was instrumental
in cracking German ciphers during WWII. Widely believed to have been a US
machine until the 1970's, (Great Britain's Official Secrets Act prosecutes
by secret trial anyone who releases secrets for a period of 30 years)
Colossus was actually built by the British. It is claimed to be fast even by
today's standards (though I suspect that they mean "when compared to desktop
machines doing the job for which Colossus was designed").
The MkII is being reconstructed in commemoration of D-Day, which the
computer greatly assisted. For more info, see:
http://tinyurl.com/2aje6
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23679
From: JT
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 19:19:54 -0400
Subject: Re: DC-area Chinese Food ;)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 16:25:34 -0400, "William J. Keaton"
<wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>Oh come on JT, you and I don't yammer that much!
>
>WJaKe
>
>Oh, wait... you meant....
>
ROTFLASTK! I was wondering if anyone would take the line... ;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23680
From: Filksinger"
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 16:31:03 -0700
Subject: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Rutan and Scaled Composites are going for 100 kilometers on the 21st, two
days before my birthday. While I would have liked to have been offered a
ride, I guess I can forgive him for forgetting me, since it is for the pilot
only this trip, and I sure as hell ain't flying the damned thing.:)
If it succeeds, then they will prepare for the full X-Prize requirements
next.
For more info: www.scaled.com
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23681
From: Bill Dauphin
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 21:50:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 6/7/04 7:31 PM, in article 40c4fb61.0@news.sff.net, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
> Rutan and Scaled Composites are going for 100 kilometers on the 21st, two
> days before my birthday. While I would have liked to have been offered a
> ride, I guess I can forgive him for forgetting me, since it is for the pilot
> only this trip, and I sure as hell ain't flying the damned thing.:)
>
> If it succeeds, then they will prepare for the full X-Prize requirements
> next.
>
> For more info: www.scaled.com
Note also that this flight, unlike the earlier tests, is open to the public
(viewing info is on the Scaled website, under the FAQ). Some of the space
news/advocacy sites are starting to refer to it as the Woodstock of space; I
know if I had any time or money for discretionary travel, I'd try to be
there.
-JovBill
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23682
From: Catherine Hampton
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 19:29:40 -0700
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 21:50:32 -0400, Bill Dauphin <dauphinb@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
>> For more info: www.scaled.com
>
>Note also that this flight, unlike the earlier tests, is open to the public
>(viewing info is on the Scaled website, under the FAQ). Some of the space
>news/advocacy sites are starting to refer to it as the Woodstock of space; I
>know if I had any time or money for discretionary travel, I'd try to be
>there.
I am going to be there, at least, unless work tells me that I absolutely
cannot be spared for the 21st and 22nd. Since the CEO is a former Marine
fighter pilot whose great ambition was to become an astronaut, I suspect
I'm not the only person who will be away from work for a couple of days.
<G>
--
Ariel (aka Catherine Hampton) <ariel@tempest.boxmail.com>
===========================================================
Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/>
Human Rights Web * <http://www.hrweb.org/>
The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/>
(Please use this address for replies -- the address in my header is a
spam trap.)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23683
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 23:33:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Colossus computer to be rebuilt
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
FS:
I saw a front view of the vacuum tube code-breaker Colossus on the
History channel the other night. I doubt seriously that it's speed
(MIPS) could compare to a properly programmed script running on a
486-33. (My 1977, 477KHz TI-59 calculator probably has more horse
power than Colossus <g>)
The most powerful computer of 1974 (left as a problem for the
student) was no more powerful than a circa 1994 Pentium-100.
The History show claimed that the British constructed this
purpose-build decoder before MIT built their first computer (I am
not so sure of that being correct, BTW). This coup (being first)
was kept secret for reasons of national security during WW2 and much
later. Or so they claim.
Ed J
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:50:20 -0700, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>Though it was never officially named, and wasn't even publicly admitted to
>exist until the 1970's, the computer nick-named "Colossus" was instrumental
>in cracking German ciphers during WWII. Widely believed to have been a US
>machine until the 1970's, (Great Britain's Official Secrets Act prosecutes
>by secret trial anyone who releases secrets for a period of 30 years)
>Colossus was actually built by the British. It is claimed to be fast even by
>today's standards (though I suspect that they mean "when compared to desktop
>machines doing the job for which Colossus was designed").
>
>The MkII is being reconstructed in commemoration of D-Day, which the
>computer greatly assisted. For more info, see:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2aje6
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23684
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 23:41:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger:
I just read "pilot to be announced..." ??? on www.scaled.com
Has the name of the pilot for this attempt been leaked to the
press yet? Wouldn't it just be Mike Melvill, who piloted the
previous flights? The Mojave desert in two weeks - I wonder if
they will get much press from the Big guys (CNN, CBS etc.) I hope
that Ad Astra magazine sends someone to write it up.
This is damn'd exciting!
I can't wait until someone attempts the actual X prize.
I only wish that the old DC-X project was continued.
Ed J
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 16:31:03 -0700, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>Rutan and Scaled Composites are going for 100 kilometers on the 21st, two
>days before my birthday. While I would have liked to have been offered a
>ride, I guess I can forgive him for forgetting me, since it is for the pilot
>only this trip, and I sure as hell ain't flying the damned thing.:)
>
>If it succeeds, then they will prepare for the full X-Prize requirements
>next.
>
>For more info: www.scaled.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23685
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 23:45:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Colossus computer to be rebuilt
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
The web page backs up the claims of being first with an electronic
computing machine.
Ed J
On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 23:33:13 -0400, Ed Johnson
<eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
>FS:
> I saw a front view of the vacuum tube code-breaker Colossus on the
>History channel the other night. I doubt seriously that it's speed
>(MIPS) could compare to a properly programmed script running on a
>486-33. (My 1977, 477KHz TI-59 calculator probably has more horse
>power than Colossus <g>)
> The most powerful computer of 1974 (left as a problem for the
>student) was no more powerful than a circa 1994 Pentium-100.
> The History show claimed that the British constructed this
>purpose-build decoder before MIT built their first computer (I am
>not so sure of that being correct, BTW). This coup (being first)
>was kept secret for reasons of national security during WW2 and much
>later. Or so they claim.
>
>Ed J
>
>On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:50:20 -0700, "Filksinger"
><filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>
>>Though it was never officially named, and wasn't even publicly admitted to
>>exist until the 1970's, the computer nick-named "Colossus" was instrumental
>>in cracking German ciphers during WWII. Widely believed to have been a US
>>machine until the 1970's, (Great Britain's Official Secrets Act prosecutes
>>by secret trial anyone who releases secrets for a period of 30 years)
>>Colossus was actually built by the British. It is claimed to be fast even by
>>today's standards (though I suspect that they mean "when compared to desktop
>>machines doing the job for which Colossus was designed").
>>
>>The MkII is being reconstructed in commemoration of D-Day, which the
>>computer greatly assisted. For more info, see:
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/2aje6
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23686
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 01:12:13 -0400
Subject: Re: DC-area Chinese Food ;)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I can always count on you to be my straight man. Or vice versa, you know!
WJaKe
"JT" <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote in message
news:nvt9c0hjntt4ej1ieje1lhaio11uajrgtk@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 16:25:34 -0400, "William J. Keaton"
> <wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>
> >Oh come on JT, you and I don't yammer that much!
> >
> >WJaKe
> >
> >Oh, wait... you meant....
> >
>
> ROTFLASTK! I was wondering if anyone would take the line... ;)
>
> JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23687
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 01:14:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Gathering 2005
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I figured my comment would flush one of you out!
Aside from the upcoming travel, you've got to let us know what's going on
with the Vrolyk clan these days.
WJaKe
"John Paul Vrolyk" <jp@vrolyk.org> wrote in message
news:40C3EC0C.DDE2BE7D@vrolyk.org...
> JT wrote:
> > > ...I misspelled Vrolyk in my post
>
> "William J. Keaton" wrote:
> > Yeah, like we noticed. And like the Vorolyks are here to complain! <g>
> >
> > <g,d & r, in case Les pops in!>
>
> Hey, I still lurk here quite consistently! I just seldom have the
> time to post. Les, OTOH, hasn't been in here for many moons, though
> I keep her up on important stuff like Fader's birthday, spaceship
> launches, etc..
>
> --
> John Paul Vrolyk
> jp@vrolyk.org
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23688
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 01:17:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:40c4fb61.0@news.sff.net...
> Rutan and Scaled Composites are going for 100 kilometers on the 21st,
I hope they can get some kind of media coverage set up. I'd even get up
early if there's a chance to see some live footage on TV or streaming over
the internet.
If anything new pops up in the medai coverage section of the FAQ, I'll post
it, unless someone else here beats me to it!
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23689
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 01:22:33 -0400
Subject: E-voting
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On of the topics that popped up in Saturday's AIM Heinlein Chat was
electronic voting. Then this article popped up:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/07/five_years_ago/
With more details here:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/06/07/nelson_mandela_is_it_mandala/
Now, it looks like this was just a way of gathering data, and sending it
back to a central location. I don't see that they actually voted online.
Anyone know anything more about what SA was doing back in 1999?
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23690
From: Catherine Hampton
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 07:05:25 -0700
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 23:41:21 -0400, Ed Johnson
<eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
>Has the name of the pilot for this attempt been leaked to the
>press yet? Wouldn't it just be Mike Melvill, who piloted the
>previous flights?
The pilot will probably be either Mike Melvill or Rutan himself. I'm not
betting on which; Rutan reportedly *REALLY* wants to do this. (I wonder
why?) <G>
--
Ariel (aka Catherine Hampton) <ariel@tempest.boxmail.com>
===========================================================
Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/>
Human Rights Web * <http://www.hrweb.org/>
The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/>
(Please use this address for replies -- the address in my header is a
spam trap.)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23691
From: Filksinger"
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 11:27:10 -0700
Subject: Re: Colossus computer to be rebuilt
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
The claims is that Colossus was fast by today's standards, comparable with a
good PC, in solving its one design goal. Note what this means:
1. It wasn't necessarily as fast in any other respect, only this one area
for which it was hardwired. While its programming could be changed by
changing the wires around, once set in place, this is a very fast way to run
the programming.
2. Nobody claimed that it could do as many MIPS as a modern machine. A
modern general purpose machine probably has to do considerably more steps
than Colossus to do the same job. Today even custom-built machines don't use
hardwiring, they use ROM storage of the software, thus requiring
considerably more steps than a hardwired machine. (This creates such strange
results as high-end digital cameras running DOS variants.)
3. It was supposed to be highly parallel. Since each attempt probably took
only a small number of steps, it could be parallel to an extreme degree.
4. When work on the rebuild first started as the hobby project of a couple
in England, this claim would have been compared, most likely, to a 486.
As for who was "first", ENIAC wasn't finished until at least the fall of
1945, when they did the final assembly. Most reports claim it became fully
operational in 1946. Colossus was operational by the end of 1943.
However, they may both have been beaten out, depending upon what "first" you
are looking for, by Konrad Zuse, who built machines using relays for the
Germans during WWII. Unfortunately, all plans, the originals, and all
pictures of his relay-driven binary programmable computers, the Z2 and Z3,
were destroyed by air raids near the end of WWII. He was later able to
reconstruct them.
His Z1 was in operation between 1936 and 1938, and was a programable
mechanical binary computer. His Z2 used 800 phone relays and a mechanical
memory system to run, and, though I can't find a date for it, appears to
have been built around 1938-1939. Z3, however, did not use mechanical memory
to store values, is reported to have design work started in 1939, and been
completed in 1941.
As a result, the first binary computer was Z1, as was the first freely
programmable computer. OTOH, technically a machine built of relays isn't
"electronic", but electro-mechanical, so neither Z2 nor Z3 were the first
_electronic_ computer. Depending upon which first you are going for, and how
you define them, he may have also met the requirements of other "firsts", as
well.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
Ed Johnson wrote:
> FS:
> I saw a front view of the vacuum tube code-breaker
> Colossus on the History channel the other night. I doubt
> seriously that it's speed (MIPS) could compare to a
> properly programmed script running on a 486-33. (My 1977,
> 477KHz TI-59 calculator probably has more horse power
> than Colossus <g>) The most powerful computer of 1974
> (left as a problem for the student) was no more powerful
> than a circa 1994 Pentium-100. The History show claimed
> that the British constructed this purpose-build decoder
> before MIT built their first computer (I am not so sure
> of that being correct, BTW). This coup (being first) was
> kept secret for reasons of national security during WW2
> and much later. Or so they claim.
>
> Ed J
>
> On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:50:20 -0700, "Filksinger"
> <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>
>> Though it was never officially named, and wasn't even
>> publicly admitted to exist until the 1970's, the
>> computer nick-named "Colossus" was instrumental in
>> cracking German ciphers during WWII. Widely believed to
>> have been a US machine until the 1970's, (Great
>> Britain's Official Secrets Act prosecutes by secret
>> trial anyone who releases secrets for a period of 30
>> years) Colossus was actually built by the British. It is
>> claimed to be fast even by today's standards (though I
>> suspect that they mean "when compared to desktop
>> machines doing the job for which Colossus was
>> designed").
>>
>> The MkII is being reconstructed in commemoration of
>> D-Day, which the computer greatly assisted. For more
>> info, see:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/2aje6
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23692
From: David Wright"
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 16:16:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Colossus computer to be rebuilt
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:40c6057f.0@news.sff.net...
(snip)
> As for who was "first", ENIAC wasn't finished until at least the fall of
> 1945, when they did the final assembly. Most reports claim it became fully
> operational in 1946. Colossus was operational by the end of 1943.
>
(snip)
You might be interested in the following:
From: http://www.cs.iastate.edu/jva/jva-archive.shtml
The Atanasoff-Berry Computer was the world's first electronic digital
computer. It was built by John Vincent Atanasoff and Clifford Berry at Iowa
State University during 1937-42. It incorporated several major innovations
in computing including the use of binary arithmetic, regenerative memory,
parallel processing, and separation of memory and computing functions.
On October 19, 1973, US Federal Judge Earl R. Larson signed his decision
following a lengthy court trial which declared the ENIAC patent of Mauchly
and Eckert invalid and named Atanasoff the inventor of the electronic
digital computer -- the Atanasoff-Berry Computer or the ABC.
Clark Mollenhoff in his book, Atanasoff, Forgotten Father of the Computer,
details the design and construction of the Atanasoff-Berry Computer with
emphasis on the relationships of the individuals. Alice and Arthur Burks in
their book, The First Electronic Computer: The Atanasoff Story, describe the
design and construction of the ABC and provide a more technical perspective.
Numerous articles provide additional information. In recognition of his
achievement, Atanasoff was awarded the National Medal of Technology by
President George Bush at the White house on November 13, 1990.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23693
From: Filksinger"
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 14:44:53 -0700
Subject: Re: Colossus computer to be rebuilt
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
David Wright wrote:
> (snip)
>
> You might be interested in the following:
>
> From: http://www.cs.iastate.edu/jva/jva-archive.shtml
Interesting. Beats even Colossus by approximately a year. Zuse still is
ahead with all three of his machines, though they weren't electronic.
