SFF Net Newsgroup Archive
sff.discuss.heinlein-forum 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 2003
http://www.sff.net/
Archive of: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Archive desc: The Internet home for the Heinlein Forum
Archived by: webnews@sff.net
Archive date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 01:18:28
============================================================
Article 21282
From: les@vrolyk.org (Les)
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 01:19:44 GMT
Subject: Re: The Current Heinlein Story Assignments
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Geo,
Could I take a stab at Tunnel in the Sky? Has anybody picked it
already?
Les
On Fri, 21 Jun 2002 23:14:08 -0700, Geo Rule <georule@citlink.net>
wrote:
>
>Geo-- Jerry is/was a Man
>Deb-- Revolt in 2100
>Bytor-- Waldo
>Doc --Starship Troopers
>Bill Dennis- Moon is a Harsh Mistress
>David Silver --I Will Fear No Evil
>'rita --"--We Also Walk Dogs"
>Dee -- She won't tell me.
>JT --Still pondering apparently.
>Eli --Magic, Inc
>
>
> This leaves tons of good stuff, and much of it doesn't even
>require a major investment of time. Lots of juicy short stories like
>They, All You Zombies, Man Who Travelled in Elephants, Jonathan Hoag.
>Not to mention great books like Citizen of the Galaxy, Glory Road,
>etc. Step right up. . .
>
>
>Geo Rule
>
>www.civilwarstlouis.com
>****
>Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
>the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison,
>Jesse James & Friends, Copperheads,
>the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21283
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 22:02:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews--"Searchlight
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Dee:
Works for me. Well done.
Ed J
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:46:32 -0500, "Dee"
<ke4lfgDELETETHIS@amsat.org> wrote:
> As Geo said in another post, I have tentatively completed my review of
>"Searchlight." A very short review of a very short story.
> Why do I say tentavely finished? Because I am posting it here for
>comment by the rest of you. I would rather this group of Heinlien readers
>catch my errors than have them appear on Deb's page, possibly to confuse
>newbies. I welcome all suggeastions, which I may or may not follow. :-)
>So here goes:
>
>=========================================================
>
> "Searchlight" © 1962
> Collected in The Past Through Tomorrow
>
> Five year old Betsy is a musical prodigy; she is also blind. When the
>rocket in which she is traveling crashes, the pilot is rendered unconscious.
>Little Betsy is lost and alone on the surface of the Moon, and unless
>rescuers can find the ship quickly, she will surely die.
>
> In this short-short story (only 4 pages) Heinlein demonstrates the
>limitations of radar, explains radio direction-finding with a loop antenna,
>and comes up with an ingenious solution to the problem of finding little
>Betsy.
>
> While this story is less engaging on an emotional level than many,
>largely because of the brevity of the form, it is in some ways a perfect
>miniature of much of Mr. Heinlein's work: a character of unusual ability, a
>foolish know-nothing telling the experts how to do the job, resolution
>through technology used wisely and creatively.
>
>--Submitted by Deanna S. Higginbotham
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21284
From: Geo Rule
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 19:32:50 -0700
Subject: Re: The Current Heinlein Story Assignments
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
You have TITS.
(Bad Geo, bad, baad Geo)
On Tue, 25 Jun 2002 01:19:44 GMT, les@vrolyk.org (Les) wrote:
>Geo,
>
> Could I take a stab at Tunnel in the Sky? Has anybody picked it
>already?
>
>Les
>
>
>On Fri, 21 Jun 2002 23:14:08 -0700, Geo Rule <georule@citlink.net>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Geo-- Jerry is/was a Man
>>Deb-- Revolt in 2100
>>Bytor-- Waldo
>>Doc --Starship Troopers
>>Bill Dennis- Moon is a Harsh Mistress
>>David Silver --I Will Fear No Evil
>>'rita --"--We Also Walk Dogs"
>>Dee -- She won't tell me.
>>JT --Still pondering apparently.
>>Eli --Magic, Inc
>>
>>
>> This leaves tons of good stuff, and much of it doesn't even
>>require a major investment of time. Lots of juicy short stories like
>>They, All You Zombies, Man Who Travelled in Elephants, Jonathan Hoag.
>>Not to mention great books like Citizen of the Galaxy, Glory Road,
>>etc. Step right up. . .
>>
>>
>>Geo Rule
>>
>>www.civilwarstlouis.com
>>****
>>Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
>>the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison,
>>Jesse James & Friends, Copperheads,
>>the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch.
Geo Rule
www.civilwarstlouis.com
****
Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison,
Jesse James & Friends, Copperheads,
the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21285
From: Geo Rule
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 19:38:04 -0700
Subject: Re: The Current Heinlein Story Assignments
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Sorry, Les. I'm a bit giddy from, after two years of arduous pursuit,
finally getting to read a 129 year old account of Jesse James in his
own voice giving his alibis for the robberies credited to him and
Frank prior to 1874. We will be the first to publish this account
since the original appearance in a St. Louis newspaper. About 10,000
words worth (not all Jesse James tho).
And thanks to Linda Coffin for making it possible!
Of course we'd be honored to have your review/synopsis of Tunnel in
the Sky. Thanks for helping out.
On Tue, 25 Jun 2002 01:19:44 GMT, les@vrolyk.org (Les) wrote:
>Geo,
>
> Could I take a stab at Tunnel in the Sky? Has anybody picked it
>already?
>
>Les
>
>
>On Fri, 21 Jun 2002 23:14:08 -0700, Geo Rule <georule@citlink.net>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Geo-- Jerry is/was a Man
>>Deb-- Revolt in 2100
>>Bytor-- Waldo
>>Doc --Starship Troopers
>>Bill Dennis- Moon is a Harsh Mistress
>>David Silver --I Will Fear No Evil
>>'rita --"--We Also Walk Dogs"
>>Dee -- She won't tell me.
>>JT --Still pondering apparently.
>>Eli --Magic, Inc
>>
>>
>> This leaves tons of good stuff, and much of it doesn't even
>>require a major investment of time. Lots of juicy short stories like
>>They, All You Zombies, Man Who Travelled in Elephants, Jonathan Hoag.
>>Not to mention great books like Citizen of the Galaxy, Glory Road,
>>etc. Step right up. . .
>>
>>
>>Geo Rule
>>
>>www.civilwarstlouis.com
>>****
>>Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
>>the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison,
>>Jesse James & Friends, Copperheads,
>>the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch.
Geo Rule
www.civilwarstlouis.com
****
Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison,
Jesse James & Friends, Copperheads,
the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21286
From: Geo Rule
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 19:45:12 -0700
Subject: Re: The Current Heinlein Story Assignments
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Errrp! I'm slandering poor Linda. 21,141 words worth.
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 19:38:04 -0700, Geo Rule
<georule@civilwarstlouis.com> wrote:
>
>Sorry, Les. I'm a bit giddy from, after two years of arduous pursuit,
>finally getting to read a 129 year old account of Jesse James in his
>own voice giving his alibis for the robberies credited to him and
>Frank prior to 1874. We will be the first to publish this account
>since the original appearance in a St. Louis newspaper. About 10,000
>words worth (not all Jesse James tho).
>
>And thanks to Linda Coffin for making it possible!
>
>Of course we'd be honored to have your review/synopsis of Tunnel in
>the Sky. Thanks for helping out.
>
Geo Rule
www.civilwarstlouis.com
****
Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison,
Jesse James & Friends, Copperheads,
the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21287
From: William Dennis"
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 22:50:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Diverting from RAH... LIW
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Deb Houdek Rule" <debrule@dahoudek.com> wrote in message
news:3d178392.6273236@NEWS.SFF.NET...
>
> Diverting for a moment from the Heinlein review project...
>
> Laura Ingalls Wilder fans...
>
> I've added a new Laura Ingalls Wilder page to that section of the
> site. It's called "Laura's Friends". I applied some of the genealogy
> and history research techniques I've been using for the Civil War
> stuff to Laura's books. First surprise was the Boasts who were almost,
> but not quite, as Laura described them.
>
> Then there's Mr. Edwards. I'd love to hear some feedback on my
> thoughts and conclusions in that area.
>
> http://www.dahoudek.com/LIW/index.html
Fine addition to your site, Deb.
--
Bill Dennis
http://billdennis.net
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21288
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:13:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Hi Everyone
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Hey Dee! Good to see you too.
I'm up for a computer lesson. Got anything in mind? Current areas of
specialty are embedded opperating systems and cellular technologies, but you
never really lose the other stuff.
bytor
"Dee" <ke4lfgDELETETHIS@amsat.org> wrote in message
news:3d11c86e.0@news.sff.net..
> again. _Please_ don't wait so long between visits, next time. You've
been
> missed. Along with general conversation, we haven't had a computer lesson
> in _forever_. <g>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21289
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:57:52 -0700
Subject: VHS, DVD, and the future
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
A few weeks ago Circuit City (one of the major appliance store chains on the
west coast) announced that it would start phasing out its VHS collection and
move toward selling only DVDs. The article mentioned a few stores that had
already cleared out the VHS titles completely.
"Consumers want DVD, and we want to meet that demand," said a Circuit City
spokesman. "Since shelf space is limited, it's coming at the expense of
VHS."
This triggered a vague memory about a discussion we had here about the
likelyhood of DVD replacing VHS within 10 years of then. Does anyone
remember that discussion? It's concievable that it was 10 years ago, since
I was on HF in 92, but I remember taking the position that DVD would
supercede VHS, and I wouldn't have had any basis for that opinion back then.
A much more likely timeframe would have been '96ish, since I was working on
DVD technologies around then.
Of course, my crystal ball was pretty murky. While replacing VHS for movie
watching was pretty clear, I did NOT forsee what would replace the "tape my
shows" function of VHS. I think I actually believed that recordable DVDs
would do it. I once bet a coworker a rice krispy square that we'd see
DVD-RAM drive prototypes within a year of DVD-ROM going mainstream. I'm
glad I didn't put an accelerator on that bet, or I'd be poor and he'd be
fat.... Hey, I was seriously naive back then when it came to publishing
industries. (We DID have the tech within a year, but tech is nothing when
the movie/music/book industry is involved.)
And my missing TiVo is just embarrasing. I mean around the time of the
discussion I'd spent 3 years desiging a system that stored movies on
standard PC hard drives and served them to people over fiber optics, only to
have the system collapse when the world decided NOT to wire itself with
fiber. If I'd ever bothered to polish that crystal ball, it would have been
obvious that the solution to this was to put the hard drives in people's
homes and deliver the content over the existing cable system.
So, who wants to predict what entertainment will be like 10 years from now?
Be careful when you speculate on computational power. In all likelyhood,
you'll significantly underestimate it. In complete seriousness, if you were
to compare my current PHONE to the computer I was using back in 92 to chat
with the HF, the phone would win on all fronts but data input. It's got a
better screen, a considerably faster processor, more ram, more storage
space, and a faster connection to the net (and it fits in my pocket :-).
And be sure to learn from my naivete. Any technology that requires the
backing of the book, music, and/or movie industry to get off the ground
probably won't have gone anywhere in the next 10 years. You'll do much
better if you focus on techs that ignore those industries or go behind their
backs (ie "but you can't regulate harddrives!" TiVo and "do your worst,
we've got green markers" mp3s).
bytor
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21290
From: Geo Rule
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:44:56 -0700
Subject: Re: VHS, DVD, and the future
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Hardcore porn starring Marilyn Monroe, John Wayne, and Cardinal
Richilieu. In the same movie. In the same scene. The viewer gets to
pick who's doing and who's watching --in any combination.
Actors won't have to do the movie anymore, just rent their
avatars. A "hot" actor can do 20 movies per year. Biiig piracy
business doing same without paying the actor.
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:57:52 -0700, "Michael P. Calligaro"
<bytor@mystikeep.com> wrote:
>
>
>So, who wants to predict what entertainment will be like 10 years from now?
>Be careful when you speculate on computational power. In all likelyhood,
>you'll significantly underestimate it. In complete seriousness, if you were
>to compare my current PHONE to the computer I was using back in 92 to chat
>with the HF, the phone would win on all fronts but data input. It's got a
>better screen, a considerably faster processor, more ram, more storage
>space, and a faster connection to the net (and it fits in my pocket :-).
>
>And be sure to learn from my naivete. Any technology that requires the
>backing of the book, music, and/or movie industry to get off the ground
>probably won't have gone anywhere in the next 10 years. You'll do much
>better if you focus on techs that ignore those industries or go behind their
>backs (ie "but you can't regulate harddrives!" TiVo and "do your worst,
>we've got green markers" mp3s).
>
>bytor
>
Geo Rule
www.civilwarstlouis.com
****
Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison,
Jesse James & Friends, Copperheads,
the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21291
From: Dee"
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 03:33:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews--"Searchlight
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Ed--
Thanks for the encouragement.
I really am interested in hearing from anyone who sees something I
missed. I will wait a few more days, then send to Deb as final copy. Also,
do you or anyone else haev suggestions of similar stories for the "If you
liked this" link?
--Dee
"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
news:3pjfhugtood1sc9p5cfp6ai139r5v0vpe2@4ax.com...
> Dee:
> Works for me. Well done.
>
> Ed J
>
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:46:32 -0500, "Dee"
> <ke4lfgDELETETHIS@amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > As Geo said in another post, I have tentatively completed my review
of
> >"Searchlight." A very short review of a very short story.
> > Why do I say tentavely finished? Because I am posting it here for
> >comment by the rest of you. I would rather this group of Heinlien
readers
> >catch my errors than have them appear on Deb's page, possibly to confuse
> >newbies. I welcome all suggeastions, which I may or may not follow. :-)
> >So here goes:
> >
> >=========================================================
> >
> > "Searchlight" © 1962
> > Collected in The Past Through Tomorrow
> >
> > Five year old Betsy is a musical prodigy; she is also blind. When
the
> >rocket in which she is traveling crashes, the pilot is rendered
unconscious.
> >Little Betsy is lost and alone on the surface of the Moon, and unless
> >rescuers can find the ship quickly, she will surely die.
> >
> > In this short-short story (only 4 pages) Heinlein demonstrates the
> >limitations of radar, explains radio direction-finding with a loop
antenna,
> >and comes up with an ingenious solution to the problem of finding little
> >Betsy.
> >
> > While this story is less engaging on an emotional level than many,
> >largely because of the brevity of the form, it is in some ways a perfect
> >miniature of much of Mr. Heinlein's work: a character of unusual ability,
a
> >foolish know-nothing telling the experts how to do the job, resolution
> >through technology used wisely and creatively.
> >
> >--Submitted by Deanna S. Higginbotham
> >
> >
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21292
From: Dee"
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 03:34:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews--"Searchlight
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Oops. Sorry for the failure to snip.
--Dee
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21293
From: Dee"
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 04:17:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Hi Everyone
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
bytor wrote:
> I'm up for a computer lesson. Got anything in mind? Current areas of
> specialty are embedded opperating systems and cellular technologies, but
you
> never really lose the other stuff.
Okay, here's something that has happened to me several times. I don't know
what sauses it, and I don't know what makes it (eventually) go away.
Normally, when I click on the icon for my internet service, or for
Outlook Express, my home page or my mail and news page come up
automatically, and my ISP is dialed up. Every so often, it just "forgets"
to do a dialup, and I get "not found" messages. I have to back up, clik on
the connection icon, then after it dials up, open the page. This condition
will continue, anywhere from days to months, then go into spontaneous
remission, for all that I can tell.
Second problem--Although I havr the "remember this password" checked for
my basic sign on and for my mail sign on, I have to put my password in
manuall every time to read my mail.
So, bytor, in addition to tellling me what to do, maybe you will do a
bytor-lesson on what's going on here. Computer class is now in session.
--Dee
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21294
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 06:27:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews--"Searchlight
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I like it, Dee. I think the struggle with these is going to be keeping
the review shorter than the work, and still do it justice. That's why I
picked novellas! [g]
--
Eli V. Hestermann
ehestermann@tmlp.com
"Vita brevis est, ars longa" - Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21295
From: Voxwoman
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 08:06:21 -0400
Subject: Re: VHS, DVD, and the future
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I read that story, lol! (now if I can only remember who wrote it...)
Geo Rule wrote:
> Hardcore porn starring Marilyn Monroe, John Wayne, and Cardinal
> Richilieu. In the same movie. In the same scene. The viewer gets to
> pick who's doing and who's watching --in any combination.
>
> Actors won't have to do the movie anymore, just rent their
> avatars. A "hot" actor can do 20 movies per year. Biiig piracy
> business doing same without paying the actor.
>
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:57:52 -0700, "Michael P. Calligaro"
> <bytor@mystikeep.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>So, who wants to predict what entertainment will be like 10 years from now?
>>Be careful when you speculate on computational power. In all likelyhood,
>>you'll significantly underestimate it. In complete seriousness, if you were
>>to compare my current PHONE to the computer I was using back in 92 to chat
>>with the HF, the phone would win on all fronts but data input. It's got a
>>better screen, a considerably faster processor, more ram, more storage
>>space, and a faster connection to the net (and it fits in my pocket :-).
>>
>>And be sure to learn from my naivete. Any technology that requires the
>>backing of the book, music, and/or movie industry to get off the ground
>>probably won't have gone anywhere in the next 10 years. You'll do much
>>better if you focus on techs that ignore those industries or go behind their
>>backs (ie "but you can't regulate harddrives!" TiVo and "do your worst,
>>we've got green markers" mp3s).
>>
>>bytor
>>
>>
>
>
> Geo Rule
>
> www.civilwarstlouis.com
> ****
> Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
> the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison,
> Jesse James & Friends, Copperheads,
> the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch.
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21296
From: Charles Graft"
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 05:51:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Hello again
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Bill--
Glad to have you back. I haven't had reason to discorse on railroading
for some time now. I (and all of WVRR's other engineers) are now FRA
(Federal Railroad Agency) certified and thus widely employable.
I will be back in Indy with my new wife very shortly now. We took an
Alaskan cruise for our honeymoon.
Big Charlie
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21297
From: Charles Graft"
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 06:07:01 -0700
Subject: Re: Hello again
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
David--
I started saving all of the HF about 1993 and could throw it on a CD to
send you (or anyone else) if you are interested. It's massive and not at
all organized, though.
Charlie
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21298
From: Charles Graft"
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 06:22:26 -0700
Subject: Re: Hello again
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
WJaKe--
Now come on. Don't you count Les, John Paul or Beatrice?
"William J. Keaton" <wjake@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3d11e163.0@news.sff.net...
> Well, I am DC area, but have not been active in local fandom. And I
arrived
> here (DC and the HF) almost 10 years ago. I'm the only DC local, unless
> MadgeEdith pops up, of the long-lost John Loomis.
>
> WJaKe
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21299
From: David Silver
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 07:29:10 -0700
Subject: Re: Hello again
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Charles Graft wrote:
> David--
>
> I started saving all of the HF about 1993 and could throw it on a CD to
> send you (or anyone else) if you are interested. It's massive and not at
> all organized, though.
Charlie,
I'd be honored to carry that CD up to UC Santa Cruz when we visit there
this ConJose.
David
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21300
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 12:17:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Hi Everyone
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <3d17edcd.0@news.sff.net>, Michael P. Calligaro writes...
> Current areas of
> specialty are embedded opperating systems and cellular technologies, but you
> never really lose the other stuff.