Let's face it. This is a "When it's steamboat time, you steam" sort of
affair.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23694
From: Bill Dauphin
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 23:20:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 6/8/04 10:05 AM, in article vrhbc0106shmd2n4jbnj5s9ajs0n6h8mci@4ax.com,
"Catherine Hampton" <spamtrap@spambouncer.org> wrote:
> Rutan reportedly *REALLY* wants to do this [i.e., make the first SS1
spaceflight].
He might really want to (who wouldn't?), but I can't imagine he'd actually
do it. AFAIK, he hasn't so much as sat in the cockpit during a captive carry
flight, and I can't imagine he'd trust *this* flight to someone who'd never
flown the vehicle. I'm sure he'll eventually fly it -- maybe even on one of
the two required X Prize flights -- but my money's on Melvill (sp?) for this
flight.
BTW, since you're going to be there (you lucky #@*$%!), you're hereby
deputized as the HF's onsite reporter.
-JovBill
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23695
From: Charles Graft
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 23:39:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Go, Rutan, Go!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Fuel efficiency of jet engines have increased dramatically since the
dawn of the jet age. Through about 1960 all jet engines did not use any
bypass -- all of the air went through the combustion chamber. The
military has always considered fuel efficiency a matter of logistics
rather than of cost. The airline industry does have to consider it.
The first (successful) jet airliners, the DC-8 and the Boeing 707, in
their early production used this type of engine. But the first fan-jet
engines came on the scene very shortly and most of these planes were
upgraded to these engines, giving them about a 25% thrust boost with
smaller fuel consumption and much less noise. New production went to
using these engines and the vast majority of non-military jets were
retrofitted. (I still see military KC-135's, C-135's, and C-137's with
those turbo-jet engines.) (The KC-135 was the original prototype for
the 707 airliner, but to be competitive Boeing increased the fuselage
diameter. So the KC-135 is the tanker version, the C-135 the
cargo/passenger version, and the C-137 the large fuselage version.)
The 707 and DC-8 had underwing engine pods, so updating the engine
was very straightforward. These first generation turbofans spawned the
727, 737 and DC-9 airliners. The next generation turbofans used a
higher bypass ratio and the engines again made great strides in fuel
efficiency and noise. But the newer engines cold not be retrofitted to
the 727, and that line died out. Boeing engineers managed to cram them
under the wing of the 737, which is still in production to this day, and
is the most produced jetliner ever built. Looks kind of awkward with
these engines, though.
One aside here. The World Trade Center was said to have been
designed to withstand the impact of a 707, that being the heaviest
airliner of its day. The 767's that hit the trade center weighed about
twice as much as a loaded 707. But it wasn't the impact that brought
the towers down; it was the burning fuel. The 767 carries 13,100
gallons of jet fuel; the 707 carried 25,000. What a difference in
efficiency! Twice as many passengers on half the fuel with just two
engines. (And two pilots. Many of the earlier jets also required
flight engineers.)
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Seen on the door to a light-wave lab: 'Do not look into laser with
remaining good eye.'"
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23696
From: Catherine Hampton
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 18:51:17 -0700
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 23:20:49 -0400, Bill Dauphin <dauphinb@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
>BTW, since you're going to be there (you lucky #@*$%!), you're hereby
>deputized as the HF's onsite reporter.
I'm honored. <G> And I will come back with pictures and a story. :-)
--
Ariel (aka Catherine Hampton) <ariel@tempest.boxmail.com>
===========================================================
Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/>
Human Rights Web * <http://www.hrweb.org/>
The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/>
(Please use this address for replies -- the address in my header is a
spam trap.)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23697
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 22:28:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Go, Rutan, Go!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Charlie:
Thanks for the pertinent info on turbojet vs. turbofan engines.
Looking at you WTC weight vs fuel load info, I infer that an old
25,000 gallon fueled plane, though lighter would bring down these
buildings with all of their burning fuel. The 'safety' engineers
must have been thinking of a fuel-less mass striking a building at a
given speed. One half m v squared. The burning fuel weakened (or ?
melted?) the trusses and both towers pancaked down upon themselves.
Hopefully we have learned not to use light trusses for support and
flimsy gypsum board (aka: 'sheet rock') for fire insulation in the
future.
I have heard that a similar (767) impact upon the old Empire
State Building would not brought this massive steel girder and
masonry structure down.
Ed J
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 23:39:42 -0500, Charles Graft
<chasgraft@aol.com> wrote:
>Fuel efficiency of jet engines have increased dramatically since the
>dawn of the jet age. Through about 1960 all jet engines did not use any
>bypass -- all of the air went through the combustion chamber. The
>military has always considered fuel efficiency a matter of logistics
>rather than of cost. The airline industry does have to consider it.
>The first (successful) jet airliners, the DC-8 and the Boeing 707, in
>their early production used this type of engine. But the first fan-jet
>engines came on the scene very shortly and most of these planes were
>upgraded to these engines, giving them about a 25% thrust boost with
>smaller fuel consumption and much less noise. New production went to
>using these engines and the vast majority of non-military jets were
>retrofitted. (I still see military KC-135's, C-135's, and C-137's with
>those turbo-jet engines.) (The KC-135 was the original prototype for
>the 707 airliner, but to be competitive Boeing increased the fuselage
>diameter. So the KC-135 is the tanker version, the C-135 the
>cargo/passenger version, and the C-137 the large fuselage version.)
>
> The 707 and DC-8 had underwing engine pods, so updating the engine
>was very straightforward. These first generation turbofans spawned the
>727, 737 and DC-9 airliners. The next generation turbofans used a
>higher bypass ratio and the engines again made great strides in fuel
>efficiency and noise. But the newer engines cold not be retrofitted to
>the 727, and that line died out. Boeing engineers managed to cram them
>under the wing of the 737, which is still in production to this day, and
>is the most produced jetliner ever built. Looks kind of awkward with
>these engines, though.
>
> One aside here. The World Trade Center was said to have been
>designed to withstand the impact of a 707, that being the heaviest
>airliner of its day. The 767's that hit the trade center weighed about
>twice as much as a loaded 707. But it wasn't the impact that brought
>the towers down; it was the burning fuel. The 767 carries 13,100
>gallons of jet fuel; the 707 carried 25,000. What a difference in
>efficiency! Twice as many passengers on half the fuel with just two
>engines. (And two pilots. Many of the earlier jets also required
>flight engineers.)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23698
From: David Wright"
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 10:36:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Go, Rutan, Go!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
news:n9hfc0pjua4jmb4h7mhhh74qu8n3btl7i5@4ax.com...
(snip)
> I have heard that a similar (767) impact upon the old Empire
> State Building would not brought this massive steel girder and
> masonry structure down.
That was my initial thought when I first heard the news. The memory of
hearing about the B-25? hitting the Empire State Building when I was a child
immediately came to mind and I seriously downplayed the WTC event much to my
sadness. Once I saw the collapse of the first building, I was just thankful
that the hi-jackers didn't or couldn't have aimed at a lower floor. If they
had, the loss of life, I, believe, would have been much, much higher as it
would have cut off egress for many of the people on the upper floors and
likely would have toppled the buildings rather than having them collapse
from the top down.
--
The next Heinlein Readers Group chats will be:
"Humor in Heinlein" on
Thursday, June 17 at 9:00 p.m. EDT and
Saturday, June 19 at 5:00 p.m. EDT.
See http://heinleinsociety.org/readersgroup/index.html#info
for information on participation..
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23699
From: Lorrita Morgan"
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:58:57 -0700
Subject: Ronald Wilson Regan
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I am surprised that this thread is not here already.
I clicked into CSPAN as the Honor Guard was changing about 5:30 PDT
yesterday. I was hooked on the ceremony I watched until the next guard
mount. All evening I found myself "jumping" back to CSPAN during
commercials.
Ronald Regan and his policies hurt me as a disabled veteran, student,
working class mother, or whatever other classification I almost fit into
1981-1989. I rarely agreed with anything he said or did.
Yet now I find this ambivelent grief hard to explain. I found myself doing
a slow measured salute as I passed lowered flags. My body responding
contrary to my mind. Thirty year old training taking over. A former
Commander in Chief is dead I must show him and his family all honor and
respect due his rank and office.
--
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
`rita
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Stray Thought: The service members guarding Ronald Regan could have been
born during his Presidency. (1981= 23, 1988 = 16)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23700
From: Jeffry Dwight
Date: 10 Jun 2004 17:26:23 GMT
Subject: Re: Ronald Wilson Regan
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Loritta,
There was a thread here about Reagan, but unfortunately it turned into a
political debate and got itself moved elsewhere. Thank you for restarting
the discussion.
- j.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23701
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (John Tilden)
Date: 10 Jun 2004 19:00:35 GMT
Subject: Re: Ronald Wilson Regan
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Sure you're not thinking of the stuff moved from .obituaries, Jeffry? I
didn't think we had a discussion, and the charter for the h-f is nothing
is off-topic anyway. ;)
Anyway, for my $.37, Reagan was the first President that I was old enough
to try and understand. I was a little too young for Carter.
Most of my "older" colleagues at work have very little love for him, but
I think he was a good -leader-, whether or not you agreed with his policies.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23702
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (John Tilden)
Date: 10 Jun 2004 19:28:29 GMT
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Read thru the FAQ at scaled.com. I particularly liked:
Q: Who is invited?
A: Everyone, especially children. They will want to tell their children
that they were there to see the event that triggered the industry of private
space tourism.
Nothing like confidence!
Can someone please post a reminder here the day before if it's going to
be covered live by any internet or video media?
--JT
--JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23703
From: Wendy of NJ
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:38:17 -0400
Subject: Ray Charles
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Music/06/10/obit.ray.charles.ap/index.html
And another great contributor to the artistic wealth of society passes
on... Goodbye Mr. Charles.
-Wendy
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23704
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:26:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Ronald Wilson Regan
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT and `rita;
Personal reflections on the 40th president: During Ronald
Reagan's time in office, I felt better about being an American that
at any time before or since. (I felt pretty good, briefly, during
two weeks in December of 1972, vis: during "Linebacker II") I feel
that Reagan was as inspirational to Americans as was JFK to my
(baby-boomer) generation and as influential on international events
as was FDR for an earlier generation of Americans.
I remember his speech before Berlin's Brandenburg Gate when he
said: "Mr. Gorbachov, tear down this wall!" I also remember JFK's
visit to Berlin.
I have a friend who sculpts in stone who offered to carve the
Gipper's likeness next to Washington's on Mt. Rushmore, prior to his
death. I told him that if he gets that commission, I would gladly
carry the tools for him.
We have had one two term president who was smaller than life;
Reagan was larger than life, IMNSHO.
`rita: I watched on CNN (and Fox) as his body was taken off of the
plane and I saw the procession through the streets of Washington.
That was a long climb up the stairs of the West side of the Capitol;
it was where Reagan gave his inaugural address. I heard the
eulogies and watched with you the honor guard and through a few
changes of the guard. I felt as if I had lost my father all over
again.
On 10 Jun 2004 19:00:35 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (John Tilden) wrote:
>Sure you're not thinking of the stuff moved from .obituaries, Jeffry? I
>didn't think we had a discussion, and the charter for the h-f is nothing
>is off-topic anyway. ;)
>
>Anyway, for my $.37, Reagan was the first President that I was old enough
>to try and understand. I was a little too young for Carter.
>
>Most of my "older" colleagues at work have very little love for him, but
>I think he was a good -leader-, whether or not you agreed with his policies.
>
>JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23705
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 00:52:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Ray Charles
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
This one hurts, the man was a true musical genius. I was thrilled to have
the opportunity to seem him live back in 1992, and while the show was short,
he was great.
Fast forwarding to the "Ray's Music Exchange" segment of The Blues Brothers"
Shake it Brother Ray, Shake it!
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23706
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 00:57:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Ronald Wilson Regan
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Just a note, it is Reagan
I have been up to my eyeballs in arrangements for VOA's coverage of the
funeral and so forth. Did manage to view the TV coverage of the cassion
rolling up to the Capitol. That is something I would like to have seen in
person.
Considered taking a stroll up to the Capitol Rotunda, but the lines have
been 3-5 hours long; I just don't have that kind of time.
First President I ever voted for.
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23707
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 11 Jun 2004 18:19:25 GMT
Subject: Campbell on Heinlein
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
A lovely new piece of work at www.heinleinsociety.org this time. Professor
Robert Gorsch, of St. Mary's College of California, with "Campbell on Heinlein:
Selections from The John W. Campbell Letters".
Our thanks to Professor Gorsch, the Chapdelaines (custodians of the Campbell
letters), and the Heinlein estate for making it possible.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23708
From: Mitch Wagner
Date: 12 Jun 2004 00:46:44 GMT
Subject: Re: Campbell on Heinlein
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
georule@civilwarstlouis.com wrote in news:40c9f7ad.0@news.sff.net:
> A lovely new piece of work at www.heinleinsociety.org this time.
> Professor Robert Gorsch, of St. Mary's College of California, with
> "Campbell on Heinlein: Selections from The John W. Campbell Letters".
>
> Our thanks to Professor Gorsch, the Chapdelaines (custodians of the
> Campbell letters), and the Heinlein estate for making it possible.
>
Oh, splendid! I'm looking forward to reading it.
Mitch Wagner
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23709
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 02:01:24 -0400
Subject: Book Resold
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Locus reports that Spider Robinson has re-sold Night of Power to Baen. This
one's been out of print for a while, some would say rightly so. (Skinny
white guy from Long Island via Canada writing about a race riot in NYC?
Hmmm....)
However, it does show a side of Spider besides the Callahan's and One Mind
worlds.
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23710
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 13 Jun 2004 21:56:31 GMT
Subject: PCA's New "Heinlein Studies Area
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/scholasticacademic/PCAcallforpapers.html
This means that "Heinlein Studies" has been promoted to its own "Area"
within the Popular Culture Association, which is a much more permanent type
of arrangement than the yearly "well, let's see if anyone cares this year"
kind of deal.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23711
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 14 Jun 2004 05:09:42 GMT
Subject: More Recent Happenings in Heinlein Scholarship
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
A really excellent entry on Heinlein (by Bill Patterson and Robert Gorsch)
at www.litencyc.com (The Literary Encylopedia -- Literature in English).
Hit the "One Person" button on the left and search "Heinlein". This is an
up-and-coming site run by academics.
A competent (if, alas, a bit limited) Heinlein entry at "Perspectives in
American Literature", here
http://www.csustan.edu/english/reuben/pal/chap10/heinlein.html run by an
Eng. Lit. professor. Google "American literature" and you will find this
site is the third highest entry on the list. The Heinlein entry is from
this year.
At the risk of sounding Marxist, the "correlation of forces" seem to be
moving in our direction folks.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23712
From: Charles Graft
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:15:04 -0500
Subject: Truman Lake
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
To those old cobbers --
This hits kind of close to home --
> Winds were so strong on Truman Lake, about 70 miles southeast of
Kansas City,
> that a 16-foot boat was swamped by large waves. The body of the boat's
owner,
> Vance Wiles, 40, of Willard, Mo., was found along the shore Sunday,
officials said.