Well, bytor, that's the difference between you and me. ;-)
Cellular is fine, but with Wolfram's book out, perhaps it should be
"cellular automata". ;-)
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21301
From: georule@civilwarstlouis.com
Date: 25 Jun 2002 17:22:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Hello again
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Oh, Great Ghu! Thinking about "Heinlein the Pedophile" "Kill the Apes!"
and "Heinlein the One-Worlder" threads preserved forever at the Heinlein
archives. Ooooooh.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21302
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:25:13 GMT
Subject: Re: Hello again
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Tue, 25 Jun 2002 06:07:01 -0700, "Charles Graft"
<chasgraft@aol.com> wrote:
>David--
>
> I started saving all of the HF about 1993 and could throw it on a CD to
>send you (or anyone else) if you are interested. It's massive and not at
>all organized, though.
>
>Charlie
>
I'd definitely take a copy of that, BC. I've got everything from SFF
Net on, but there's still 4 years before that. ;)
The SFF Net stuff is currently set as simple webpages with
preformatted text on them. (The way the SFF Net 'bots currently
archive). They used to just be text files and that's what's available
on the HF webpage. I haven't figured out if I want to just copy the
rest out to pages for the HF site or what.
Anyway, just name your price for time involved plus the materials and
I'll send out a check!
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21303
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:25:13 GMT
Subject: Re: VHS, DVD, and the future
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:57:52 -0700, "Michael P. Calligaro"
<bytor@mystikeep.com> wrote:
>And my missing TiVo is just embarrasing. I mean around the time of the
>discussion I'd spent 3 years desiging a system that stored movies on
>standard PC hard drives and served them to people over fiber optics, only to
>have the system collapse when the world decided NOT to wire itself with
>fiber. If I'd ever bothered to polish that crystal ball, it would have been
>obvious that the solution to this was to put the hard drives in people's
>homes and deliver the content over the existing cable system.
>
Good to have you back posting, bytor. Don't be too embarrassed about
missing technological applications at first glance. Your boss has
been quite bad with it, too, and he still manages to come out ahead.
<G>
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21304
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 21:07:49 -0700
Subject: Re: VHS, DVD, and the future
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
That's probably happening now. What's it going to be like in ten years?
Anyone see Final Fantasy? You kind of had to like anime to like the actual
movie, but the graphics were close enough that it's hard to imagine not
having animated films that are completely indistinguisable from "real" films
within a year or two. Okay, it takes a year or two to make a movie, so
maybe we won't see them for 3 or 4 years, but no one will be surprised when
it happens.
From interviews I've seen with actors who do voice parts in animated films,
they LOVE that kind of work. There's an interesting reverse "Singing in the
Rain" effect that's sure to follow, though, that I don't think they see.
Before talkies, you just had to look good. After talkies, you had to both
look good AND sound good. In the future, you'll only have to sound good.
What's Cameron Diaz going to think when her blond hair means nothing and
she's replaced by some three hundred pound woman with a great set of pipes?
bytor
"Geo Rule" <georule@civilwarstlouis.com> wrote in message
news:e34ghuo0oetkndt5a8iccg1fan6ejmv7ps@4ax.com...
>
> Hardcore porn starring Marilyn Monroe, John Wayne, and Cardinal
> Richilieu. In the same movie. In the same scene. The viewer gets to
> pick who's doing and who's watching --in any combination.
>
> Actors won't have to do the movie anymore, just rent their
> avatars. A "hot" actor can do 20 movies per year. Biiig piracy
> business doing same without paying the actor.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21305
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 21:13:19 -0700
Subject: Re: VHS, DVD, and the future
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Okay, you want embarrasing. At the time, my manager and I came up with what
we thought was a brilliant idea involving DVDs, and we almost patented it.
We decided against the patent partially because we saw that our work in DVDs
was limited (anyone remember an MS DVD player? Don't wrack your brain too
hard :-) and partially out of laziness. But we DID actually think it was a
good idea.
Our brilliant idea was that we'd make DVDs that could only be watched 3 or 4
times. You could rent movies and not have to return them! <sighs> I wish
we HAD patented it. We'd have saved the world from the inanity that was
DIVX.
bytor
"JT" <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in message
news:3d18ed63.37586578@news.sff.net...
> Good to have you back posting, bytor. Don't be too embarrassed about
> missing technological applications at first glance. Your boss has
> been quite bad with it, too, and he still manages to come out ahead.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21306
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 21:49:33 -0700
Subject: Re: Hi Everyone
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Which OS, Dee? I'm afraid I won't be much help here, because I suspect it's
not XP, and I've never really used any of the Dos variants (I pretty much
went straight from the Mac to NT). Worse, when I was on a modem, I NEVER
used the autodial functionality. I really hated it deciding to dial when it
thought it was important to do so. I felt that when I wanted to get online,
I'd tell it, and when I wanted to get off, I'd tell it again. So I always
dialed manually. It's kind of the reason a manual transmission is better
than an automatic (unless you've got my car, since no human could shift my
card, but my car is the highest tech production vehicle on the planet...).
The automatic can pay better attention to the tach, etc, and shift more
precisely than a manual can, but the automatic can't tell that you're JUST
about to crest this hill and might downshift when it's going to need to
upshift an half a second (even my car can't figure that out, but he doesn't
shift, so it doesn't much matter :-).
That's how I felt about the autodialer. Yeah, I'm getting mail now, but it
can't tell that I'm going to open the web browser in a second, so it
disconnects as soon as it finishes getting the mail. Now I'm got to go
through the whole "dial and hope for a good connection" bit again.
Not that any of that helps you. If you bring up the properties on the
manual dialer (varies from OS to OS, but usually right click and select
properties) it should give you a box with a dizzying array of options to
peek and poke, along with multiple tabs full of more optoins. If my memory
serves me correctly, somewhere in that maze is a checkbox that says
something amounting to "Automatically dial this connection when something
wants to connect to the internet." If, when you're having trouble, you go
find that box and it's not selected, there's your problem. Select it. If
it IS selected. Try unselecting it and clicking whatever variety of "Okay,
just do it already" boxes you need too. Then open it again and notice that
it's not selected. Now select it and it should be fine. If that doesn't
work. Try unselecting it. Restarting the machine, and then reselecting it.
Note that, since I've never used the DOS variants, this might be a complete
wild goose chase. Don't hold me to it.
If you're on XP, you can skip the maze above and follow the following
directions (as told to me by my cat (no, not the useless freeloaders who
didn't even catch the mouse that scared Julie so much, the cute little
yellowish/orange one that they're trying to get rid of, but I still like,
despite the fact that MS Bob made a company I'd invested in go down the
tubes...))
Go to Network Connections (you can get there a myrid of ways, but the best
is to go to help and support and type in "autodial"). From there click on
the "Advanced" dropdown. Then choose "Dialing properties." Then you can
play the whole, "tell it that you don't want it to dial so that you can tell
it that you do want it to dial" game from there.
As for WHY this is happening. That's easy. Gremlins.
bytor
"Dee" <ke4lfgDELETETHIS@amsat.org> wrote in message
news:3d183525.0@news.sff.net...
>
> bytor wrote:
> > I'm up for a computer lesson. Got anything in mind? Current areas of
> > specialty are embedded opperating systems and cellular technologies, but
> you
> > never really lose the other stuff.
>
> Okay, here's something that has happened to me several times. I don't
know
> what sauses it, and I don't know what makes it (eventually) go away.
>
> Normally, when I click on the icon for my internet service, or for
> Outlook Express, my home page or my mail and news page come up
> automatically, and my ISP is dialed up. Every so often, it just "forgets"
> to do a dialup, and I get "not found" messages. I have to back up, clik
on
> the connection icon, then after it dials up, open the page. This
condition
> will continue, anywhere from days to months, then go into spontaneous
> remission, for all that I can tell.
>
> Second problem--Although I havr the "remember this password" checked
for
> my basic sign on and for my mail sign on, I have to put my password in
> manuall every time to read my mail.
>
> So, bytor, in addition to tellling me what to do, maybe you will do a
> bytor-lesson on what's going on here. Computer class is now in session.
>
> --Dee
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21307
From: Geo Rule
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:27:59 -0700
Subject: Re: VHS, DVD, and the future
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Y'know, I *still* don't know why that didn't work. Can you explain
it to me? I've heard various people have a lot of hostility to the
idea, but I thot it made a lot of sense.
The important point was that it wasn't meant to replace *buying* a
DVD that you wanted to keep forever. It was meant to replace
*renting* a DVD that you would have to return. No more late fees! No
more runs to the rental store at 11:59pm (or whatever time the rental
place of your choice used as a deadine) to beat the deadline! I thot
it was brilliant. Too soon maybe, since they tried it before DVD
really hit critical mass, which really has just happened in the last
year.
Of course we never had to deal with it in the real world, which
might be why I don't understand the hostility. DIVX was dead before
we bought our DVD player.
On Tue, 25 Jun 2002 21:13:19 -0700, "Michael P. Calligaro"
<bytor@mystikeep.com> wrote:
>Okay, you want embarrasing. At the time, my manager and I came up with what
>we thought was a brilliant idea involving DVDs, and we almost patented it.
>We decided against the patent partially because we saw that our work in DVDs
>was limited (anyone remember an MS DVD player? Don't wrack your brain too
>hard :-) and partially out of laziness. But we DID actually think it was a
>good idea.
>
>Our brilliant idea was that we'd make DVDs that could only be watched 3 or 4
>times. You could rent movies and not have to return them! <sighs> I wish
>we HAD patented it. We'd have saved the world from the inanity that was
>DIVX.
>
>bytor
Geo Rule
www.civilwarstlouis.com
****
Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison,
Jesse James & Friends, Copperheads,
the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21308
From: David Wright"
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 15:04:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Ok. here are my attempts. Please feel free to suggest corrections or
improvements. I might even pay attention to them. :)
P.S. I saw somewhere an address to submit these to, but I can't find it now.
Help would be appreciated. Please note that I ended both reviews with
similar, but not identical paragraphs to show some of the contrast between
the two.
I wrote these using Micro$oft Word in .rtf format and cut and pasted, but I
don't know how they will appear on the newsgroup, so please accept my
apologies if things look funny.
David Wright
============================================================================
=======
By His Bootstraps © 1941
collected in The Menace From Earth
In the far future, a very advanced alien race comes to Earth, rules for
thousands of years and then for unknown reasons disappears leaving behind an
artifact which provides a means to travel in time.
Bob Wilson, a Ph.D. candidate struggling in a last-minute effort to complete
his dissertation before the deadline for submission has locked himself in
his room working at the typewriter when a stranger joins him. The stranger
promises Bob a great future if he will return with the stranger through the
"gate" by which he had arrived. Bob, confused by all of this starts drinking
and before long is quite drunk. He has made up his mind to do as the
stranger asks when a second stranger appears through the gate and tries to
prevent this from happening. As they are arguing, Bob receives what appears
to be a crank call. Afterwards, a scuffle ensues and Bob is knocked through
the gate.
When he regains consciousness, a middle-aged man named Diktor greets him,
leads him to a room, treats his wounds and gives him a drink that puts him
to sleep. Awaking after a day and a half, he meets with the man again who
explains that they are 30,000 years in the future. Bob recognizes that the
Diktor is also a visitor from the 20th century. He asks Bob to return to his
room through the gate, pick up some items and persuade the person he finds
there to return with him and they would all enjoy a great future together.
Bob goes through the gate and is immediately shocked when he realizes that
he is the "stranger" who has returned to see himself working there on his
thesis. He tries to do things differently than that which he remembers from
his earlier experience, but is unable to say or do anything different. He
has about convinced his "earlier" self to go through the gate when the scene
repeats itself with the advent of the second stranger. He experiences more
shock when he realizes that this stranger is another copy of himself.
After the earlier Bob has been knocked through the gate, he argues with his
later self and then goes back through the gate where he confronts Diktor.
Bob argues with him and decides to get off of the merry go round by going
back through the gate to his own time.
This time he realizes that he has become the second stranger. The scene
repeats with well-worn familiarity and he is left alone after the first Bob
is knocked through the gate and the second Bob has left also.
At this point, he considers that he is finished with this nonsense, but, the
gate is still there and the prospect of living a dull academic life pales in
comparison with the potentials he saw in the future. He decides to take
matters into his own hands and goes through the gate once more. He finds the
list of items that he was supposed to retrieve, resets the controls and
returns to his own time although at an earlier hour. Having gotten all of
the items on the list, he makes a phone call to his own apartment to check
that all is going as he remembered it. Remember the "crank phone call"?
He returns to his room after all of the previous events have transpired and
goes through the gate again. This time he resets the controls to 10 years in
the past and returns there. His idea is to take over the place and preempt
the status of the older man before he can arrive.
10 Years pass and the man never shows up. One day when he is examining the
gate, he sets it to appear in his old room in his old time. Guess who
arrives unconscious after having been knocked through the gate and guess who
he now knows that he himself is?
The cycle of events from the later side of the gate play themselves out just
as he remembered them with all of the Bobs going and coming just as before
only now he is doing the part of the older man.
Having entered the set of cycles when he was writing his dissertation, he
now exits from the cycles after all of the Bobs have come and gone and acted
out their parts.
This story along with "All You Zombies" and "The Door Into Summer" are
examples of what are called "deterministic" or "unchangeable timeline"
stories. In other words, All of the events take place on time loops, but
there is no change in what happens each time through the loop. Events are
"fixed". One philosophical problem associated with this kind of story is
obvious. What happens to "free will"? In this story Heinlein attempts to
answer that question with a bit of hand-waving by talking about how events
are "free" from within the timeline, but "fixed" from a higher dimensional
viewpoint. He also invokes this idea of higher dimensions, apparently based
on J.W. Dunne's theories, and does try to use them to provide a "scientific"
basis for his time traveling.
Such "fixed events" are not the norm in most of his later works where he
gets into all sorts of variations, multiple timelines, the changing of
events through time travel and even the changing of events through direct
author interaction with the story as in the "erasing" of Marshall Sam Beaux
in "Cat"
A graphic showing the timeline for this story may be found at:
http://dwrighsr.tripod.com/heinlein/Bootstraps.gif
============================================================================
=======
All You Zombies Ó 1959
Collected in The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag
This short time travel story of Heinlein's appeared some 18 years later than
"By His
Bootstraps" with which it bears much in common. It is considered by many to
be the ultimate in time travel stories.
A young man who appears to be feeling very sorry for himself tells his life
history to a bartender. He started out life as a homely girl,(yes I said
girl), growing up in an orphanage and vowing never to have children out of
wedlock and abandon them as she apparently had been. In spite of her good
intentions when she grows up she succumbs to seduction by a young man waving
around $100 dollar bills and who promptly leaves her behind afterwards.
Unfortunately, she has become pregnant and in due course gives birth to a
baby girl. The baby is kidnapped and disappears forever or so she thinks. To
compound her problems, the doctors who delivered her baby finds out that she
has both sets of reproductive equipment, the female part of which has been
pretty well ruined by the pregnancy and so they remove these and turn her
into a man. The man becomes a writer of women's confession stories and some
years later finds himself in the bar where he tells his story.
The bartender is more than he appears to be. He is an agent of a time
traveling agency and is there to recruit this young man into the same
service. He baits him by offering to find for him the man who had been the
cause of his/her "ruination". He gives the man money, and takes him back in
time leaving him there to find his quarry. The bartender then goes ahead a
number of months and kidnaps that same month-old baby. He takes her back 19
or so years and leaves her on the doorstep of an orphanage. The baby, of
course, subsequently grows up to be the girl/man of the later story. The
bartender then returns to where he left the young man and finds him to pick
him up. The young man is in a state of shock basically since he now knows
that not only that he" was the man who had seduced himself when he was a
girl, but that the bartender is also a much later version of himself. The
bartender then takes him into the future where he is left to be recruited
into the organization. The bartender returns to his own base and reflects on
all of the events in his life.
As in a number of Heinlein's works, he toys with the idea of solipsism and
ends the story with the thoughts of the bartender in what I think is one of
the most poignant passages that he ever wrote:
"I know where I came from, but where did all you zombies come from?
"I felt a headache coming on, but a headache powder is one thing I don't
take. I did it once-- and you all went away.
"So I crawled into bed and whistled out the light.
"You aren't really there at all. There isn't anyone but me - Jane - here
alone in the dark.
I miss you terribly."
This story along with "Bootstraps" and "The Door Into Summer" are examples
of what are called "deterministic" or "unchangeable timeline" stories. In
other words, All of the events take place on time loops, but there is no
change in what happens each time through the loop. Events are "fixed". One
philosophical problem associated with this kind of story is obvious. What
happens to "free will"? Heinlein doesn't attempt to answer that question in
this story. I expect that he avoids it because it is unanswerable, and in
this story neither does he try to give any "scientific" basis for his time
traveling.
Such "fixed events" are not the norm in most of his later works, where he
gets into all sorts of variations, multiple timelines, the changing of
events through time travel and even the changing of events through direct
author interaction with the story as in the "erasing" of Marshall Sam Beaux
in "Cat"
A graphic showing the timeline for this story may be found at:
http://dwrighsr.tripod.com/heinlein/Zombies.gif
============================================================================
=======
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21309
From: David Wright"
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:14:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I should know better by now to not submit things before I've really gone
over them again and again.
I have decided to add the following to BHB right after the point where I
finish the narration and before describing the type of story.
David
-------------------------------
Bob Wilson is a very unlikable character to many people. He appears to be a
completely self-centered person and as a consequence is one of the few
Heinlein main characters who treat women in a less than gentlemanly fashion
and one who could easily have become an mediocre and alcoholic professor had
it not been for his subsequent fate. He has no qualms about bouncing checks
which he knows will never be covered. Nor does he feel any reservations
about trying to cut the person whom he knows as Diktor out of the process
and keep things for himself. When you get right down to it, Bob's really not
a very nice guy.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21310
From: noone"
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 17:27:13 -0400
Subject: another question from "no one
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
actually it's me, "gunner" again, does anyone here happen to know of a
newsgroup like this devoted to filk music, exchanging lyrics and music and
general gossip, either in sff.net or alt.binaries. info would be
appreciated, thanks.
"gunner"
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21311
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 23:30:50 GMT
Subject: Re: another question from "no one
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Wed, 26 Jun 2002 17:27:13 -0400, "noone" <no_one@home> wrote:
>actually it's me, "gunner" again, does anyone here happen to know of a
>newsgroup like this devoted to filk music, exchanging lyrics and music and
>general gossip, either in sff.net or alt.binaries. info would be
>appreciated, thanks.
>"gunner"
>
>
I came up with rec.music.filk when I searched groups.google.com. I
didn't look any further than that because that's exactly what you
want. ;)
You can't get it through the sff.net server, of course. You'd have to
use groups.google.com or configure a newsreader to use a newsfeed you
have rights to (like your ISP's).
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21312
From: Geo Rule
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:25:33 -0700
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
David--
Please send your .rtf files to debrule@dahoudek.com Thanks!
On Wed, 26 Jun 2002 15:04:28 -0400, "David Wright"
<dwrighsr@alltel.net> wrote:
>
>
>Ok. here are my attempts. Please feel free to suggest corrections or
>improvements. I might even pay attention to them. :)
>
>
Geo Rule
www.civilwarstlouis.com
****
Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison,
Jesse James & Friends, Copperheads,
the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21313
From: Voxwoman
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 22:03:04 -0400
Subject: Re: VHS, DVD, and the future
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I'm all for it. I've been developing my sexy contralto ever since I saw
the phrase in many of RAH's books (and I can't cite a single example
now, dammit!). I may have a film career yet! ;P
-Wendy of NJ
Michael P. Calligaro wrote:
> That's probably happening now. What's it going to be like in ten years?