I remember some nice thunderstorm watching at that site. . . .
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Seen on the door to a light-wave lab: 'Do not look into laser with
remaining good eye.'"
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23713
From: JT
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:09:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Truman Lake
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:15:04 -0500, Charles Graft <chasgraft@aol.com>
wrote:
>To those old cobbers --
> This hits kind of close to home --
>
>> Winds were so strong on Truman Lake, about 70 miles southeast of
>Kansas City,
>> that a 16-foot boat was swamped by large waves. The body of the boat's
>owner,
>> Vance Wiles, 40, of Willard, Mo., was found along the shore Sunday,
>officials said.
>
> I remember some nice thunderstorm watching at that site. . . .
The view from The Bluff is one of my treasured memories.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23714
From: Charles Graft
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 21:20:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
See NY Times article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/14/science/14plane.html?ex=1087876800&en=c5babee992866d30&ei=5059&partner=AOL
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Seen on the door to a light-wave lab: 'Do not look into laser with
remaining good eye.'"
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23715
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 14:17:06 -0400
Subject: Re: More Recent Happenings in Heinlein Scholarship
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Geo: Thanks for that link to the Literary Encyclopedia and the
Heinlein article. It is amazingly good!
I was unaware that the US Naval Academy, didn't supply graduates
Bachelor's Degrees way back when.
Ed J
On 14 Jun 2004 05:09:42 GMT, georule@civilwarstlouis.com wrote:
>A really excellent entry on Heinlein (by Bill Patterson and Robert Gorsch)
>at www.litencyc.com (The Literary Encylopedia -- Literature in English).
>Hit the "One Person" button on the left and search "Heinlein". This is an
>up-and-coming site run by academics.
>
>A competent (if, alas, a bit limited) Heinlein entry at "Perspectives in
>American Literature", here
>http://www.csustan.edu/english/reuben/pal/chap10/heinlein.html run by an
>Eng. Lit. professor. Google "American literature" and you will find this
>site is the third highest entry on the list. The Heinlein entry is from
>this year.
>
>At the risk of sounding Marxist, the "correlation of forces" seem to be
>moving in our direction folks.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23716
From: Filksinger"
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:20:39 -0700
Subject: Bug Me Not
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On occasion, I find myself referred to some interesting news tidbit in an
online newspaper, only to discover that I need a "free registration" to see
the article. This is, of course, a privacy-violating way of collecting your
personal information, and a damned pain in the neck.
So, next time someone refers you to www.nytimes.com, www.latimes.com, or any
of a number of other online newspapers, go to http://www.bugmenot.com. At
BugMeNot.com, they keep lists of communal logins, logins that people give
them for anyone to use. Simply type in the url of the online newspaper that
wants a free registration from you, and you will get a user name and
password.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23717
From: Filksinger"
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:24:51 -0700
Subject: Cell Phone Worm
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
The first worm for a cell phone has been released. Designed for the Nokia
60-series of cell phones, it attacks by tricking a user into opening it.
Once opened, it scans for other Bluetooth (short-range, low-power,
low-speed, cheap wireless) devices to which to send itself, quickly draining
the cell phone's battery.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23718
From: JT
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:14:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Cell Phone Worm
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:24:51 -0700, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>The first worm for a cell phone has been released. Designed for the Nokia
>60-series of cell phones, it attacks by tricking a user into opening it.
>Once opened, it scans for other Bluetooth (short-range, low-power,
>low-speed, cheap wireless) devices to which to send itself, quickly draining
>the cell phone's battery.
One of the reasons why my cell phone is still just a basic phone.
One of the things I liked about the Battlestar Galactica remake is how
they emphasized how Adama kept the Galactica's command systems
unintegrated with the main computer 'net. That's why they were the
only Battlestar left. ;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23719
From: Filksinger"
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 17:30:21 -0700
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Here's a slightly more upbeat article which talks about other bills and the
recent report handed down from the White House.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
Charles Graft wrote:
> See NY Times article:
>
>
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/14/science/14plane.html?ex=1087876800&en=c5babee992866d30&ei=5059&partner=AOL
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23720
From: Filksinger"
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:54:51 -0700
Subject: The Gummi Bears Will Get You!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Those of you who have read the more recent work of Bruce Schneier will have
some idea why biometrics (fingerprint scanners, face recognition systems,
etc.) have valuable but limited uses, and why even the best face recognition
systems for the foreseeable future are useless for scanning airports for
terrorists.
But this one is one I didn't expect. A few dollars, some cheap supplies, and
you can fool any fingerprint scanner 80% of the time, with nothing but a
fingerprint found on a glass.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/05/16/gummi_bears_defeat_fingerprint_sensors/
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23721
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:13:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Bug Me Not
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger:
You da man!
Thanks,
Ed J
On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:20:39 -0700, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>On occasion, I find myself referred to some interesting news tidbit in an
>online newspaper, only to discover that I need a "free registration" to see
>the article. This is, of course, a privacy-violating way of collecting your
>personal information, and a damned pain in the neck.
>
>So, next time someone refers you to www.nytimes.com, www.latimes.com, or any
>of a number of other online newspapers, go to http://www.bugmenot.com. At
>BugMeNot.com, they keep lists of communal logins, logins that people give
>them for anyone to use. Simply type in the url of the online newspaper that
>wants a free registration from you, and you will get a user name and
>password.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23722
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:15:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Truman Lake
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT: I'm sorry I missed those Gatherings! Who's Bluff were you
viewing? <BWG> IIRC, you were single back then.
Ed J ;-)
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:09:38 -0400, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:15:04 -0500, Charles Graft <chasgraft@aol.com>
>wrote:
>
>>To those old cobbers --
>> This hits kind of close to home --
>>
>>> Winds were so strong on Truman Lake, about 70 miles southeast of
>>Kansas City,
>>> that a 16-foot boat was swamped by large waves. The body of the boat's
>>owner,
>>> Vance Wiles, 40, of Willard, Mo., was found along the shore Sunday,
>>officials said.
>>
>> I remember some nice thunderstorm watching at that site. . . .
>
>The view from The Bluff is one of my treasured memories.
>
>JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23723
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:22:36 -0400
Subject: Re: The Gummi Bears Will Get You!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Filksinger: Matsumoto showed some ingenuity there.
That's not the only security found wanting. I keep hearing news
reports of people getting pistols past airport security! (The most
recent was a fake gun, they must have been making a point about lax
security.) There must be some fairly large "holes" in our airport
security nets to allow that to happen at all.
Ed J
On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:54:51 -0700, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>Those of you who have read the more recent work of Bruce Schneier will have
>some idea why biometrics (fingerprint scanners, face recognition systems,
>etc.) have valuable but limited uses, and why even the best face recognition
>systems for the foreseeable future are useless for scanning airports for
>terrorists.
>
>But this one is one I didn't expect. A few dollars, some cheap supplies, and
>you can fool any fingerprint scanner 80% of the time, with nothing but a
>fingerprint found on a glass.
>
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/05/16/gummi_bears_defeat_fingerprint_sensors/
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23724
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 01:27:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Cell Phone Worm
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:40cf3fa9.0@news.sff.net...
> The first worm for a cell phone has been released.
Dang, I was hoping to be the first to post this wonderful news! <g>
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23725
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 01:29:08 -0400
Subject: Re: E-voting
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
For those of you interested in e-voting, the latest experiment in Internet
voting was carried out by the US Armed Forces. I read a short news item in
this week's Federal Computer Week that says the military will go back to
paper ballots and USPS.
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23726
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 09:41:25 GMT
Subject: Re: Cell Phone Worm
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
>One of the things I liked about the Battlestar Galactica remake
Wow. You're the first person I've seen who not only _saw_ the show,
but expressed a liking about anything about it.
I saw it out of order and kept falling asleep during it, so didn't
get the complete show. But *Starbuck was a girl*! That was just too
bizarre. And not a real girl, just a female cast in the still-male
role. Very cartoonish.
I read somewhere that Serenity from Firefly did a fly-through in
some scene but I didn't notice it.
Deb Houdek Rule
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.heinleinprize.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23727
From: JT
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:19:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Truman Lake
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:15:56 -0400, Ed Johnson
<eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
>JT: I'm sorry I missed those Gatherings! Who's Bluff were you
>viewing? <BWG> IIRC, you were single back then.
>
That would've been a better question asked of Angel & ML at that time.
<EG>
They got a cabin of their own after the group was together for a
day....
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23728
From: JT
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:23:36 -0400
Subject: Battlestar Galactica--
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 09:41:25 GMT, debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek
Rule) wrote:
>
>>One of the things I liked about the Battlestar Galactica remake
>
> Wow. You're the first person I've seen who not only _saw_ the show,
>but expressed a liking about anything about it.
>
Yeah, well, for eye candy the show wasn't bad. It remains to be seen
how it will do as an ongoing series. Good thing, because it left way
too much open as a miniseries.
I can remember being wowed by the original as a kid, I didn't try to
compare them side-by-side because the original is all tied up in
romanticized memory. Kinda like how the current Justice League, while
a great show, will never stack up to the Super Friends. ;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23729
From: JT
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:27:30 -0400
Subject: David Weber/Honor Harrington novels
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Anyone else read any of these books? I read the first two because
they were free downloads from Baen (their Baen Free Library is great)
and I like to keep a book in my PocketPC for unexpected "down
moments".
After I finished the second book, I found out that the tenth book
shipped with a CD containing all ten books (plus a whole bunch more
Baen books, as it turns out). So I bought the tenth book and I'm now
reading book three. ;)
I think I've established I'm a sucker for military SF!
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23730
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:08:43 -0400
Subject: Re: David Weber/Honor Harrington novels
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT: Have read any of "Hammer's Slammers" by David Drake. A former
HFer recommended Drake to me. Lots of action, I liked what I have
read so far.
Ed J
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:27:30 -0400, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
>Anyone else read any of these books? I read the first two because
>they were free downloads from Baen (their Baen Free Library is great)
>and I like to keep a book in my PocketPC for unexpected "down
>moments".
>
>After I finished the second book, I found out that the tenth book
>shipped with a CD containing all ten books (plus a whole bunch more
>Baen books, as it turns out). So I bought the tenth book and I'm now
>reading book three. ;)
>
>I think I've established I'm a sucker for military SF!
>
>JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23731
From: RAHFAN"
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:50:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Bug Me Not
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:40cf3e62.0@news.sff.net...
> On occasion, I find myself referred to some interesting news
tidbit in an
> online newspaper, only to discover that I need a "free
registration" to see
> the article. This is, of course, a privacy-violating way of
collecting your
> personal information, and a damned pain in the neck.
>
> So, next time someone refers you to www.nytimes.com,
www.latimes.com, or any
> of a number of other online newspapers, go to
http://www.bugmenot.com. At
> BugMeNot.com, they keep lists of communal logins, logins that
people give
> them for anyone to use. Simply type in the url of the online
newspaper that
> wants a free registration from you, and you will get a user name
and
> password.
I always take the approach from Friday. I set up a Hotmail/ Yahoo
account, keeping track of the lies I tell, then send the lies to
that account. Then I register for things using that account and a
consistent set of lies. I feel it is my duty to lie to the data
harvesters as much as possible.
When the account starts getting more spam than I want to dump in a
day, I just walk away and create a new one.
RAHFAN
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23732
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 06:22:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica--
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
>Yeah, well, for eye candy the show wasn't bad. It remains to be seen
>how it will do as an ongoing series. Good thing, because it left way
>too much open as a miniseries.
Didn't know it was going to be a series. The falling asleep several
times during it probably not a good sign of my liking the show.
Not so much a kid during the original. ;-) Though dismayed by its
science fiction quality (or lack thereof), still liked it--the
characters and such. Hence the shock of Starbuck becoming a girl in
this new incarnation.
Remember the sequel/spin-off, "Galactica 1980"? Ghastly.
Sci-Fi Channel didn't do badly with their "Dune" mini-series. The
one from the first book not bad at all, a credible job. Certainly
better than that overpriced gawdawful movie of around 1984-ish. The
second Sci-Fi Ch. mini-series, "Children of Dune" or "Dune Messiah"
(can't recall what they called it--seemed to cover both books) was
pretty dull, but then the material in those books wasn't as good
either.
Kind of a shame to have a tv channel allegedly devoted to science
fiction--or 'sci-fi' as the case may be--and never watch it because
there's no decent science fiction on it.
Deb Houdek Rule
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.heinleinprize.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23733
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 05:41:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica--
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Deb Houdek Rule wrote:
> Kind of a shame to have a tv channel allegedly devoted to science
>fiction--or 'sci-fi' as the case may be--and never watch it because
>there's no decent science fiction on it.
>
>
That's how I feel for the most part, too. Every time I look at the
listing, it seems they're showing some B horror movie that I've already
seen - on MST3K. I thought they did a good job of capturing _Dune
Messiah_ and _Children of Dune_, though as you say those two books are
somewhat slow-paced.
I watched the opening 15 minutes or so of Battlestar Galactica and
quickly lost interest. I'm of an age with JT, and the original movie is
one of the first I remember seeing in a theater (on the base in
Wiesbaden, West Germany). I'd mercifully forgotten the 80s series until
you mentioned it. [g]
--
Eli V. Hestermann
ehestermann@charter.net
"Vita brevis est, ars longa" - Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23734
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:02:20 -0500
Subject: Re: David Weber/Honor Harrington novels
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I have all the Baen Cd Isos if anyone wants they usually contain the
entire backlist for the author of the book, the entire free Library,
http://www.webscription.net/free/ , and a bunch of other goodies. About
150 books not counting duplicates.
All free. You can give them to friends. You are encouraged to copy
them and distribute. You just can't sell them.
Them's the rules. Per Jim Baen.
They also sell all of their books as ebooks at less then paperback
prices. This is when the hardcover comes out so you don't have to wait
for the paperback. Author gets the same royalty for ebooks as for
hardcover even if thier book was only released as a paperback.
http://www.webscription.net/
Kevin
Baen Slushreader since 2002
http://www.baen.com/
JT wrote:
> Anyone else read any of these books? I read the first two because
> they were free downloads from Baen (their Baen Free Library is great)
> and I like to keep a book in my PocketPC for unexpected "down
> moments".
>
> After I finished the second book, I found out that the tenth book
> shipped with a CD containing all ten books (plus a whole bunch more
> Baen books, as it turns out). So I bought the tenth book and I'm now
> reading book three. ;)
>
> I think I've established I'm a sucker for military SF!
>
> JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23735
From: JT
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 19:23:10 -0400
Subject: Re: David Weber/Honor Harrington novels
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:08:43 -0400, Ed Johnson
<eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
>JT: Have read any of "Hammer's Slammers" by David Drake. A former
>HFer recommended Drake to me. Lots of action, I liked what I have
>read so far.
>
No, none as of yet. Maybe if they put the series out in electronic
format. ;) I like to start from the beginning and it's hard to find
the older books in any series these days....