>
> Anyone see Final Fantasy? You kind of had to like anime to like the actual
> movie, but the graphics were close enough that it's hard to imagine not
> having animated films that are completely indistinguisable from "real" films
> within a year or two. Okay, it takes a year or two to make a movie, so
> maybe we won't see them for 3 or 4 years, but no one will be surprised when
> it happens.
>
> From interviews I've seen with actors who do voice parts in animated films,
> they LOVE that kind of work. There's an interesting reverse "Singing in the
> Rain" effect that's sure to follow, though, that I don't think they see.
> Before talkies, you just had to look good. After talkies, you had to both
> look good AND sound good. In the future, you'll only have to sound good.
> What's Cameron Diaz going to think when her blond hair means nothing and
> she's replaced by some three hundred pound woman with a great set of pipes?
>
> bytor
>
>
> "Geo Rule" <georule@civilwarstlouis.com> wrote in message
> news:e34ghuo0oetkndt5a8iccg1fan6ejmv7ps@4ax.com...
>
>> Hardcore porn starring Marilyn Monroe, John Wayne, and Cardinal
>>Richilieu. In the same movie. In the same scene. The viewer gets to
>>pick who's doing and who's watching --in any combination.
>>
>> Actors won't have to do the movie anymore, just rent their
>>avatars. A "hot" actor can do 20 movies per year. Biiig piracy
>>business doing same without paying the actor.
>>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21314
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 02:08:49 GMT
Subject: RAHketteer Newsletters on the Web
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Thanks to 'rita, since she saved them all these years, and Tom
Warfield, who gave permission to post them, you all can go back and
enjoy the RAHketteer Newsletter. I admit I have only skimmed through
them, just to make sure they were text files and there were no weird
formatting issues.
Anyway, they are out on the HF's web site now for the world to
download.
http://www.sff.net/people/HF/ .
BTW, I downloaded all the HF's posts from the SFF Net archives since
the last time I did it a few years ago. The current output from the
first post in 1997 through the last post archived at the beginning of
May 2002 is around 8.6 megs zip-compressed.
Does anyone have a chunk of web space where they could create a
subdirectory and we could dump those out there? I'd like to just have
a zip file per year, but I'm open to other schemes. I'm on broadband,
so I can dump individual years plus one big shot if I can FTP there.
It's no big deal, but it'd cool, wouldn't it?
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21315
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 00:42:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Space Station 3D Imax
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Geo Rule" <georule@civilwarstlouis.com> wrote in message
>
> Hey, JaKe. . .which story are you going to review for the
> website, hmm?
>
As I am behind on reading the HF, I only have a vague idea of what you are
talking about. But when I get caught up, I'll let you all know!
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21316
From: Dee"
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 04:12:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
David--
They both look great to me. Maybe Deb will mark the reviews that are
mmoe complete synopses with some sort of spoiler warning. Depending on the
story, some just don't lend themsleves to serious discussion without a
spoiler. I think these two are in that category. Good job.
--Dee
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21317
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:38:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I want to echo what Dee said. I'm of the school that thinks good
writing will keep a reader even when they know the outcome, but there
are plenty out there who don't agree. My wife, for example, never
rereads books. Those folks almost certainly wouldn't want to read the
stories after complete synopses. I think that's particularly the case
with these stories, since there's an element of surprise ending in them.
--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21318
From: David Wright"
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:55:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Dee" <ke4lfgDELETETHIS@amsat.org> wrote in message
news:3d1ad6bd.0@news.sff.net...
> David--
>
> They both look great to me. Maybe Deb will mark the reviews that are
> mmoe complete synopses with some sort of spoiler warning. Depending on
the
> story, some just don't lend themsleves to serious discussion without a
> spoiler. I think these two are in that category. Good job.
>
> --Dee
>
>
Thanks Dee. I have spent some time cleaning them up and putting them into
HTML in case that it is the preferred format. I sent Deb a query on it last
night, but haven't heard back yet.
I have spent a great deal of time on time travel stories over the last few
months as I have been writing an article on it for Bill Patterson and The
Heinlein Journal. The first part will appear in the upcoming July issue.
Subscriptions to the Journal may be obtained from Bill Patterson
bpral22169@aol.com (unsolicited and unbiased Advertisement)
:) :) :)
This material I did here doesn't come from the article except for a couple
of references.
I agree about the spoiler content. I just didn't see much that I had to say
about them except for doing the synopsis the way I did. I, personally, don't
see much of a writer's, (especially Heinlein's), literary style and
techniques because I usually get wrapped up in the story and just go with
the flow.
If Deb does prefer the HTML version and wants to do as you suggest, I can
easily put in a 'Skip Spoiler Warning or Exit' links into them so the reader
doesn't have to a lot of scrolling to get to the meat or to get out easily.
David
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21319
From: David Wright"
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 09:41:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Eli Hestermann" <Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:3D1B0759.A077D18C@dfci.harvard.edu...
> I want to echo what Dee said. I'm of the school that thinks good
> writing will keep a reader even when they know the outcome, but there
> are plenty out there who don't agree. My wife, for example, never
> rereads books. Those folks almost certainly wouldn't want to read the
> stories after complete synopses. I think that's particularly the case
> with these stories, since there's an element of surprise ending in them.
>
I do know that there are such people, although I have a hard time relating
to them as I am of the 'read-em over and over again even though I know every
detail' school myself. Of course, part of that is because I really *don't*
know every detail. I almost invariably learn something new that I had never
spotted before even though as in Heinlein's case, I have probably read every
story at least two dozen times over the last 50 years. (Well, maybe only a
single dozen for my least favorites). :) The other part is, of course,
because I can enjoy a good story over and over again.
But I can certainly understand why a complete synopsis could spoil a
first-time reading. I have been thinking of adding a small very brief
section at the front for those people.
For AYZ, how about:
This tightly-written story is filled with surprises about the events
surrounding the recruitment of a young man into a time-traveling agency. The
final outcome will certainly give you food for thought!
The full synopsis below reveals the entire plot. [Click to Skip to
Synopis][Exit]
For BHB:
This early story of Robert Heinlein ranges over 30,000 years of history and
details the effects that time travel has on a young man of the 20th century.
It is filled with surprising twists and the outcome will be a further
surprise!
The full synopsis below reveals the entire plot. [Click to Skip to
Synopis][Exit]
Or something to that effect.
David
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21320
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 10:51:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
David Wright wrote:
> But I can certainly understand why a complete synopsis could spoil a
> first-time reading. I have been thinking of adding a small very brief
> section at the front for those people.
I like it. Then people can read your comments afterward, if they prefer.
--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21321
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 27 Jun 2002 18:30:04 GMT
Subject: Teleportation
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Hi, folks. I haven't been by in a while, and I don't have much time now,
but this ought to get your interest:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/06/17/australia.teleporting.reut/index.html
http://www.anu.edu.au/pad/media/specials/teleport.html
In a nutshell, using quantum entanglement, they can now reliably teleport
light. They expect the single atom to be doable in a few years.
Gotta go!
Filksinger
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21322
From: kevin mcgillicuddy"
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 20:02:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Teleportation
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message news:3d1b59ac.0@news.sff.net...
> Hi, folks. I haven't been by in a while, and I don't have much time now,
> but this ought to get your interest:
>
>
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/06/17/australia.teleporting.reut/index.
html
>
> http://www.anu.edu.au/pad/media/specials/teleport.html
>
> In a nutshell, using quantum entanglement, they can now reliably teleport
> light. They expect the single atom to be doable in a few years.
>
> Gotta go!
>
> Filksinger
I'm with Doc McCoy on this. The idea of it - Scattering my atoms all over
the galaxy!
McKevin
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21323
From: Geo Rule
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 20:16:54 -0700
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
David--
Thanks, these look good.
On Wed, 26 Jun 2002 15:04:28 -0400, "David Wright"
<dwrighsr@alltel.net> wrote:
>
>
>Ok. here are my attempts. Please feel free to suggest corrections or
>improvements. I might even pay attention to them. :)
>
>
>
>P.S. I saw somewhere an address to submit these to, but I can't find it now.
>Help would be appreciated. Please note that I ended both reviews with
>similar, but not identical paragraphs to show some of the contrast between
>the two.
>
>
>
>I wrote these using Micro$oft Word in .rtf format and cut and pasted, but I
>don't know how they will appear on the newsgroup, so please accept my
>apologies if things look funny.
>
>
>
>David Wright
>
>
>
>============================================================================
>=======
>
>
>By His Bootstraps © 1941
>
>collected in The Menace From Earth
>
>
>
>In the far future, a very advanced alien race comes to Earth, rules for
>thousands of years and then for unknown reasons disappears leaving behind an
>artifact which provides a means to travel in time.
>
>Bob Wilson, a Ph.D. candidate struggling in a last-minute effort to complete
>his dissertation before the deadline for submission has locked himself in
>his room working at the typewriter when a stranger joins him. The stranger
>promises Bob a great future if he will return with the stranger through the
>"gate" by which he had arrived. Bob, confused by all of this starts drinking
>and before long is quite drunk. He has made up his mind to do as the
>stranger asks when a second stranger appears through the gate and tries to
>prevent this from happening. As they are arguing, Bob receives what appears
>to be a crank call. Afterwards, a scuffle ensues and Bob is knocked through
>the gate.
>
>When he regains consciousness, a middle-aged man named Diktor greets him,
>leads him to a room, treats his wounds and gives him a drink that puts him
>to sleep. Awaking after a day and a half, he meets with the man again who
>explains that they are 30,000 years in the future. Bob recognizes that the
>Diktor is also a visitor from the 20th century. He asks Bob to return to his
>room through the gate, pick up some items and persuade the person he finds
>there to return with him and they would all enjoy a great future together.
>
>Bob goes through the gate and is immediately shocked when he realizes that
>he is the "stranger" who has returned to see himself working there on his
>thesis. He tries to do things differently than that which he remembers from
>his earlier experience, but is unable to say or do anything different. He
>has about convinced his "earlier" self to go through the gate when the scene
>repeats itself with the advent of the second stranger. He experiences more
>shock when he realizes that this stranger is another copy of himself.
>
>After the earlier Bob has been knocked through the gate, he argues with his
>later self and then goes back through the gate where he confronts Diktor.
>Bob argues with him and decides to get off of the merry go round by going
>back through the gate to his own time.
>
>This time he realizes that he has become the second stranger. The scene
>repeats with well-worn familiarity and he is left alone after the first Bob
>is knocked through the gate and the second Bob has left also.
>
>At this point, he considers that he is finished with this nonsense, but, the
>gate is still there and the prospect of living a dull academic life pales in
>comparison with the potentials he saw in the future. He decides to take
>matters into his own hands and goes through the gate once more. He finds the
>list of items that he was supposed to retrieve, resets the controls and
>returns to his own time although at an earlier hour. Having gotten all of
>the items on the list, he makes a phone call to his own apartment to check
>that all is going as he remembered it. Remember the "crank phone call"?
>
>He returns to his room after all of the previous events have transpired and
>goes through the gate again. This time he resets the controls to 10 years in
>the past and returns there. His idea is to take over the place and preempt
>the status of the older man before he can arrive.
>
>10 Years pass and the man never shows up. One day when he is examining the
>gate, he sets it to appear in his old room in his old time. Guess who
>arrives unconscious after having been knocked through the gate and guess who
>he now knows that he himself is?
>
>The cycle of events from the later side of the gate play themselves out just
>as he remembered them with all of the Bobs going and coming just as before
>only now he is doing the part of the older man.
>
>Having entered the set of cycles when he was writing his dissertation, he
>now exits from the cycles after all of the Bobs have come and gone and acted
>out their parts.
>
>
>
>This story along with "All You Zombies" and "The Door Into Summer" are
>examples of what are called "deterministic" or "unchangeable timeline"
>stories. In other words, All of the events take place on time loops, but
>there is no change in what happens each time through the loop. Events are
>"fixed". One philosophical problem associated with this kind of story is
>obvious. What happens to "free will"? In this story Heinlein attempts to
>answer that question with a bit of hand-waving by talking about how events
>are "free" from within the timeline, but "fixed" from a higher dimensional
>viewpoint. He also invokes this idea of higher dimensions, apparently based
>on J.W. Dunne's theories, and does try to use them to provide a "scientific"
>basis for his time traveling.
>
>
>
>Such "fixed events" are not the norm in most of his later works where he
>gets into all sorts of variations, multiple timelines, the changing of
>events through time travel and even the changing of events through direct
>author interaction with the story as in the "erasing" of Marshall Sam Beaux
>in "Cat"
>
>
>
>A graphic showing the timeline for this story may be found at:
>
>http://dwrighsr.tripod.com/heinlein/Bootstraps.gif
>
>
>
>
>
>
>============================================================================
>=======
>
>
>
>
>All You Zombies Ó 1959
>
>Collected in The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag
>
>
>
>This short time travel story of Heinlein's appeared some 18 years later than
>"By His
>
>Bootstraps" with which it bears much in common. It is considered by many to
>be the ultimate in time travel stories.
>
>
>
>A young man who appears to be feeling very sorry for himself tells his life
>history to a bartender. He started out life as a homely girl,(yes I said
>girl), growing up in an orphanage and vowing never to have children out of
>wedlock and abandon them as she apparently had been. In spite of her good
>intentions when she grows up she succumbs to seduction by a young man waving
>around $100 dollar bills and who promptly leaves her behind afterwards.
>Unfortunately, she has become pregnant and in due course gives birth to a
>baby girl. The baby is kidnapped and disappears forever or so she thinks. To
>compound her problems, the doctors who delivered her baby finds out that she
>has both sets of reproductive equipment, the female part of which has been
>pretty well ruined by the pregnancy and so they remove these and turn her
>into a man. The man becomes a writer of women's confession stories and some
>years later finds himself in the bar where he tells his story.
>
>
>
>The bartender is more than he appears to be. He is an agent of a time
>traveling agency and is there to recruit this young man into the same
>service. He baits him by offering to find for him the man who had been the
>cause of his/her "ruination". He gives the man money, and takes him back in
>time leaving him there to find his quarry. The bartender then goes ahead a
>number of months and kidnaps that same month-old baby. He takes her back 19
>or so years and leaves her on the doorstep of an orphanage. The baby, of
>course, subsequently grows up to be the girl/man of the later story. The
>bartender then returns to where he left the young man and finds him to pick
>him up. The young man is in a state of shock basically since he now knows
>that not only that he" was the man who had seduced himself when he was a
>girl, but that the bartender is also a much later version of himself. The
>bartender then takes him into the future where he is left to be recruited
>into the organization. The bartender returns to his own base and reflects on
>all of the events in his life.
>
>
>
> As in a number of Heinlein's works, he toys with the idea of solipsism and
>ends the story with the thoughts of the bartender in what I think is one of
>the most poignant passages that he ever wrote:
>
> "I know where I came from, but where did all you zombies come from?
>
> "I felt a headache coming on, but a headache powder is one thing I don't
>take. I did it once-- and you all went away.
>
> "So I crawled into bed and whistled out the light.
>
> "You aren't really there at all. There isn't anyone but me - Jane - here
>alone in the dark.
>
> I miss you terribly."
>
>
>
>This story along with "Bootstraps" and "The Door Into Summer" are examples
>of what are called "deterministic" or "unchangeable timeline" stories. In
>other words, All of the events take place on time loops, but there is no
>change in what happens each time through the loop. Events are "fixed". One
>philosophical problem associated with this kind of story is obvious. What
>happens to "free will"? Heinlein doesn't attempt to answer that question in
>this story. I expect that he avoids it because it is unanswerable, and in
>this story neither does he try to give any "scientific" basis for his time
>traveling.
>
>
>
>Such "fixed events" are not the norm in most of his later works, where he
>gets into all sorts of variations, multiple timelines, the changing of
>events through time travel and even the changing of events through direct
>author interaction with the story as in the "erasing" of Marshall Sam Beaux
>in "Cat"
>
>
>
>A graphic showing the timeline for this story may be found at:
>
>http://dwrighsr.tripod.com/heinlein/Zombies.gif
>
>============================================================================
>=======
>
>
Geo Rule
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
****
Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison, Jesse James & Friends,
Copperheads, the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21324
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 21:11:43 -0700
Subject: Re: VHS, DVD, and the future
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Of course, our plan wasn't as bad as DIVX's, but here's what DIVX did wrong.
1) Different format. DVD was just catching on and they came out and said,
"Buy our BetaMax instead." Everyone rigtfully said, "you've GOT to be
kidding."
2) Big Brother inside. To make sure you were doing what you said you were
doing, the DIVX player periodically called up the home plant and gave a full
report of your actions with it. If you disconnected it from the phone, it
just stopped working.
3) "How long with this thing last?" Offered by one store, Hollywood not
fully behind it. If Circuit City decides it's a bad idea, your player just
isn't going to work anymore...
Now, imagine if they'd just done it this way.
You add a smartcard reader to the player.
You encode the disk to the currently non-existant region 10. The player
will refuse to play a region 10 disk unless it's "unlocked" first.
You bring your smartcard to the store and purchase a viewing.
You stick the smartcard into the reader and a viewing is charged away. This
unlocks Region 10 for 5 hours (or 24 hours, details). You can now watch any
region 10 disk for that period of time.
Normal format disks. Nothing special about them. All DVD players already
support regions, this is just another one on some disks and an ability to
allow it temporarily.
Big brother has no idea what you're watching. You plug your card in, it
unlocks the reader, and then you watch whatever you want. It may be the
movie you just brought home, it may be the one you brought home three weeks
ago.
No need to run a phone line to your TV, and no worries about what your DVD
is saying about you.
Still has the "if it's a flop, I wasted my money" problem though.
bytor
"Geo Rule" <georule@civilwarstlouis.com> wrote in message
news:hrjihu884389ei653kru5t7upvqbpthqt2@4ax.com...
> Y'know, I *still* don't know why that didn't work. Can you explain
> it to me? I've heard various people have a lot of hostility to the
> idea, but I thot it made a lot of sense.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21325
From: David Wright"
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 10:43:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Geo Rule" <georule@civilwarstlouis.com> wrote in message
news:h7lnhus0frt2ca398sj33amdb147lb4ei4@4ax.com...
>
> David--
>
> Thanks, these look good.
>
Thanks, Geo. I have heard from Deb and will be forwarding the .rtf versions,
(with some minor revisions), to her this evening.
David
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21326
From: Charles Graft
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:23:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Hello again
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
David Silver wrote:
> Charlie,
>
> I'd be honored to carry that CD up to UC Santa Cruz when we visit there
> this ConJose.
>
> David
David--
E-Mail me (chasgraft@aol.com) your snail mail address and I will get a copy
off to you.
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by jackasses." --
H. L. Menken
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21327
From: Charles Graft
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:39:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Hello again
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT--
If your current address is Millersville, I have it. Recordable
CD-ROMs are so cheap, I won't worry about it. Or put it down as my
share of the SFF renewal.
--
<<Big Charlie>>
"Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by
jackasses." -- H. L. Menken
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21328
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 12:57:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Hello again
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Charlie: I hope that you get some time to tell us about your
Alaskan cruise. Did you get to see glaciers? I've never been on a
cruise but I have been told that the Alaska coastal cruises are
about the most beautiful and scenic to be had.
Ed J
On Tue, 25 Jun 2002 05:51:44 -0700, "Charles Graft"
<chasgraft@aol.com> wrote:
>
>Bill--
> Glad to have you back. I haven't had reason to discorse on railroading
>for some time now. I (and all of WVRR's other engineers) are now FRA
>(Federal Railroad Agency) certified and thus widely employable.