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23736
From: JT
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 19:24:34 -0400
Subject: Re: David Weber/Honor Harrington novels
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:02:20 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
<kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>I have all the Baen Cd Isos if anyone wants they usually contain the
>entire backlist for the author of the book,
Sure, now you tell me. ;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23737
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 19:13:30 -0500
Subject: Re: David Weber/Honor Harrington novels
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
http://www.crowleyenterprises.com/jt.zip
Is the entire Honor Harrington Series in HTML format. I think I got all
of them except for the New Flint Weber collaboration.
Kevin
I'll leave it there at least a week.
JT wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:02:20 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
> <kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I have all the Baen Cd Isos if anyone wants they usually contain the
>>entire backlist for the author of the book,
>
>
> Sure, now you tell me. ;)
>
> JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23738
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 22:44:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica--
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Deb: I'm not saying that the so-called Sci-Fi channel has good SF,
just that I have seen some good shows playing there. Did you like:
Space: Above and Beyond; Babylon 5; and Star Gate SG-1? I don't
know if these three showed in your part of the world, but I thought
that they were worthy of the title "SF" most of the time.
I liked the original Battlestar when it first came out in spite
of it's obvious failings. They lacked Speilburg's budget and didn't
compare to Star Wars for FX.
Ed J
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 06:22:28 GMT, debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek
Rule) wrote:
>>Yeah, well, for eye candy the show wasn't bad. It remains to be seen
>>how it will do as an ongoing series. Good thing, because it left way
>>too much open as a miniseries.
>
> Didn't know it was going to be a series. The falling asleep several
>times during it probably not a good sign of my liking the show.
>
> Not so much a kid during the original. ;-) Though dismayed by its
>science fiction quality (or lack thereof), still liked it--the
>characters and such. Hence the shock of Starbuck becoming a girl in
>this new incarnation.
>
> Remember the sequel/spin-off, "Galactica 1980"? Ghastly.
>
> Sci-Fi Channel didn't do badly with their "Dune" mini-series. The
>one from the first book not bad at all, a credible job. Certainly
>better than that overpriced gawdawful movie of around 1984-ish. The
>second Sci-Fi Ch. mini-series, "Children of Dune" or "Dune Messiah"
>(can't recall what they called it--seemed to cover both books) was
>pretty dull, but then the material in those books wasn't as good
>either.
>
> Kind of a shame to have a tv channel allegedly devoted to science
>fiction--or 'sci-fi' as the case may be--and never watch it because
>there's no decent science fiction on it.
>
>Deb Houdek Rule
>http://www.dahoudek.com
>http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
>http://www.heinleinsociety.org
>http://www.heinleinprize.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23739
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 03:57:11 GMT
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica--
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
>Space: Above and Beyond; Babylon 5; and Star Gate SG-1?
Never saw "Space: Above and Beyond" --is good? Worth seeking out?
"Babylon 5", one of the best three hard sf series made. Ivanova is
one of the best female characters ever on tv. I very much want to buy
the DVDs but they're badly overpriced. I've been watching some
"X-Files" on Sci-Fi, but mostly over the years any time I turned
Sci-Fi channel on all I saw was dark, gloomy,
aliens-jumping-out-of-people's-chests type of stuff. More horror-type
stuff seemed to dominate their original programming than anything
else. Bleak, miserable futures. And neato spfx space battles are not
interesting if the 'verse they're fighting for is too depressing to
live in. I just gave up on them. Watched Harlan Ellison's sf news
program when Sci-Fi Ch was new but they dropped that a long time ago.
"Stargate" reminded me, unfortunately, of tv series like "Logan's
Run"--a somewhat tedious repetition of the same thing in the same
setting every week except instead of the dull brown California hills
it looked like the British Columbia pine forests and they seem to have
only three scripts (like the unfortunate "Enterprise"). I didn't
dislike the show but also was never grabbed by it. I saw "Stargate" at
work in reruns, paid to watch, BTW, which is how I end up watching
most shows I do (and is why tv people aren't supposed to answer
Nielson ratings). Would never have watched "Smallville" any other
way--not a Superman fan, never read a Superman comic or watched a
whole movie, but "Smallville" has had some really good moments though
has been uneven season to season.
It's a negative side to working in tv--so wrapped up in certain
aspects (whether it's certain networks or productions) that others are
missed. That's why I'd never heard of "Firefly" until I started
getting the 'Amazon recommends'--no one pays me to watch FOX and
nothing about them recently compelled me to. And it is how I got
started watching "Buffy, the Vampire Slayer" (am paid to watch WB),
never would have gotten past the teenybopper title otherwise to the
absolutely brilliant writing, characters and plot development. Just
been watching season 6 on DVD. The musical episode, "Once More, With
Feeling" is sheer genius, and I generally don't even like musicals. I
like this one better every time I watch it.
Deb Houdek Rule
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.heinleinprize.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23740
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 04:06:50 GMT
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica--
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
>I'd mercifully forgotten the 80s series until
>you mentioned it. [g]
[snarf!] Sorry 'bout that.
The best episode of "Galactica 1980" was the one telling Starbuck's
fate, mostly because he was the most interesting character they had on
the show to that point...or ever, really. But when he's splicing
together part of one of their Vipers to one of the Cylon's ships I
recall my brother commenting, "Have you ever tried to put a Chevy
transmission in a Ford?". Kinda profound, actually--Starbuck managing
to hook together alien technologies with no more than gaffer's tape
and wire when two human-made vehicles of nearly identical design can't
be merged. It was an sf epiphany moment for me.
Deb Houdek Rule
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.heinleinprize.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23741
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 04:24:40 GMT
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica--
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
> I liked the original Battlestar when it first came out in spite
>of it's obvious failings. They lacked Speilburg's budget and didn't
>compare to Star Wars for FX.
The original Battlestar Galactica was a million per episode which
was a groundbreakingly huge price at the time (bearing in mind "Star
Wars" was $10 million for a feature film). I never felt a lack in the
spfx in Battlestar Galactica (which, bear in mind, was seen at the
time mostly on 19 inch tvs that weren't even Trinatrons)--it was more
a failing on the part of Glenn Larson (of whom I am a sincere fan) to
understand the essential nature of science fiction--even just in
little things like differentiating between inter-stellar and
inter-galactic. Kind of a big difference.
Then there was the whole no-purpose in their stops along the
way--the F&SF reviewer hit it splendidly at the time, saying they were
just 'stopping to use the bathrooms' at the various planets, rather
than having any driving purpose in the stop. The Enterprise in Star
Trek:TOS had a reason for going where they went, the Galactica wasn't
really interested in any of their stopping points; just fighting a
running battle on their way to--apparently--draw the Cylons to a
defenseless Earth. The no-purpose is something the new series will
have to fight, too.
Deb Houdek Rule
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.heinleinprize.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23742
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 23:59:38 -0500
Subject: Re: David Weber/Honor Harrington novels
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Everyone please feel free to download them. I have the permission of
the publisher to do this. Feel free to share them with friends. You
just can't sell them.
Kevin
Kevin Patrick Crowley wrote:
> http://www.crowleyenterprises.com/jt.zip
>
> Is the entire Honor Harrington Series in HTML format. I think I got all
> of them except for the New Flint Weber collaboration.
>
> Kevin
>
> I'll leave it there at least a week.
>
>
> JT wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:02:20 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
>> <kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I have all the Baen Cd Isos if anyone wants they usually contain the
>>> entire backlist for the author of the book,
>>
>>
>>
>> Sure, now you tell me. ;)
>>
>> JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23743
From: Lorrita Morgan"
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 14:46:53 -0700
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica--
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
When I moved I had to get cable or not have TV at all. Have enjoyed
watching "Farscape" on SciFi. The science seems lacking at times but then
I'm a Social Worker. I pay more attention to sentient being interaction
than the probability of the situation.
"5 Days to Midnight" disappointed me. I think they could have used that
extra hour better. The ending fell flat.
But back to the new Battlestar. I was accused of naming my daughter for a
character in the original series which I had seen maybe half an episode of
at the time. (Athena, 1978) I have seen more in reruns since. I remain a
loyal devotee of Montgomery Scott.
The mini-series was interesting. I liked the cylon, Number Six. She's
scary. Since I have no emotional attachment to Starbuck as a male, I
enjoyed the idea of a women playing this hard core, two fisted fighter
pilot. I know women in uniform like that. I was one.
I don't know if I'll set a VCR for the new series. I will probably watch an
episode or two and then decide if it's worth a permanent slot on the timer.
--
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
`rita
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
news:lel4d01pfr30usitgqqi11oqv95b1jrag0@4ax.com...
> Deb: I'm not saying that the so-called Sci-Fi channel has good SF,
> just that I have seen some good shows playing there. Did you like:
> Space: Above and Beyond; Babylon 5; and Star Gate SG-1? I don't
> know if these three showed in your part of the world, but I thought
> that they were worthy of the title "SF" most of the time.
> I liked the original Battlestar when it first came out in spite
> of it's obvious failings. They lacked Speilburg's budget and didn't
> compare to Star Wars for FX.
>
> Ed J
>
> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 06:22:28 GMT, debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek
> Rule) wrote:
>
> >>Yeah, well, for eye candy the show wasn't bad. It remains to be seen
> >>how it will do as an ongoing series. Good thing, because it left way
> >>too much open as a miniseries.
> >
> > Didn't know it was going to be a series. The falling asleep several
> >times during it probably not a good sign of my liking the show.
> >
> > Not so much a kid during the original. ;-) Though dismayed by its
> >science fiction quality (or lack thereof), still liked it--the
> >characters and such. Hence the shock of Starbuck becoming a girl in
> >this new incarnation.
> >
> > Remember the sequel/spin-off, "Galactica 1980"? Ghastly.
> >
> > Sci-Fi Channel didn't do badly with their "Dune" mini-series. The
> >one from the first book not bad at all, a credible job. Certainly
> >better than that overpriced gawdawful movie of around 1984-ish. The
> >second Sci-Fi Ch. mini-series, "Children of Dune" or "Dune Messiah"
> >(can't recall what they called it--seemed to cover both books) was
> >pretty dull, but then the material in those books wasn't as good
> >either.
> >
> > Kind of a shame to have a tv channel allegedly devoted to science
> >fiction--or 'sci-fi' as the case may be--and never watch it because
> >there's no decent science fiction on it.
> >
> >Deb Houdek Rule
> >http://www.dahoudek.com
> >http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
> >http://www.heinleinsociety.org
> >http://www.heinleinprize.com
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23744
From: JT
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 18:44:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica--
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 03:57:11 GMT, debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek
Rule) wrote:
> And it is how I got
>started watching "Buffy, the Vampire Slayer" (am paid to watch WB),
>never would have gotten past the teenybopper title otherwise to the
>absolutely brilliant writing, characters and plot development. Just
>been watching season 6 on DVD. The musical episode, "Once More, With
>Feeling" is sheer genius, and I generally don't even like musicals. I
>like this one better every time I watch it.
>
Agreed. I skipped buying Season 5 for now but bought Season 6 just to
watch OMWF on DVD.
I really miss the Buffyverse. Hope the animated series gets picked up
somewhere.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23745
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 07:26:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica--
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
>Agreed. I skipped buying Season 5 for now but bought Season 6 just to
>watch OMWF on DVD.
Downbeat though it is, I think Season 6 is their finest work after
Season 3. In many ways better as it deals with some harder issues and
enormously tougher things for the characters to deal with. The episode
where Buffy tells Spike that she was in heaven, not hell, is
outstanding in the writing, characterizations, and--of course--the
acting. Though I hold 3 as the best as that's the year it all totally
clicked into place, show and characters hit their stride, and
everything worked so well.
>I really miss the Buffyverse. Hope the animated series gets picked up
>somewhere.
The canceling of Angel sucked. The last part of the season felt
rushed, too, like there was more setup meant to happen that never got
the chance. Liked the way they ended, though. "...slay the dragon."
Nice.
Didn't hear about an animated series. Buffy & Co., or some other
slayer(s)?
Big void left in quality/inovative tv with no Joss shows on. Hey,
how about another "Law and Order" rerun using one of their three stock
scripts?? I can generally tell you the 'surprise twist' from the first
three minutes of show.
Deb Houdek Rule
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.heinleinprize.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23746
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 07:26:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica--
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
>When I moved I had to get cable or not have TV at all. Have enjoyed
>watching "Farscape" on SciFi.
I tried a few minutes of "Farscape" one night, but there were
muppets so I didn't get far. Haven't seen anything I much like in
muppets save for the first season of Saturday Night Live (1976, I
think it was). All right, barring Yoda (the sole saving grace of that
last abominable Star Wars movie... but, uh, Yoda's probably gone CGI,
hasn't he?).
>Since I have no emotional attachment to Starbuck as a male, I
>enjoyed the idea of a women playing this hard core, two fisted fighter
>pilot. I know women in uniform like that. I was one.
I'll grant you the falling asleep and the aforementioned emotional
attachment to original Starbuck may have clouded my view of the new
girly Starbuck ;-) But what I did see didn't sell me. She just seemed
crude and a male-written character cast as a female. How did Ivanova
on Babylon 5 strike you? She was tough and a fighter, but still
intrinsically female. Likewise Dana Scully on XFiles--though not a
fighter she was no dainty fainting flower girl. She was tough and cool
yet still believably female. How did those characters compare for you
to Starbuck-girl? And real women like that?
Deb Houdek Rule
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.heinleinprize.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23747
From: JT
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 14:45:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica--
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 07:26:18 GMT, debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek
Rule) wrote:
> Didn't hear about an animated series. Buffy & Co., or some other
>slayer(s)?
>
The Scoobies, but back in the High School years. Jeph Loeb has said
it's "Buffy Year One" except that Dawn is in the continuity now. For
the pilot, at least, they used the same woman that did Buffy's voice
in the video games--and she's quite good.
There's a bunch of preliminary artwork out there on the internet. If
you want to keep up on all things Whedon look at www.buffy.nu once a
week or so. Really the best site out there for news.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23748
From: Charles Graft
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:57:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Congratulations on the flight!!!!!
As I once said:
> NASA also is interested, said Michael Lembeck, requirements division
director of the space agency's
> Office of Exploration Systems.
> ''We need people like Burt Rutan with innovative ideas that will take
us to the moon and Mars,'' he
> said from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration
headquarters. ''Folks like Burt bring a
> different way of doing business.''
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Seen on the door to a light-wave lab: 'Do not look into laser with
remaining good eye.'"
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23749
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 13:52:01 -0400
Subject: Supreme Court: Citizen Identification
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"It couldn't happen here" dept:
The US Supreme court dealt a blow to individual liberty today
with it's latest ruling. Soon, we won't have to watch an old movie
or news-reel about Nazi Germany to hear the words "Papers Please".
I was offended ten years ago when my local township Police Dept.
(Winslow Twp, NJ) set up periodic road blocks to stop all citizens
and check to see if we had valid papers for our cars. Driver's
License, registration and insurance cards were checked. No probable
cause, just stop and check one and all.
Ed J
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23750
From: JT
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 19:20:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:57:58 -0500, Charles Graft <chasgraft@aol.com>
wrote:
>Congratulations on the flight!!!!!