> I will be back in Indy with my new wife very shortly now. We took an
>Alaskan cruise for our honeymoon.
>
>Big Charlie
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21329
From: les@vrolyk.org (Les)
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:08:33 GMT
Subject: Re: The Current Heinlein Story Assignments
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 19:32:50 -0700, Geo Rule
<georule@civilwarstlouis.com> wrote:
>
>You have TITS.
>
>(Bad Geo, bad, baad Geo)
>
Thanks Geo!
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21330
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:25:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Hello again
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Charles Graft" <chasgraft@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3d186e8f.0@news.sff.net...
>
> WJaKe--
> Now come on. Don't you count Les, John Paul or Beatrice?
>
>
D'oh!
Sometimes I can't even count on myself! (er, one?) Sometimes I'm covinced
Beatrice is a myth (myth, myth! for you Muppet fans) based on my few
mirage-like encounters. And my _back_ certainly recalls that the Vrolyk's
are local, even if my brain frequently blacks out!
Apologies, all.
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21331
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:27:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Hello again
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Geo Rule" <georule@civilwarstlouis.com> wrote in message
news:jiiahu4go0nao5iqf75bcp0juuuceo99kr@4ax.com...
>
> Fine with me; we (Deb and I) don't have (I don't think) copies of the
> newsletters. Between us and JT or WJaKe we could probably provide a
> copied complete set of The Galactic Citizen. We wouldn't give our
> originals up, but we could certainly run them thru a copier.
>
>
I could provide a mix of some originals, some copies. Can I pack them with
when I schlep out to WorldCon this year? I can provide a complete set, even
though some of the later issues do not include much HF-related content.
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21332
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:29:53 -0400
Subject: WorldCon Thread?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
We had one here, did it die? Wno's going when and where? I should be at the
Fairmont from Wed. Aug 28 to Wed Sept. 4.
Also, there was mention of a Heinlein Dinner. I had a wonderful time last
year, would look forward to it this year. I hope I'm invited back, even
though I did spill soup on my tie!
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21333
From: David Silver
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 21:38:44 -0700
Subject: Re: WorldCon Thread?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
William J. Keaton wrote:
> We had one here, did it die? Wno's going when and where? I should be at the
> Fairmont from Wed. Aug 28 to Wed Sept. 4.
>
> Also, there was mention of a Heinlein Dinner. I had a wonderful time last
> year, would look forward to it this year. I hope I'm invited back, even
> though I did spill soup on my tie!
>
> WJaKe
We enjoyed your company, Jake. The dinner will be Friday evening, August
30, hours TBA. We have a reservation at the Eulipia for up to sixty in
their new banquet room; and I'll be negotiating menu, etc., next week,
so I'll have more details as soon as I can.
I have already about four couples (8) reserved. So the word's getting
around even though little except date and place is set.
David M. Silver
Secretary-Treasurer
The Heinlein Society
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21334
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:03:49 -0700
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Here's my Waldo Synopsis. If anyone would like to comment on/argue about
it, feel free. Maybe you'll convince me to change it before I send it to
Deb...
bytor
---------------
A near future story in which the world has so much power that we're beaming
it through the air and letting passing airplanes absorb what they need to
stay aloft. The machines responsible for latching on to the radiated power
are completely and irrevocably foolproof. So, when they start failing, the
power company is forced to turn to the best scientist/engineer the world has
ever seen, Waldo.
The early part of story is overburdened with exposition, but it takes off
about a third of the way through when Waldo is introduced. Waldo, a
completely handicapped man (no muscular strength anywhere in his body), is
the epitome of the phrase, "Necessity is the mother of invention." He's been
physically unable to take care of himself since birth, and, as a result, has
designed all number of interesting contraptions that allow him to get by. He
started with a simple invention that allowed him to read books while lying
down, and moved up to exoskeletal mechanical arms controlled by dexterous
but faint movements of his own arms. (Side note, there was a text-only
computer game from the late '70s called "Suspended" that had a remote
control robot named "Waldo" in reference to this story.)
Waldo is one of a small number of Heinlein stories that involve "magic," but
this particular one puts about as scientific and plausible a spin on the
concept as is possible. But, in the end, what makes the story enjoyable is
not the quaint view of the "future" as seen in the 1940s (especially since
it takes place in our past), nor the somewhat startling bits he got right
(if you squint, you can sort of see the internet in this), nor the very
believable magic system involved. As with most Heinlein stories, what really
makes this enjoyable is the characters, Waldo in particular. I found him
likeable throughout, from the start when he was an obnoxious SOB to the end
when he'd become much more socially adept. And it was my wanting to see what
would happen to Waldo and how this brilliant person would think his way out
of his troubles that kept me turning pages.
Michael P. Calligaro
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21335
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 01:36:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
bytor: This reads like the kind of synopsis that would tempt
anyone into trying the story and getting to enjoy it for themselves.
You do so without revealing too many details of the story (IMHO)
which is also a good thing.
Well done.
Ed J
On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:03:49 -0700, "Michael P. Calligaro"
<bytor@mystikeep.com> wrote:
>Here's my Waldo Synopsis. If anyone would like to comment on/argue about
>it, feel free. Maybe you'll convince me to change it before I send it to
>Deb...
>
>bytor
<snip>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21336
From: Kristina Forsyth"
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 11:26:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Did you deliberately decide to leave out the relationship between the name
"Waldo" and the real-world devices used to handle materials at a remove
called "waldoes"? I ask because you mention the game Suspended at the
moment I was expecting the waldoes info-bite.
T
"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net > wrote in message
news:sv5thucmoie1mlipd0evoqn5m0f6qvk6qp@4ax.com...
> bytor: This reads like the kind of synopsis that would tempt
> anyone into trying the story and getting to enjoy it for themselves.
> You do so without revealing too many details of the story (IMHO)
> which is also a good thing.
> Well done.
>
> Ed J
>
>
> On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:03:49 -0700, "Michael P. Calligaro"
> <bytor@mystikeep.com> wrote:
>
> >Here's my Waldo Synopsis. If anyone would like to comment on/argue about
> >it, feel free. Maybe you'll convince me to change it before I send it to
> >Deb...
> >
> >bytor
> <snip>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21337
From: Geo Rule
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 12:01:29 -0700
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Thanks, Bytor
The echo I've always heard in this story that made me the most
curious was the bit about the emitted radiation of all this power to
run these gadgets is weakening the human race, etc. This in 1942;
were they arguing about whether it was safe to live next to power
lines back then too? Or did RAH steal a march on everyone there too?
Certainly they couldn't have been arguing about whether it was safe to
use cell phones because of the emissions.
Juxtapose the "magic" solution with all the arguments that go on about
whether studies on these things are "junk science" and I can almost
convince myself that Waldo is topical biting social commentary of
today.
Best. Geo
On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:03:49 -0700, "Michael P. Calligaro"
<bytor@mystikeep.com> wrote:
>Here's my Waldo Synopsis. If anyone would like to comment on/argue about
>it, feel free. Maybe you'll convince me to change it before I send it to
>Deb...
>
>bytor
>
>---------------
>A near future story in which the world has so much power that we're beaming
>it through the air and letting passing airplanes absorb what they need to
>stay aloft. The machines responsible for latching on to the radiated power
>are completely and irrevocably foolproof. So, when they start failing, the
>power company is forced to turn to the best scientist/engineer the world has
>ever seen, Waldo.
>
>The early part of story is overburdened with exposition, but it takes off
>about a third of the way through when Waldo is introduced. Waldo, a
>completely handicapped man (no muscular strength anywhere in his body), is
>the epitome of the phrase, "Necessity is the mother of invention." He's been
>physically unable to take care of himself since birth, and, as a result, has
>designed all number of interesting contraptions that allow him to get by. He
>started with a simple invention that allowed him to read books while lying
>down, and moved up to exoskeletal mechanical arms controlled by dexterous
>but faint movements of his own arms. (Side note, there was a text-only
>computer game from the late '70s called "Suspended" that had a remote
>control robot named "Waldo" in reference to this story.)
>
>Waldo is one of a small number of Heinlein stories that involve "magic," but
>this particular one puts about as scientific and plausible a spin on the
>concept as is possible. But, in the end, what makes the story enjoyable is
>not the quaint view of the "future" as seen in the 1940s (especially since
>it takes place in our past), nor the somewhat startling bits he got right
>(if you squint, you can sort of see the internet in this), nor the very
>believable magic system involved. As with most Heinlein stories, what really
>makes this enjoyable is the characters, Waldo in particular. I found him
>likeable throughout, from the start when he was an obnoxious SOB to the end
>when he'd become much more socially adept. And it was my wanting to see what
>would happen to Waldo and how this brilliant person would think his way out
>of his troubles that kept me turning pages.
>
>Michael P. Calligaro
>
>
Geo Rule
www.civilwarstlouis.com
****
Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison,
Jesse James & Friends, Copperheads,
the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21338
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 14:25:27 -0700
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Yeah, in an earlier revision of this I'd mentioned that, the ATM machine in
the Door into Summer, and the fact that some of the best minds in Robotics
today went into the field because they read Asimov. But I decided the
synopsis had gotten too bogged down in non-synopsis stuff and cut most of
that out. As for choosing to spend the info-bite on the Infocom game
instead of the real-world Waldoes, it's mostly a taste and perception thing.
My life was more affected by Infocom games than remote control robotic arms,
and my perception is that the term "Waldo" isn't particularly widespread,
largely because those types of remote control arms aren't all that
widespread. In general, places where we might use something like that we
can do better with fully automatic robotic arms (ie, assembly plants, etc).
So, while the term held some meaning in the real world, it's less relevant
now simply because the tech behind it is less relevant. I guess the same
could be said of text-only adventure games, but they still hold a special
place in my heart. (-:
bytor
"Kristina Forsyth" <kgf@sff.net> wrote in message
news:3d1f2413.0@news.sff.net...