>
I took advantage of the fact that I supervise a room with cable TV to
slip away and watch the landing. It was pretty exciting even though
the landing was not very exciting. ;)
So who's got $100,000 to buy a ticket?
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23751
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 23:22:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT: I didn't expect to see a front 'skid plate' for a landing gear.
Three times the speed of sound. That is about one tenth the
speed needed to place something into Low Earth Orbit (roughly 18,000
mph for LEO) It takes more energy but less orbital velocity to be
in a higher orbit.
This was a sub-orbital flight similar to what the late Alan B.
Shepard did way back in May of 1961 in his Mercury capsule. That
capsule was cool at the time. It seems like a bore compared to
Rutan's reusable space plane of 2004.
Congrats on opening up the Space Race to private enterprise.
INHO, RAH would have been proud of this first tiny step for free
enterprise.
Ed J
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 19:20:31 -0400, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:57:58 -0500, Charles Graft <chasgraft@aol.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Congratulations on the flight!!!!!
>>
>
>I took advantage of the fact that I supervise a room with cable TV to
>slip away and watch the landing. It was pretty exciting even though
>the landing was not very exciting. ;)
>
>So who's got $100,000 to buy a ticket?
>
>JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23752
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 00:55:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
What a lovely sight it was. Did you see the in-cockpit video? Forget the
M&Ms floating around, I like seeing the sky turn many shades of blue to
black!
They still need to do it again and again, twice with 3 people or "people
weight" on board.
WJaKe
Who is looking to raise the limit on his credit card....
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23753
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 00:56:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote
> Congrats on opening up the Space Race to private enterprise.
> INHO, RAH would have been proud of this first tiny step for free
> enterprise.
Like I said earlier....could RAH have been wrong? Space ships don't have to
take off and land tail first? I feel faint....
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23754
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 08:36:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Jake: Wait until there is a little more competition; that
should drive the price of a ride to space down.
You know what they say: "One small step for a man = one lifetime
of credit card debt." <G,D&R>
Ed J
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 00:55:57 -0400, "William J. Keaton"
<wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>What a lovely sight it was. Did you see the in-cockpit video? Forget the
>M&Ms floating around, I like seeing the sky turn many shades of blue to
>black!
>
>They still need to do it again and again, twice with 3 people or "people
>weight" on board.
>
>WJaKe
>
>Who is looking to raise the limit on his credit card....
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23755
From: JT
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:12:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 23:22:05 -0400, Ed Johnson
<eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote:
> Congrats on opening up the Space Race to private enterprise.
>INHO, RAH would have been proud of this first tiny step for free
>enterprise.
The headline on the Baltimore Sun article today was "Space,
Incorporated."
I thought that was great, and looked up the RAH Concordance, but the
nearest thing he did was "Spaceways, Ltd.". ;)
And that's the closest RAH discussion I have had in months! <VBG>
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23756
From: Bill Dauphin
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:39:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 6/22/04 12:56 AM, in article 40d7bbe8.0@news.sff.net, "William J. Keaton"
<wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
> Like I said earlier....could RAH have been wrong? Space ships don't have to
> take off and land tail first?
Not so fast, pilgrim! Check out this video clip of what John Carmack and
Armadillo are up to:
http://media.armadilloaerospace.com/2004_06_15/perfectBoostedHop.mpg
Now that Scaled seems to have a lock on the X-Prize, Carmack says they're
going to slow down their development program, but they're not going to stop
and their ultimate goal is an orbital vehicle. You may get to orbit "the way
God and Robert Heinlein intended"!
-JovBill
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23757
From: Lorrita Morgan"
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:54:02 -0700
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica--
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Deb Houdek Rule" <debrule@dahoudek.com> wrote in message
news:40d639eb.35269074@NEWS.SFF.NET...
> >Since I have no emotional attachment to Starbuck as a male, I
> >enjoyed the idea of a women playing this hard core, two fisted fighter
> >pilot. I know women in uniform like that. I was one.
>
> I'll grant you the falling asleep and the aforementioned emotional
> attachment to original Starbuck may have clouded my view of the new
> girly Starbuck ;-) But what I did see didn't sell me. She just seemed
> crude and a male-written character cast as a female. How did Ivanova
> on Babylon 5 strike you? She was tough and a fighter, but still
> intrinsically female. Likewise Dana Scully on XFiles--though not a
> fighter she was no dainty fainting flower girl. She was tough and cool
> yet still believably female. How did those characters compare for you
> to Starbuck-girl? And real women like that?
Ivanova was a nice compromise. She wasn't afraid to get her hands dirty but
"cleaned up nice." She probably felt she had to walk a middle road to keep
her secrets hidden. There were flashes of a wilder and a milder Ivanova
under that cool exterior. I missed a season or so of B5 due to syndication
not being picked locally. Most women currently serving in pay grades above
E-4 and O-3 are like her, especially those in "male" jobs. Compare Ivanova
to Catherine Bell's Sarah Mackenzie on JAG.
Scully is a bit more complex--not a total victim but not a total hero
either. Mulder also fit into that mold. Unfortunately, most humans match
up with them.
"Starbuck" if she lives long enough will find out whether she really has to
be "one of the boys" or if her colleagues will accept her when she's not the
toughest dick in the cockpit. Ivanova and Scully had found their places in
their worlds and were comfortable enough with who they were to accept those
places. "Starbuck" is still trying to figure it all out.
We all do strange things when we are trying to prove something to ourselves
or others. Sometimes we look very foolish doing it. Women seem to think
that that they either have to become just like their male counterparts or
dress up the job in "lace and flowers." I sometimes shudder to think about
the fights I got into, the ammount of alcohol and tobacco consumed, and the
other very risky behaviors I engaged in just to "prove" that I was as good
or better than the men I served with. I watch younger women do the same
things and cringe.
--
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
`rita
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23758
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:45:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT: Was it ten years ago that the DC-X project was under way? It
couldn't have been that long ago. That craft and that project was
rocket travel the way God and Heinlein intended it! <g> Lift-off
straight up and land on your jets! It seemed too good to be true to
my astounded eyes.
Ed J
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:12:33 -0400, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 21
<snip>
>
>I thought that was great, and looked up the RAH Concordance, but the
>nearest thing he did was "Spaceways, Ltd.". ;)
>
>And that's the closest RAH discussion I have had in months! <VBG>
>
>JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23759
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:53:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JovBill: What an amazing film clip!!! They have every right to
cheer like maniacs! I was cheering by the second time I played that
clip. The first time I was too stunned (in disbelief!) to react.
Thanks for that link.
Ed J
This is home for them:
http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/Armadillo/Home
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:39:30 -0400, Bill Dauphin
<dauphinb@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On 6/22/04 12:56 AM, in article 40d7bbe8.0@news.sff.net, "William J. Keaton"
><wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>> Like I said earlier....could RAH have been wrong? Space ships don't have to
>> take off and land tail first?
>
>Not so fast, pilgrim! Check out this video clip of what John Carmack and
>Armadillo are up to:
>
>http://media.armadilloaerospace.com/2004_06_15/perfectBoostedHop.mpg
>
>Now that Scaled seems to have a lock on the X-Prize, Carmack says they're
>going to slow down their development program, but they're not going to stop
>and their ultimate goal is an orbital vehicle. You may get to orbit "the way
>God and Robert Heinlein intended"!
>
>-JovBill
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23760
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 23 Jun 2004 05:18:50 GMT
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Carmack is a Heinleiner, no doubt about it. I wrote him once, to see if
he'd noticed the Heinlein Prize, and he actually responded --given he must
see about 40 zillion emails per day about DOOM and QUAKE, I was quite surprised
he responded.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23761
From: JT
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:32:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica--
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:54:02 -0700, "Lorrita Morgan"
<lorrita_m@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I sometimes shudder to think about
>the fights I got into, the ammount of alcohol and tobacco consumed, and the
>other very risky behaviors I engaged in just to "prove" that I was as good
>or better than the men I served with. I watch younger women do the same
>things and cringe.
Seems to me that's as much 'youth' as anything else. ;)
I can't recall how exactly I read the novelization of the Galactica
remake, but I did. Starbuck was a lot more sympathetic and
fleshed-out. While I liked Dirk Benedict, I am willing to give the
female Starbuck a chance now.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23762
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 21:48:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT: One hundred large to take only ONE flight?. I can't wait for
the price to come down <g>.
Ed J
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell
the difference.
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 19:20:31 -0400, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:57:58 -0500, Charles Graft <chasgraft@aol.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Congratulations on the flight!!!!!
>>
>
>I took advantage of the fact that I supervise a room with cable TV to
>slip away and watch the landing. It was pretty exciting even though
>the landing was not very exciting. ;)
>
>So who's got $100,000 to buy a ticket?
>
>JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23763
From: Ariel@sff.net (Catherine Hampton)
Date: 24 Jun 2004 17:47:34 GMT
Subject: Space Ship One: Report and Pictures :)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
It was great! I'm back, and have a preliminary report and some pictures
posted on my web site. The direct link is:
http://www.devsite.org/lab/spaceshipone/
Enjoy, and send any bug reports or suggestions for links/etc. to me at my
personal email address below.
--
Ariel, aka Catherine Hampton
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23764
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 13:55:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Space Ship One: Report and Pictures :)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Nice pics.
I spotted an error though in on of the captions.
The White Knight and Space Ship One fly over the airport while climbing
to 80,000 km (50,000 ft) altitude.
That equals 1.6 kilometers per foot.
Kevin
Catherine Hampton wrote:
> It was great! I'm back, and have a preliminary report and some pictures
> posted on my web site. The direct link is:
>
> http://www.devsite.org/lab/spaceshipone/
>
> Enjoy, and send any bug reports or suggestions for links/etc. to me at my
> personal email address below.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23765
From: Ariel@sff.net (Catherine Hampton)
Date: 24 Jun 2004 20:34:03 GMT
Subject: Re: Space Ship One: Report and Pictures :)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
> I spotted an error though in on of the captions.
>> The White Knight and Space Ship One fly over the airport while
>> climbing to 80,000 km (50,000 ft) altitude.
> That equals 1.6 kilometers per foot.
That equals a brain fart. Fixed, and thank you!
--
Catherine Hampton
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23766
From: JT
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 19:17:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Space Ship One: Report and Pictures :)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 24 Jun 2004 17:47:34 GMT, Ariel@sff.net (Catherine Hampton) wrote:
>It was great! I'm back, and have a preliminary report and some pictures
>posted on my web site. The direct link is:
>
>http://www.devsite.org/lab/spaceshipone/
>
>Enjoy, and send any bug reports or suggestions for links/etc. to me at my
>personal email address below.
Very much enjoyed your account and pictures!
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23767
From: JT
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 19:19:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 00:55:57 -0400, "William J. Keaton"
<wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>What a lovely sight it was. Did you see the in-cockpit video? Forget the
>M&Ms floating around, I like seeing the sky turn many shades of blue to
>black!
>
Can you (or someone) post a link to the in-cockpit video? A quick
search of scaled.com and even googling didn't turn anything up for me.
Maybe I was just looking too fast, but....
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23768
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 01:17:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
The in-cockpit video I saw was on CNN or one of the other cable news
channels.
I've been searching, but I can't find a link to the video anywhere online.
The pics from www.scaled.com are very cool as well.
WJaKe
"JT" <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote
>
> Can you (or someone) post a link to the in-cockpit video? A quick
> search of scaled.com and even googling didn't turn anything up for me.
> Maybe I was just looking too fast, but....
>
> JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23769
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 01:18:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Space Ship One: Report and Pictures :)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Catherine Hampton" <Ariel@sff.net> wrote in message
news:40db13b6.0@news.sff.net...
> It was great! I'm back, and have a preliminary report and some pictures
> posted on my web site. The direct link is:
>
> http://www.devsite.org/lab/spaceshipone/
>
Great pictures, and a wonderful page! Many thanks!
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23770
From: David Wright"
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 06:22:58 -0400
Subject: Latest Readers Group Logs Now available
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
The logs for the last two sets of discussions on the Heinlein Readers Group
are now available on the Heinlein Society Website. The index is
http://heinleinsociety.org/readersgroup/index.html
The topics were "Warm Body Democracy in Heinlein" for the discussions on
6/03 and 6/05 and "Humor In Heinlein" for 6/17 and 6/19.
--
David Wright
Anytime is a good time to join The Heinlein Society
http://heinleinsociety.org/join.html
Keep Up with the Latest
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/updates.html
Benefit The Heinlein Society by ordering books thru
http://home.alltel.net/dwrighsr/heinlein-amazon.htm
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23771
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 07:46:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Space Ship One: Report and Pictures :)
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Ariel:
Thanks for some great reporting and for sharing those pictures!
Ed J
(5 miles per sec/8km per sec will achieve LEO; 7mps/11km per sec
is "escape velocity". You also have to be above the effective
atmosphere and aimed in the right direction <g>.)
On 24 Jun 2004 17:47:34 GMT, Ariel@sff.net (Catherine Hampton)
wrote:
>It was great! I'm back, and have a preliminary report and some pictures
>posted on my web site. The direct link is:
>
>http://www.devsite.org/lab/spaceshipone/
>
>Enjoy, and send any bug reports or suggestions for links/etc. to me at my
>personal email address below.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23772
From: cdozo
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 10:34:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
There's a link called "Watch the flight of Burt Rutan's SpaceShipOne,"
on the right hand side of the page at:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/05/13/private.space.ship/
My computer's not up to snuff, so I can't watch the video. Let me know
if it's what you are looking for.
Carol
=========
JT wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 00:55:57 -0400, "William J. Keaton"
> <wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>
>>What a lovely sight it was. Did you see the in-cockpit video? Forget the
>>M&Ms floating around, I like seeing the sky turn many shades of blue to
>>black!
>>
>
>
> Can you (or someone) post a link to the in-cockpit video? A quick
> search of scaled.com and even googling didn't turn anything up for me.
> Maybe I was just looking too fast, but....
>
> JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23773
From: JT
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 17:10:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Rutan to Go for 100 K Limit
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 10:34:10 -0500, cdozo <cadozo@planet-save.com>
wrote:
>There's a link called "Watch the flight of Burt Rutan's SpaceShipOne,"
>on the right hand side of the page at:
>http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/05/13/private.space.ship/
>
>My computer's not up to snuff, so I can't watch the video. Let me know
>if it's what you are looking for.
>
I'm not up to paying for the video, either, so I don't know if it had
the cockpit video in it. :(
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23774
From: Charles Graft
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 00:59:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Supreme Court: Citizen Identification
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Ed--
What this should not be is surprising. No branch of government is
interested in less power. Until we get to the point that the
Libertarians at least carry the balance of power, things will not get
any better. But people who get back a pittance in exchange for their
ridiculous taxes seem to think they are getting a bargain.
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Seen on the door to a light-wave lab: 'Do not look into laser with
remaining good eye.'"
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23775
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:15:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Supreme Court: Citizen Identification
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Sad but true.
Ed J
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 00:59:46 -0500, Charles Graft
<chasgraft@aol.com> wrote:
>Ed--
> What this should not be is surprising. No branch of government is
>interested in less power. Until we get to the point that the
>Libertarians at least carry the balance of power, things will not get
>any better. But people who get back a pittance in exchange for their
>ridiculous taxes seem to think they are getting a bargain.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23776
From: les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 01:23:15 GMT
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica--
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Hey guys,
Just got cable! Wow! So when is this Battlestar Galactica show on?
I think I might like to look at it. I have very fond memories of the
old show too.
Les
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:32:11 -0400, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:54:02 -0700, "Lorrita Morgan"
><lorrita_m@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>I sometimes shudder to think about
>>the fights I got into, the ammount of alcohol and tobacco consumed, and the
>>other very risky behaviors I engaged in just to "prove" that I was as good
>>or better than the men I served with. I watch younger women do the same
>>things and cringe.
>
>Seems to me that's as much 'youth' as anything else. ;)
>
>I can't recall how exactly I read the novelization of the Galactica
>remake, but I did. Starbuck was a lot more sympathetic and
>fleshed-out. While I liked Dirk Benedict, I am willing to give the
>female Starbuck a chance now.
>
>JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23777
From: les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 01:28:26 GMT
Subject: Re: David Weber/Honor Harrington novels
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Oh darn. Always late. Would you be willing to repost that so's I
could download it too? Pretty please?
Les
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 23:59:38 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
<kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>Everyone please feel free to download them. I have the permission of
>the publisher to do this. Feel free to share them with friends. You
>just can't sell them.
>
>Kevin
>
>Kevin Patrick Crowley wrote:
>> http://www.crowleyenterprises.com/jt.zip
>>
>> Is the entire Honor Harrington Series in HTML format. I think I got all
>> of them except for the New Flint Weber collaboration.
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> I'll leave it there at least a week.
>>
>>
>> JT wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:02:20 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
>>> <kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I have all the Baen Cd Isos if anyone wants they usually contain the
>>>> entire backlist for the author of the book,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sure, now you tell me. ;)
>>>
>>> JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23778
From: les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 01:29:48 GMT
Subject: Re: David Weber/Honor Harrington novels
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I read Honor of the Queen a number of years ago and enjoyed it very
much. Reading the entire series is on my to-read list, but I kinda
want to wait till the whole series is done too. Do you know how many
more Weber expects to write?
Les
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:27:30 -0400, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
>Anyone else read any of these books? I read the first two because
>they were free downloads from Baen (their Baen Free Library is great)
>and I like to keep a book in my PocketPC for unexpected "down
>moments".
>
>After I finished the second book, I found out that the tenth book
>shipped with a CD containing all ten books (plus a whole bunch more
>Baen books, as it turns out). So I bought the tenth book and I'm now
>reading book three. ;)
>
>I think I've established I'm a sucker for military SF!
>
>JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23779
From: les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 01:33:43 GMT
Subject: Probability Moon, Sun and Space - Nancy Kress
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Has anyone else read this series? I think it's really fun. Very easy
to read. But I have a question about it. Anyone out there think they
could help me?
Les
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23780
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:42:03 -0500
Subject: Re: David Weber/Honor Harrington novels
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Should be back on by 10pm central.
Kevin
Les Vrolyk wrote:
> Oh darn. Always late. Would you be willing to repost that so's I
> could download it too? Pretty please?
> Les
>
>
> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 23:59:38 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
> <kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Everyone please feel free to download them. I have the permission of
>>the publisher to do this. Feel free to share them with friends. You
>>just can't sell them.
>>
>>Kevin
>>
>>Kevin Patrick Crowley wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.crowleyenterprises.com/jt.zip
>>>
>>>Is the entire Honor Harrington Series in HTML format. I think I got all
>>>of them except for the New Flint Weber collaboration.
>>>
>>>Kevin
>>>
>>>I'll leave it there at least a week.
>>>
>>>
>>>JT wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:02:20 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
>>>><kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I have all the Baen Cd Isos if anyone wants they usually contain the
>>>>>entire backlist for the author of the book,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sure, now you tell me. ;)
>>>>
>>>>JT
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23781
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:45:22 -0500
Subject: Re: David Weber/Honor Harrington novels
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
There will be at minimum eight more books. Not counting side series and
anthologies. You may not want to wait
Kevin
Les Vrolyk wrote:
> I read Honor of the Queen a number of years ago and enjoyed it very
> much. Reading the entire series is on my to-read list, but I kinda
> want to wait till the whole series is done too. Do you know how many
> more Weber expects to write?
>
> Les
>
>
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:27:30 -0400, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Anyone else read any of these books? I read the first two because
>>they were free downloads from Baen (their Baen Free Library is great)
>>and I like to keep a book in my PocketPC for unexpected "down
>>moments".
>>
>>After I finished the second book, I found out that the tenth book
>>shipped with a CD containing all ten books (plus a whole bunch more
>>Baen books, as it turns out). So I bought the tenth book and I'm now
>>reading book three. ;)
>>
>>I think I've established I'm a sucker for military SF!
>>
>>JT
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23782
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:46:36 -0500
Subject: Re: David Weber/Honor Harrington novels
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
MAke that 9pm Central.
Kevin
Kevin Patrick Crowley wrote:
> Should be back on by 10pm central.
>
> Kevin
>
> Les Vrolyk wrote:
>
>> Oh darn. Always late. Would you be willing to repost that so's I
>> could download it too? Pretty please?
>> Les
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 23:59:38 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
>> <kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Everyone please feel free to download them. I have the permission of
>>> the publisher to do this. Feel free to share them with friends. You
>>> just can't sell them.
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>> Kevin Patrick Crowley wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.crowleyenterprises.com/jt.zip
>>>>
>>>> Is the entire Honor Harrington Series in HTML format. I think I got
>>>> all of them except for the New Flint Weber collaboration.
>>>>
>>>> Kevin
>>>>
>>>> I'll leave it there at least a week.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> JT wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:02:20 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
>>>>> <kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have all the Baen Cd Isos if anyone wants they usually contain
>>>>>> the entire backlist for the author of the book,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure, now you tell me. ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> JT
>>
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23783
From: Filksinger"
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:54:13 -0700
Subject: Re: Probability Moon, Sun and Space - Nancy Kress
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Les Vrolyk wrote:
> Has anyone else read this series? I think it's really fun. Very easy
> to read. But I have a question about it. Anyone out there think they
> could help me?
> Les
Sure. If I can't, my wife can. Because of problems with losing book 3, I
haven't finished it yet, but she did.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23784
From: les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk)
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 05:22:19 GMT
Subject: Re: Probability Moon, Sun and Space - Nancy Kress
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Thanks Filksinger!
I am actually about 1/2 way through book 2 now. My question is
probably really lame. I tend to fog out when I get to the science or
technical discussions in a book. So I may have just missed something.
Anyhow, in the first book when the "moon" explodes and takes along a
couple ships and ruins a few other planets, why doesn't it also
explode the "tunnel" it was about to go through? I'm figuring I must
have missed the explanation somewhere, but I'm too lazy to go back to
find it. Do you remember that part?
Les
On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:54:13 -0700, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>Les Vrolyk wrote:
>> Has anyone else read this series? I think it's really fun. Very easy
>> to read. But I have a question about it. Anyone out there think they
>> could help me?
>> Les
>
>Sure. If I can't, my wife can. Because of problems with losing book 3, I
>haven't finished it yet, but she did.
>
>--
>Filksinger
>AKA David Nasset, Sr.
>Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23785
From: les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk)
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 05:53:30 GMT
Subject: Re: David Weber/Honor Harrington novels
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Got it! Thanks!
On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:46:36 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
<kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>MAke that 9pm Central.
>
>Kevin
>
>Kevin Patrick Crowley wrote:
>
>> Should be back on by 10pm central.
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> Les Vrolyk wrote:
>>
>>> Oh darn. Always late. Would you be willing to repost that so's I
>>> could download it too? Pretty please?
>>> Les
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 23:59:38 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
>>> <kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Everyone please feel free to download them. I have the permission of
>>>> the publisher to do this. Feel free to share them with friends. You
>>>> just can't sell them.
>>>>
>>>> Kevin
>>>>
>>>> Kevin Patrick Crowley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.crowleyenterprises.com/jt.zip
>>>>>
>>>>> Is the entire Honor Harrington Series in HTML format. I think I got
>>>>> all of them except for the New Flint Weber collaboration.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll leave it there at least a week.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> JT wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:02:20 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
>>>>>> <kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have all the Baen Cd Isos if anyone wants they usually contain
>>>>>>> the entire backlist for the author of the book,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure, now you tell me. ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JT
>>>
>>>
>>>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23786
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 1 Jul 2004 06:07:02 GMT
Subject: Heinlein Society Awards Dinner Reservations Noreascon 4
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Make your reservations today to join THS in honoring Sir Arthur C. Clarke
as the 2004 recipient of the Heinlein Award for outstanding published works
of science fiction that inspire humanity's expansion into space.
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/specialoffers/dinnerreservations.html
There is a quantity capability on the Paypal code that will allow you to
pay for several reservations in one transaction.
Geo Rule
The Heinlein Society
www.heinleinsociety.org
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23787
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 10:25:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Heinlein Society Awards Dinner Reservations Noreascon 4
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I still haven't figured that award out. IIRC they weren't even talking
to each other at the time of RAH's death.
Sounds like a PR/fundraiser award.
Kevin
georule@civilwarstlouis.com wrote:
> Make your reservations today to join THS in honoring Sir Arthur C. Clarke
> as the 2004 recipient of the Heinlein Award for outstanding published works
> of science fiction that inspire humanity's expansion into space.
>
> http://www.heinleinsociety.org/specialoffers/dinnerreservations.html
>
> There is a quantity capability on the Paypal code that will allow you to
> pay for several reservations in one transaction.
>
> Geo Rule
> The Heinlein Society
> www.heinleinsociety.org
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23788
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 1 Jul 2004 18:50:09 GMT
Subject: Re: Heinlein Society Awards Dinner Reservations Noreascon 4
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
That is not correct. Ginny got them back together after the famous unhappiness
over SDI.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23789
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 14:10:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Heinlein Society Awards Dinner Reservations Noreascon 4
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I sit corrected.
Kevin
georule@civilwarstlouis.com wrote:
> That is not correct. Ginny got them back together after the famous unhappiness
> over SDI.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23790
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 06:13:05 -0700
Subject: Heinlein Society at Con Kopelli, July 2-5
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
The Heinlein Society will be participating in WesterCon 57, this
year known as Con Kopelli, and being held in the Phoenix suburb
of Litchfield Park, Arizona, starting today, Friday, July 2
through Monday, July 5, at the Wigwam Resort.
See, http://az-sf.org/
At our suggestion, Con Kopelli has enthusiastically adopted a
blood drive, which will be held Saturday, July 3, in the Wigwam
Foyer, 10 am to 4 pm. Please, "Pay It Forward," by making a
donation if you are able and live in the area. The usual blood
donor's pin designed by Robert Heinlein at the first blood drive
he sponsored in 1976 at MidAmericon, will be given donors, as
well as a plethora of other useful tokens.
Heinlein Society members will be participating in a variety of
panels. The theme of the SF Con is "Mythology of the Southwest."
Some of us may strive mightly to find a way to parlay that into a
discussion of Robert Heinlein or his influence. It may be amusing
to watch.
The Heinlein Society will have a fan table for those interested
in it, in membership, or in discussing goals to help "Pay It
Forward."
On Sunday, July 4, at 7 pm, sharp [!], there will be a showing of
"This Is the Most Important Day Since the Human Race Learned to
Talk!", the broadcast interview of Robert Heinlein and Arthur C.
Clarke, on the day of "man's first small steps" in June 1969, the
first Lunar Landing. It will be held in The Heinlein Society's
Suite, at the Wigwam Resort, 300 Wigwam Blvd, Litchfield Park,
Arizona in conjunction with a special meeting and reception for
members and invited guests only. You'll have to stop by the fan
table to find out the suite number, or call the hotel for the
number of the room registered in my and/or the Society's name.
This showing with be at a special meeting and reception for
Society members and their invited guests only. Let me know by
stopping by if you'd like an invitation. Wine and cheese.
The suite is a private hotel room, *not* in the Convention Party
Area, which guests may visit at the Society's invitation only, so
please, if you wish to attend, govern yourselves according,
bearing in mind that the hotel has guests who are not attending
the convention. You need not purchase a Con membership to attend
a private meeting in a hotel suite being held at the
hotel-resort; however, the convention is one of the most
worthwhile held in the area and you may find supporting it with a
one day or full membership quite worthwhile over the weekend.
Learn how we are paying it forward, and enjoy a little relaxation
on the 4th with us!
Hope to see you there, if you live in the Phoenix area, or are
visiting.
--
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23791
From: cdozo
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 23:50:33 -0500
Subject: Heinlein Maneuver
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Check out:
http://www.hotliquor.com/heinlein.html
Carol
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23792
From: Filksinger"
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 22:03:35 -0700
Subject: Re: Probability Moon, Sun and Space - Nancy Kress
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
My apologies. Due to a variety of other commitments, I spent some time
before I could look for the answer, because I didn't understand the
question. I then spent some time confused and looking over a book that I
thought I knew well, but didn't have any answer. Only now, when I come back
to reply to you, do I realize that I mixed up a previous thread and your
request. I have been searching the second Honor Harrington novel for
something that happened in the "Probability" series. Doh!
Sorry, I have never read the "Probability" Trilogy by Nancy Kress.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
Les Vrolyk wrote:
> Thanks Filksinger!
> I am actually about 1/2 way through book 2 now. My question is
> probably really lame. I tend to fog out when I get to the science or
> technical discussions in a book. So I may have just missed something.
> Anyhow, in the first book when the "moon" explodes and takes along a
> couple ships and ruins a few other planets, why doesn't it also
> explode the "tunnel" it was about to go through? I'm figuring I must
> have missed the explanation somewhere, but I'm too lazy to go back to
> find it. Do you remember that part?
> Les
>
>
> On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:54:13 -0700, "Filksinger"
> <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>
>> Les Vrolyk wrote:
>>> Has anyone else read this series? I think it's really fun. Very
>>> easy to read. But I have a question about it. Anyone out there
>>> think they could help me?
>>> Les
>>
>> Sure. If I can't, my wife can. Because of problems with losing book
>> 3, I haven't finished it yet, but she did.
>>
>> --
>> Filksinger
>> AKA David Nasset, Sr.
>> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23793
From: RPostelnek"
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 22:39:01 -0500
Subject: Fourth of July
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
The Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies
In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to
dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to
assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to
which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect
to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes
which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that
among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure
these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just
powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of
Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People
to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its
foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to
them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence,
indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed
for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn,
that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than
to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the
same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is
their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide
new Guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance
of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to
alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of
Great Britain [George III] is a history of repeated injuries and
usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute
Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid
world.
He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the
public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing
importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be
obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts
of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation
in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants
only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable,
and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole
purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly
firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to
be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have
returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in
the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and
convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that
purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to
pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions
of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to
Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their
offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of
Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the consent
of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the
Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our
constitution and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts
of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which
they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us, in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province,
establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries
so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the
same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and
altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with
power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and
waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and
destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to
compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with
circumstances of Cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most
barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to
bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends
and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to
bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages,
whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages,
sexes and conditions.
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the
most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by
repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which
may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have
warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an
unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the
circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to
their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties
of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably
interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the
voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the
necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the
rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in
General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for
the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by the Authority of
the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these
United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States;
that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that
all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and
ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they
have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish
Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may
of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance
on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our
Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
The signers of the Declaration represented the new states as follows:
New Hampshire:
Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton
Massachusetts:
John Hancock, Samual Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry
Rhode Island:
Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery
Connecticut:
Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott
New York:
William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris
New Jersey:
Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham
Clark
Pennsylvania:
Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer,
James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross
Delaware:
Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean
Maryland:
Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton
Virginia:
George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas
Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton
North Carolina:
William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn
South Carolina:
Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton
Georgia:
Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton
For additional information about the Declaration of Independence, see these
sites:
a.. National Archives and Records Administration: Declaration of
Independence
b.. Library of Congress: About the Declaration of Independence
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23794
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 01:10:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Fourth of July
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Thank you, Rosie.
"RPostelnek" <rpostelnek@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:40e8cd63.0@news.sff.net...
>
>
> The Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies
> In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776
>
> The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23795
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 16:59:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Truman Lake
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Charlie:
Any idea where I can find the author of this quote:
"A free man cannot feel completely free, if there exists but one man
enslaved; and no slave need feel completely enslaved, if there
exists but one fee man."
I don't think that it's Thos Jefferson or RAH; but darned if I can
come up with who it might be. Sounds like a dyed-in-the-wool
Libertarian to me, I just not sure which.
Ed J
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:15:04 -0500, Charles Graft
<chasgraft@aol.com> wrote:
>To those old cobbers --
> This hits kind of close to home --
>
>> Winds were so strong on Truman Lake, about 70 miles southeast of
>Kansas City,
>> that a 16-foot boat was swamped by large waves. The body of the boat's
>owner,
>> Vance Wiles, 40, of Willard, Mo., was found along the shore Sunday,
>officials said.
>
> I remember some nice thunderstorm watching at that site. . . .
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23796
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 16:18:37 -0500
Subject: Baen CD's via bit-torrent
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
All of the CDs that have been released with Baen books can be downloaded
via bit-torrent at http://oberon.zlynx.org/ I am currently seeding all
of the ZIPPED CDs so download times should be only slow not Glacial.
There is a good chance that several other Baen Bar habitues(Barflies)
may also be seeding over the next few days to facilitate some transfers
to military personnel who are in the very far boonies but have decent
Internet access. If you do download it is considered good manners to
leave your client up for awhile so that your download can help others
download.
The rules of use for these CDs from Jim Baen are that you can copy as
many as you want and give then away free. You may not sell them for
profit but may recoup out of pocket expenses for copying and mailing.
Kevin
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23797
From: les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk)
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 15:36:02 GMT
Subject: Re: Probability Moon, Sun and Space - Nancy Kress
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Wow! After being soooo lazy myself about not looking back for the
answer, I feel kinda bad about sending you searching too! In the
wrong book no less! In any case, it's a good series and I'd recommend
it. Sorry Filksinger!
Les
On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 22:03:35 -0700, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>My apologies. Due to a variety of other commitments, I spent some time
>before I could look for the answer, because I didn't understand the
>question. I then spent some time confused and looking over a book that I
>thought I knew well, but didn't have any answer. Only now, when I come back
>to reply to you, do I realize that I mixed up a previous thread and your
>request. I have been searching the second Honor Harrington novel for
>something that happened in the "Probability" series. Doh!
>
>Sorry, I have never read the "Probability" Trilogy by Nancy Kress.
>
>--
>Filksinger
>AKA David Nasset, Sr.
>Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23798
From: les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk)
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 15:48:21 GMT
Subject: Re: Fourth of July
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Remembering the 4th...
We spent our 4th weekend in Idaho, celebrating with some old friends
of mine. I've never personally done so much 4th related partying. It
was fun! We had lots of BBQs and fireworks. The kids (there were
gobs of them) had a flag ceremony, marched and said the pledge. And
we remembered their brother, James Shull, who was killed a couple
months ago in Iraq. JP even gave blood.
I grew up a navy brat and have always felt that I have more
appreciation for living in these fine states than some, but I think I
have a little more now. We are so lucky to live here.
Les
On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 22:39:01 -0500, "RPostelnek"
<rpostelnek@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>
>The Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies
>In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776
>
>The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
>
>When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to
>dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to
>assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to
>which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect
>to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes
>which impel them to the separation.
>
>We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
>that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that
>among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure
>these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just
>powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of
>Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People
>to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its
>foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to
>them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence,
>indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed
>for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn,
>that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than
>to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
>But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the
>same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is
>their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide
>new Guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance
>of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to
>alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of
>Great Britain [George III] is a history of repeated injuries and
>usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute
>Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid
>world.
>
>He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the
>public good.
>
>He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing
>importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be
>obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
>
>He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts
>of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation
>in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants
>only.
>
>He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable,
>and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole
>purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
>
>He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly
>firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
>
>He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to
>be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have
>returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in
>the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and
>convulsions within.
>
>He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that
>purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to
>pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions
>of new Appropriations of Lands.
>
>He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to
>Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
>
>He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their
>offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
>
>He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of
>Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.
>
>He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the consent
>of our legislatures.
>
>He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the
>Civil power.
>
>He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our
>constitution and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts
>of pretended Legislation:
>
>For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
>
>For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which
>they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
>
>For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
>
>For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
>
>For depriving us, in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
>
>For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:
>
>For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province,
>establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries
>so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the
>same absolute rule into these Colonies:
>
>For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and
>altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
>
>For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with
>power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
>
>He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and
>waging War against us.
>
>He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and
>destroyed the lives of our people.
>
>He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to
>compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with
>circumstances of Cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most
>barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
>
>He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to
>bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends
>and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
>
>He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to
>bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages,
>whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages,
>sexes and conditions.
>
>In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the
>most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by
>repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which
>may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
>
>Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have
>warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an
>unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the
>circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to
>their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties
>of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably
>interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the
>voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the
>necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the
>rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
>
>We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in
>General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for
>the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by the Authority of
>the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these
>United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States;
>that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that
>all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and
>ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they
>have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish
>Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may
>of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance
>on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our
>Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
>
>The signers of the Declaration represented the new states as follows:
>New Hampshire:
>Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton
>Massachusetts:
>John Hancock, Samual Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry
>Rhode Island:
>Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery
>Connecticut:
>Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott
>
>New York:
>William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris
>New Jersey:
>Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham
>Clark
>Pennsylvania:
>Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer,
>James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross
>Delaware:
>Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean
>Maryland:
>Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton
>Virginia:
>George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas
>Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton
>North Carolina:
>William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn
>South Carolina:
>Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton
>Georgia:
>Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton
>
>
>For additional information about the Declaration of Independence, see these
>sites:
>
> a.. National Archives and Records Administration: Declaration of
>Independence
> b.. Library of Congress: About the Declaration of Independence
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23799
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 19:55:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Fourth of July
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Jake: Do you have any details on the upcoming Bosticon?
I'd like to help out in some small way if I can.
Ed J
On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 01:10:23 -0400, "William J. Keaton"
<wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>Thank you, Rosie.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23800
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 01:37:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Fourth of July
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
General info is here http://www.noreascon.org/
As for Heinlein Society specific info, we have the dinner, the annual
meeting and a blood drive. There was info on this stuff in the Heinlien
Society newsletter http://www.heinleinsociety.org/newsletters/index.html
Some of the dates are hinky, Geo posted a link to info on the dinner.
As for volunteering to help with HS activities, I am not the guy to ask at
the moment. I usually dedicate my volunteering time to the WorldCon Tech
crew; I have a number of freinds there.
David, anything to add?
WJaKe
"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
news:5knre0159e18ib8a0im2bkt9m1v274dkvi@4ax.com...
> Jake: Do you have any details on the upcoming Bosticon?
> I'd like to help out in some small way if I can.
>
> Ed J
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23801
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 23:42:22 -0700
Subject: Re: Fourth of July
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <40ee2eb4.0@news.sff.net>,
"William J. Keaton" <wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
> General info is here http://www.noreascon.org/
>
> As for Heinlein Society specific info, we have the dinner, the annual
> meeting and a blood drive. There was info on this stuff in the Heinlien
> Society newsletter http://www.heinleinsociety.org/newsletters/index.html
>
> Some of the dates are hinky, Geo posted a link to info on the dinner.
>
> As for volunteering to help with HS activities, I am not the guy to ask at
> the moment. I usually dedicate my volunteering time to the WorldCon Tech
> crew; I have a number of freinds there.
>
> David, anything to add?
>
> WJaKe
>
>
> "Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
> news:5knre0159e18ib8a0im2bkt9m1v274dkvi@4ax.com...
> > Jake: Do you have any details on the upcoming Bosticon?
> > I'd like to help out in some small way if I can.
> >
> > Ed J
>
>
I sure do. Ed: we can use all the help you can offer at the fan
table, selling dinner tickets and pushing membership. If you're
planning on staying at a hotel, consider the block booking we've
arranged at the Back Bay Hilton, for reasons we've explained in
the last newsletter. We'll have a newsletter out to arrive in
your box nlt August 1. More there, or e-mail me specifically, if
you have any idea of another area.
--
David M. Silver www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29, Lt.(jg), USN, R'td, 1907-88
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23802
From: Lorrita Morgan"
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 12:31:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Truman Lake
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Ed,
I'm not Charlie, but I enjoyed trying to track your quote. It sounds
familiar but may be paraphrased. Since all search engines failed to find
those exact words. Your spelling error and my dyslexia didn't help "cut and
paste" There is a Big difference between a "fee man" and a "Free Man." :-}
http://www.quotesandsayings.com/finquoteframes.htm
will let you search several databases from one location.
The closest I came to your quote was the Internet Movie Database in a long
speech from "The Great Dictator" (1940) Other search engines liked "Man and
Superman" by Shaw and The Lincoln-Douglas Debates.
http://www.ct71st.com/2003/iwns.html
is a interesting poem I found along the way
--
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
`rita
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
news:3h4me0pdvu54oims30j67g284556fo4nsf@4ax.com...
> Charlie:
> Any idea where I can find the author of this quote:
> "A free man cannot feel completely free, if there exists but one man
> enslaved; and no slave need feel completely enslaved, if there
> exists but one fee man."
> I don't think that it's Thos Jefferson or RAH; but darned if I can
> come up with who it might be. Sounds like a dyed-in-the-wool
> Libertarian to me, I just not sure which.
>
> Ed J
>
>
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:15:04 -0500, Charles Graft
> <chasgraft@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >To those old cobbers --
> > This hits kind of close to home --
> >
> >> Winds were so strong on Truman Lake, about 70 miles southeast of
> >Kansas City,
> >> that a 16-foot boat was swamped by large waves. The body of the boat's
> >owner,
> >> Vance Wiles, 40, of Willard, Mo., was found along the shore Sunday,
> >officials said.
> >
> > I remember some nice thunderstorm watching at that site. . . .
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23803
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 22:34:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Fourth of July
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
David:
Oops! As a Heinlein Society member, I must have missed the
newsletter in question (I must have missed most of them, come to
think of it!) So I don't know what you are referring to.
As you suggested, I will e-mail you direct. Hopefully, you have
selected the closest or nicest Hotel <g>.
Ed J
On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 23:42:22 -0700, "David M. Silver"
<ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote:
>In article <40ee2eb4.0@news.sff.net>,
> "William J. Keaton" <wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>> General info is here http://www.noreascon.org/
>>
>> As for Heinlein Society specific info, we have the dinner, the annual
>> meeting and a blood drive. There was info on this stuff in the Heinlien
>> Society newsletter http://www.heinleinsociety.org/newsletters/index.html
>>
>> Some of the dates are hinky, Geo posted a link to info on the dinner.
>>
>> As for volunteering to help with HS activities, I am not the guy to ask at
>> the moment. I usually dedicate my volunteering time to the WorldCon Tech
>> crew; I have a number of freinds there.
>>
>> David, anything to add?
>>
>> WJaKe
>>
>>
>> "Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
>> news:5knre0159e18ib8a0im2bkt9m1v274dkvi@4ax.com...
>> > Jake: Do you have any details on the upcoming Bosticon?
>> > I'd like to help out in some small way if I can.
>> >
>> > Ed J
>>
>>
>
>I sure do. Ed: we can use all the help you can offer at the fan
>table, selling dinner tickets and pushing membership. If you're
>planning on staying at a hotel, consider the block booking we've
>arranged at the Back Bay Hilton, for reasons we've explained in
>the last newsletter. We'll have a newsletter out to arrive in
>your box nlt August 1. More there, or e-mail me specifically, if
>you have any idea of another area.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23804
From: JT
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:03:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica--
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Les,
It should be on with the "new" shows of 2004-2005, I think. When I
see the publicity I'll post about it here.
JT
On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 01:23:15 GMT, les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk) wrote:
>Hey guys,
>Just got cable! Wow! So when is this Battlestar Galactica show on?
>I think I might like to look at it. I have very fond memories of the
>old show too.
>Les
>
>
>On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:32:11 -0400, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:54:02 -0700, "Lorrita Morgan"
>><lorrita_m@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>I sometimes shudder to think about
>>>the fights I got into, the ammount of alcohol and tobacco consumed, and the
>>>other very risky behaviors I engaged in just to "prove" that I was as good
>>>or better than the men I served with. I watch younger women do the same
>>>things and cringe.
>>
>>Seems to me that's as much 'youth' as anything else. ;)
>>
>>I can't recall how exactly I read the novelization of the Galactica
>>remake, but I did. Starbuck was a lot more sympathetic and
>>fleshed-out. While I liked Dirk Benedict, I am willing to give the
>>female Starbuck a chance now.
>>
>>JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23805
From: JT
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:04:30 -0400
Subject: Re: David Weber/Honor Harrington novels
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:45:22 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
<kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>There will be at minimum eight more books. Not counting side series and
>anthologies. You may not want to wait
>
>Kevin
Eight more! My god. I'm through book 8 right now courtesy of my
just-finished vacation. I'm expecting her to be Queen, then, by the
end of it all.... ;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23806
From: Robert A. Woodward"
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 18:46:45 -0700
Subject: Re: David Weber/Honor Harrington novels
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <sqo3f0tafeom0lvvr69j16pg8am20hmtna@4ax.com>,
JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:45:22 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
> <kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>
> >There will be at minimum eight more books. Not counting side series and
> >anthologies. You may not want to wait
> >
> >Kevin
>
> Eight more! My god. I'm through book 8 right now courtesy of my
> just-finished vacation. I'm expecting her to be Queen, then, by the
> end of it all.... ;)
I will warn you that some people (not me though) were disappointed
by both _Ashes of Victory_ and _War of Honor_.
Rumor has it that she will be killed in action in the last book
(like Nelson at his greatest victory). There is speculation that
Queen Elizabeth Winton III will be impeached (replaced by her son);
Weber mentioned that part of the Manticore constitution in his
background notes that appeared in _More than Honor_ and some people
read that to mean that it will be used.
--
Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com>
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23807
From: David Wright"
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 22:00:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica--
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"JT" <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote in message
news:0po3f0d86sosgvshl1hr69hvm578c8ilfq@4ax.com...
> Les,
>
> It should be on with the "new" shows of 2004-2005, I think. When I
> see the publicity I'll post about it here.
>
The ads say in January.
--
David Wright
Anytime is a good time to join The Heinlein Society
http://heinleinsociety.org/join.html
Keep Up with the Latest
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/updates.html
Benefit The Heinlein Society by ordering books thru
http://home.alltel.net/dwrighsr/heinlein-amazon.htm
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23808
From: Lorrita Morgan"
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 00:49:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica--
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/
Offical website. Last "What's New" was put up in May. The moderated board
has traffic. I did NOT read any posts.
I'm looking for my copies of Earthsea to reread before the miniseries
http://www.scifi.com/earthsea/ plays in December.
I hope they don't disappoint me.
--
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
`rita
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"JT" <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote in message
news:0po3f0d86sosgvshl1hr69hvm578c8ilfq@4ax.com...
> Les,
>
> It should be on with the "new" shows of 2004-2005, I think. When I
> see the publicity I'll post about it here.
>
> JT
>
> On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 01:23:15 GMT, les@vrolyk.org (Les Vrolyk) wrote:
>
> >Hey guys,
> >Just got cable! Wow! So when is this Battlestar Galactica show on?
> >I think I might like to look at it. I have very fond memories of the
> >old show too.
> >Les
> >
> >
> >On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:32:11 -0400, JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
> >
> >>On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:54:02 -0700, "Lorrita Morgan"
> >><lorrita_m@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>I sometimes shudder to think about
> >>>the fights I got into, the ammount of alcohol and tobacco consumed, and
the
> >>>other very risky behaviors I engaged in just to "prove" that I was as
good
> >>>or better than the men I served with. I watch younger women do the
same
> >>>things and cringe.
> >>
> >>Seems to me that's as much 'youth' as anything else. ;)
> >>
> >>I can't recall how exactly I read the novelization of the Galactica
> >>remake, but I did. Starbuck was a lot more sympathetic and
> >>fleshed-out. While I liked Dirk Benedict, I am willing to give the
> >>female Starbuck a chance now.
> >>
> >>JT
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23809
From: Kevin Patrick Crowley
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:04:46 -0500
Subject: Re: David Weber/Honor Harrington novels
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
There is also some foreshadowing that Honor will have to puul the Queen
up by the shorthairs about Haven sometime in the not too distant future.
I Liked Ashes of Victory and War of Honor. Haven't met anyone yet who
disliked them but I hang out with people who have more than a bit of
hero worship when it comes to David Weber so my sample is highly skewed.
Kevin
Robert A. Woodward wrote:
> In article <sqo3f0tafeom0lvvr69j16pg8am20hmtna@4ax.com>,
> JT <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote:
>
>
>>On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:45:22 -0500, Kevin Patrick Crowley
>><kevin.crowley@crowleyenterprises.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>There will be at minimum eight more books. Not counting side series and
>>>anthologies. You may not want to wait
>>>
>>>Kevin
>>
>>Eight more! My god. I'm through book 8 right now courtesy of my
>>just-finished vacation. I'm expecting her to be Queen, then, by the
>>end of it all.... ;)
>
>
> I will warn you that some people (not me though) were disappointed
> by both _Ashes of Victory_ and _War of Honor_.
>
> Rumor has it that she will be killed in action in the last book
> (like Nelson at his greatest victory). There is speculation that
> Queen Elizabeth Winton III will be impeached (replaced by her son);
> Weber mentioned that part of the Manticore constitution in his
> background notes that appeared in _More than Honor_ and some people
> read that to mean that it will be used.
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23810
From: Charles Graft
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:48:04 -0500
Subject: Identification
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
All--
I sadly predicted it -- here it comes:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mexican Officials Implanted With Microchips
> Getting 'Tagged' Permits Special Access to Secure Areas
> By WILL WEISSERT, AP
> MEXICO CITY (July 15) - Security has reached the subcutaneous level
for Mexico's attorney
> general and at least 160 people in his office - they have been
implanted with microchips that get them
> access to secure areas of their headquarters.
See:
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/07/13/mexico.chip.reut/index.html
Security at Denver airport last Monday morning took about 45
minutes. And it has gotten more ridiculous. Now camcorders also have
to come out of bags and be separately scanned; shoes must come off
("Metal is not the only thing we check for").
And it was delaying flights -- passengers had checked bags already
and were being held up. This puts the airline between a rock and a hard
place. They may not send the plane out with the baggage of the
passenger unless the passenger is aboard. So either the baggage must be
removed or you must wait for the passenger. It would probably take
longer to identify and remove the baggage.
(Except in special circumstances. I found on a trip last week
that the card I carry that identifies me as an airline parent allows me
to let my baggage go on to my ultimate destination without my having to
transfer it to the flights I am actually on.)
The day when you can bypass security with a chip is nearly here.
Our society is in deep trouble.
Comment?
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Seen on the door to a light-wave lab: 'Do not look into laser with
remaining good eye.'"
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23811
From: Charles Graft
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:15:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Fourth of July
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Rosie--
I did have my annual showing of "1776" -- while showing it to a
retired teacher I was visiting who had never seen it before. She was
enthralled.
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Seen on the door to a light-wave lab: 'Do not look into laser with
remaining good eye.'"
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23812
From: Charles Graft
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:23:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Truman Lake
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Ed Johnson wrote:
> Charlie:
> Any idea where I can find the author of this quote:
> "A free man cannot feel completely free, if there exists but one man
> enslaved; and no slave need feel completely enslaved, if there
> exists but one fee man."
> I don't think that it's Thos Jefferson or RAH; but darned if I can
> come up with who it might be. Sounds like a dyed-in-the-wool
> Libertarian to me, I just not sure which.
>
> Ed J
Ed--
Sorry; it doesn't ring a bell. It sounds more like a philosophical
challenge than the practical orientation of our founders.
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Seen on the door to a light-wave lab: 'Do not look into laser with remaining
good eye.'"
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23813
From: JT
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 21:04:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Identification
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:48:04 -0500, Charles Graft <chasgraft@aol.com>
wrote:
> Our society is in deep trouble.
>
> Comment?
http://www.badnarik.org/ . I donated some money earlier today. He
may not be perfect, but at least I can vote with a clear conscience.
I am going to Columbus next week for a convention. I decided to drive
instead of fly, partly because of little things like wanted to keep my
pocketknife with me. The layovers didn't help any either. ;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23814
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 00:45:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Fourth of July
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Charles Graft" <chasgraft@aol.com> wrote
>
> I did have my annual showing of "1776" -- while showing it to a
> retired teacher I was visiting who had never seen it before. She was
> enthralled.
I took my DVD in to work on the 5th, had a workplace showing of the
complete, restored version!
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23815
From: JT
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 21:16:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Fourth of July
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 00:45:30 -0400, "William J. Keaton"
<wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>I took my DVD in to work on the 5th, had a workplace showing of the
>complete, restored version!
>
>WJaKe
>
The federal government "at work", huh? I know, it was shown entirely
at break times. ;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23816
From: Lorrita Morgan"
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 15:38:59 -0700
Subject: A Twisted Trail
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I got my copy of "This is True" for this week. The Bonzer web site was all
about Dihydrogen Monoxide:
http://www.dhmo.org/ which led me to these sites
http://www.circus.com/~nodhmo/ and http://www.armory.com/~crisper/DHMO/
and finally to
http://www.armory.com/~crisper/Scorch/index.html
Some people have too much time on their hands.
--
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
`rita
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23817
From: Lorrita Morgan"
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 16:12:10 -0700
Subject: another fun product
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
http://www.kleinbottle.com/index.htm
--
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
`rita
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23818
From: JT
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 19:31:08 -0400
Subject: Re: A Twisted Trail
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 15:38:59 -0700, "Lorrita Morgan"
<lorrita_m@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I got my copy of "This is True" for this week. The Bonzer web site was all
>about Dihydrogen Monoxide:
>http://www.dhmo.org/ which led me to these sites
>http://www.circus.com/~nodhmo/ and http://www.armory.com/~crisper/DHMO/
>and finally to
>http://www.armory.com/~crisper/Scorch/index.html
>Some people have too much time on their hands.
Water they really talking about? ;)
JT
The Scorched Earth Party was good for a chortle.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23819
From: Lorrita Morgan"
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:00:17 -0700
Subject: Re: A Twisted Trail
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Definitely check out the DHMO press kit.
--
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
`rita
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"JT" <JT@REM0VEsff.net> wrote in message
news:8kdjf0dmbajeo2sssvjqvqonhvlem9i7l7@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 15:38:59 -0700, "Lorrita Morgan"
> <lorrita_m@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I got my copy of "This is True" for this week. The Bonzer web site was
all
> >about Dihydrogen Monoxide:
> >http://www.dhmo.org/ which led me to these sites
> >http://www.circus.com/~nodhmo/ and http://www.armory.com/~crisper/DHMO/
> >and finally to
> >http://www.armory.com/~crisper/Scorch/index.html
> >Some people have too much time on their hands.
>
> Water they really talking about? ;)
>
> JT
>
> The Scorched Earth Party was good for a chortle.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23820
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 22:21:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Truman Lake
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I heard it a long time ago, I am clueless now to recall it's
origins.
Ed
On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:23:20 -0500, Charles Graft
<chasgraft@aol.com> wrote:
>Ed Johnson wrote:
>
>> Charlie:
>> Any idea where I can find the author of this quote:
>> "A free man cannot feel completely free, if there exists but one man
>> enslaved; and no slave need feel completely enslaved, if there
>> exists but one fee man."
>> I don't think that it's Thos Jefferson or RAH; but darned if I can
>> come up with who it might be. Sounds like a dyed-in-the-wool
>> Libertarian to me, I just not sure which.
>>
>> Ed J
>
>Ed--
> Sorry; it doesn't ring a bell. It sounds more like a philosophical
>challenge than the practical orientation of our founders.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23821
From: JT
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:36:22 -0400
Subject: Re: A Twisted Trail
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:00:17 -0700, "Lorrita Morgan"
<lorrita_m@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Definitely check out the DHMO press kit.
Even better. I didn't go that far in my first time at the site.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23822
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 19 Jul 2004 01:36:44 GMT
Subject: New stuff at hs.org
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Heinlein's Juveniles: Still Contemporary After All These Years" --a reprint
from the Children's Literature Association Quarterly by C. W. Sullivan III
The Readers Group logs for "Heinlein and Private Space Travel".
. . .and don't forget to sign up for the Heinlein Award Dinner while you're
in the neighborhood!
Geo Rule
The Heinlein Society
www.heinleinsociety.org
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23823
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:15:37 -0400
Subject: On this day....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
in 1969, we had two men on the Moon, and another in orbit around it.
Now the most exciting space news is who can get to SUB-orbital space soon.
Sigh....
WJaKe
Am reading Michael Flynn's Firestar. Our heroine has just uttered the
cliche' "If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we...put a man on the
moon?" I'll have to see how she does it.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23824
From: ariel@sff.net (Catherine Hampton)
Date: 20 Jul 2004 21:23:35 GMT
Subject: Re: On this day....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
That's right. It was 35 years ago today that man first set foot on the
moon. My mother kept me up past my bedtime so I could see it. (And my
three younger siblings, although they were too young to remember.)
Who else remembers? :)
--
Ariel, aka Catherine Hampton <ariel@devsite.org>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23825
From: Deb@sff.net (D.A. Houdek)
Date: 21 Jul 2004 02:13:33 GMT
Subject: Re: On this day....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Yes--exciting space history and it just made me depressed. Over 30 years
since man last set foot on the moon.
"Firestar" is good, is it not? Glad the Heinlein Award clued me in to Michael
Flynn's books.
Deb
http://www.dahoudek.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23826
From: Lorrita Morgan"
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 22:37:24 -0700
Subject: Re: On this day....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I haven't read Flynn's books only a few stories. I love the ones in the
pub.
That July we were at my paternal grandmother's reroofing her house. The
living room was very crowded and one 20" B&W set wasn't big enough.
--
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
`rita
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"D.A. Houdek" <Deb@sff.net> wrote in message news:40fdd14d.0@news.sff.net...
> Yes--exciting space history and it just made me depressed. Over 30 years
> since man last set foot on the moon.
>
> "Firestar" is good, is it not? Glad the Heinlein Award clued me in to
Michael
> Flynn's books.
>
> Deb
> http://www.dahoudek.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23827
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 02:43:55 -0400
Subject: Re: On this day....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"D.A. Houdek" <Deb@sff.net> wrote in message news:40fdd14d.0@news.sff.net...
> Yes--exciting space history and it just made me depressed. Over 30 years
> since man last set foot on the moon.
>
> "Firestar" is good, is it not? Glad the Heinlein Award clued me in to
Michael
> Flynn's books.
>
Yep. that's how I found out about him. Glad I did, Firestar has been on my
shelf for a year or more, and I finally grabbed it this past weekend. Just
finished readong Coyote by Allan Steele, the first half or more is
excellent. last half or so, so-so
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23828
From: Charles Graft
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:06:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Identification
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT--
I spent most of my last airline flight wishing I still owned an
airplane. But for the price of one, I could have another rental house
making me money. . .
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Seen on the door to a light-wave lab: 'Do not look into laser with
remaining good eye.'"
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23829
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:06:16 -0400
Subject: Re: On this day....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On small step.
One giant leap that hasn't been repeated in 30 years. A national
failure of nerve, failure of will.
It was JovBill (IIRC) who said a while ago that we could go to
the moon cheaper and easier now than before. We have learned a lot.
Now 'we' ('they', not the Heinlein forum) need a reason to reach
out for the stars once again.
Ad Astra
Ed J
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:15:37 -0400, "William J. Keaton"
<wjake@prodigy.net> wrote:
>in 1969, we had two men on the Moon, and another in orbit around it.
>
>Now the most exciting space news is who can get to SUB-orbital space soon.
>
>
>Sigh....
>
>WJaKe
>
>Am reading Michael Flynn's Firestar. Our heroine has just uttered the
>cliche' "If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we...put a man on the
>moon?" I'll have to see how she does it.
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 23830
From: Robert Slater"
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:05:57 -0700
Subject: Grokster
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Hey Folks,
Check this out: http://www.grokster.com/contentproviders.html
Bunch of stuff on this site that interests me. Cool name, too.
SIFI Rob (Surfacing for a breath. Resubmerging)
------------------------------------------------------------
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