> Did you deliberately decide to leave out the relationship between the name
> "Waldo" and the real-world devices used to handle materials at a remove
> called "waldoes"? I ask because you mention the game Suspended at the
> moment I was expecting the waldoes info-bite.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21339
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 14:29:37 -0700
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Yeah, the trouble with the radiated power bits in Waldo, though, was that
most of that was SO expository I actually found it a little difficult to get
through the first 3rd of the story. I know that in later life, Heinlein was
popular enough to be able to ignore his editors, but I don't know HOW he got
away with the early part of Waldo back then.
bytor
"Geo Rule" <georule@civilwarstlouis.com> wrote in message
news:m1luhu0vhv5l07l2b9qdehprv2eeh333qt@4ax.com...
> The echo I've always heard in this story that made me the most
> curious was the bit about the emitted radiation of all this power to
> run these gadgets is weakening the human race, etc. This in 1942;
> were they arguing about whether it was safe to live next to power
> lines back then too? Or did RAH steal a march on everyone there too?
> Certainly they couldn't have been arguing about whether it was safe to
> use cell phones because of the emissions.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21340
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 22:42:26 GMT
Subject: Re: Hello again
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:39:06 -0500, Charles Graft <chasgraft@aol.com>
wrote:
>JT--
> If your current address is Millersville, I have it. Recordable
>CD-ROMs are so cheap, I won't worry about it. Or put it down as my
>share of the SFF renewal.
>
30-year mortgage, not going anywhere. <VBG>
Thanks!
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21341
From: Kristina Forsyth"
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 19:53:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I just wondered if you had done it on purpose. I knew about waldoes long
before I read the story, so it was a pleasant surprise discovering that the
device was named for the character, rather than vice versa. I own
Suspended, but never played it, and now my 51/4 floppies are useless to me.
:(
T
"Michael P. Calligaro" <bytor@mystikeep.com> wrote in message
news:3d1f772a.0@news.sff.net...
> Yeah, in an earlier revision of this I'd mentioned that, the ATM machine
in
> the Door into Summer, and the fact that some of the best minds in Robotics
> today went into the field because they read Asimov. But I decided the
> synopsis had gotten too bogged down in non-synopsis stuff and cut most of
> that out. As for choosing to spend the info-bite on the Infocom game
> instead of the real-world Waldoes, it's mostly a taste and perception
thing.
> My life was more affected by Infocom games than remote control robotic
arms,
> and my perception is that the term "Waldo" isn't particularly widespread,
> largely because those types of remote control arms aren't all that
> widespread. In general, places where we might use something like that we
> can do better with fully automatic robotic arms (ie, assembly plants,
etc).
> So, while the term held some meaning in the real world, it's less relevant
> now simply because the tech behind it is less relevant. I guess the same
> could be said of text-only adventure games, but they still hold a special
> place in my heart. (-:
>
> bytor
>
> "Kristina Forsyth" <kgf@sff.net> wrote in message
> news:3d1f2413.0@news.sff.net...
> > Did you deliberately decide to leave out the relationship between the
name
> > "Waldo" and the real-world devices used to handle materials at a remove
> > called "waldoes"? I ask because you mention the game Suspended at the
> > moment I was expecting the waldoes info-bite.
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21342
From: Voxwoman
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 07:44:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Having been taught by a bunch of Radar pioneers at college, and actually
seen an early prototype microwave oven (about the size of 2
refrigerators, lol) I can quite imagine that there would be some concern
regarding radiation and health. Additionally, I think the word
"radiation" was kind of a hot button all on its own.
(although they didn't know until the 60s or so that working on an
operating microwave transmitter was bad for you until all the
technicians started getting cataracts)
-Wendy of NJ
Geo Rule wrote:
> Thanks, Bytor
>
> The echo I've always heard in this story that made me the most
> curious was the bit about the emitted radiation of all this power to
> run these gadgets is weakening the human race, etc. This in 1942;
> were they arguing about whether it was safe to live next to power
> lines back then too? Or did RAH steal a march on everyone there too?
> Certainly they couldn't have been arguing about whether it was safe to
> use cell phones because of the emissions.
>
> Juxtapose the "magic" solution with all the arguments that go on about
> whether studies on these things are "junk science" and I can almost
> convince myself that Waldo is topical biting social commentary of
> today.
>
> Best. Geo
>
> On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:03:49 -0700, "Michael P. Calligaro"
> <bytor@mystikeep.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Here's my Waldo Synopsis. If anyone would like to comment on/argue about
>>it, feel free. Maybe you'll convince me to change it before I send it to
>>Deb...
>>
>>bytor
>>
>>---------------
>>A near future story in which the world has so much power that we're beaming
>>it through the air and letting passing airplanes absorb what they need to
>>stay aloft. The machines responsible for latching on to the radiated power
>>are completely and irrevocably foolproof. So, when they start failing, the
>>power company is forced to turn to the best scientist/engineer the world has
>>ever seen, Waldo.
>>
>>The early part of story is overburdened with exposition, but it takes off
>>about a third of the way through when Waldo is introduced. Waldo, a
>>completely handicapped man (no muscular strength anywhere in his body), is
>>the epitome of the phrase, "Necessity is the mother of invention." He's been
>>physically unable to take care of himself since birth, and, as a result, has
>>designed all number of interesting contraptions that allow him to get by. He
>>started with a simple invention that allowed him to read books while lying
>>down, and moved up to exoskeletal mechanical arms controlled by dexterous
>>but faint movements of his own arms. (Side note, there was a text-only
>>computer game from the late '70s called "Suspended" that had a remote
>>control robot named "Waldo" in reference to this story.)
>>
>>Waldo is one of a small number of Heinlein stories that involve "magic," but
>>this particular one puts about as scientific and plausible a spin on the
>>concept as is possible. But, in the end, what makes the story enjoyable is
>>not the quaint view of the "future" as seen in the 1940s (especially since
>>it takes place in our past), nor the somewhat startling bits he got right
>>(if you squint, you can sort of see the internet in this), nor the very
>>believable magic system involved. As with most Heinlein stories, what really
>>makes this enjoyable is the characters, Waldo in particular. I found him
>>likeable throughout, from the start when he was an obnoxious SOB to the end
>>when he'd become much more socially adept. And it was my wanting to see what
>>would happen to Waldo and how this brilliant person would think his way out
>>of his troubles that kept me turning pages.
>>
>>Michael P. Calligaro
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Geo Rule
>
> www.civilwarstlouis.com
> ****
> Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
> the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison,
> Jesse James & Friends, Copperheads,
> the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch.
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21343
From: hf_jai@prodigy.net (Jai Johnson-Pickett)
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 16:13:36 GMT
Subject: Re: Hello again
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On 20 Jun 2002 06:24:53 GMT, Wdailey611@aol.com wrote:
>Bill in KC (I'm not in Minneapolis anymore, I'm in Kansas City.)
No kiddin'? We need to get together some time. We live in Stilwell
KS (southern Johnson County).
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21344
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 01:42:47 GMT
Subject: Re: something for free, but not lunch
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Sat, 22 Jun 2002 18:53:05 -0400, "noone" <no_one@home> wrote:
>i've been more a lurker than a contributor here but amist my junk i've just
>come across a clipping from a "cult movies" publication titled "the
>starship troopers symposium",
Thanks to 'Gunner', the article is now available for your scholarship
via the HF's website.
http://www.sff.net/people/HF/
--JusTin
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21345
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 21:05:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I had the same pleasant surprise, but with the game instead of the real life
arms. (-: Of course, I was playing infocom games long before I was reading
Heinlein.
They used to have a "Lost Treasures of Infocom" that gave you almost all of
the games, but when I bought it, I was a mac user. I didn't have the
foresight to buy it again when I switched over to NT and now I don't think
you can really find them anymore. A number of people have done emulators
for other platforms (including palm and pocketpc) that use the original data
from the games (kind of like MAME, but for Infocom games), and I
occasionally feel like making one work on my pocketpc, but I haven't gotten
around to it. As cool as the games were, I did them all, so playing them
again would just be nostalgic and not all that much fun.
bytor
"Kristina Forsyth" <kgf@sff.net> wrote in message
news:3d1f9b03.0@news.sff.net...
> I just wondered if you had done it on purpose. I knew about waldoes long
> before I read the story, so it was a pleasant surprise discovering that
the
> device was named for the character, rather than vice versa. I own
> Suspended, but never played it, and now my 51/4 floppies are useless to
me.
> :(
>
> T
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21346
From: KarenDTM"
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 23:09:07 -0700
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Bytor,
Try xyzzy.com. There used to be a link to a site where an Infocom cd could
be purchased.
Karen
"Michael P. Calligaro" <bytor@mystikeep.com> wrote in message
news:3d21264d.0@news.sff.net...
> I had the same pleasant surprise, but with the game instead of the real
life
> arms. (-: Of course, I was playing infocom games long before I was
reading
> Heinlein.
>
> They used to have a "Lost Treasures of Infocom" that gave you almost all
of
> the games, but when I bought it, I was a mac user. I didn't have the
> foresight to buy it again when I switched over to NT and now I don't think
> you can really find them anymore. A number of people have done emulators
> for other platforms (including palm and pocketpc) that use the original
data
> from the games (kind of like MAME, but for Infocom games), and I
> occasionally feel like making one work on my pocketpc, but I haven't
gotten
> around to it. As cool as the games were, I did them all, so playing them
> again would just be nostalgic and not all that much fun.
>
> bytor
>
>
> "Kristina Forsyth" <kgf@sff.net> wrote in message
> news:3d1f9b03.0@news.sff.net...
> > I just wondered if you had done it on purpose. I knew about waldoes
long
> > before I read the story, so it was a pleasant surprise discovering that
> the
> > device was named for the character, rather than vice versa. I own
> > Suspended, but never played it, and now my 51/4 floppies are useless to
> me.
> > :(
> >
> > T
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21347
From: Geo Rule
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 19:40:32 -0700
Subject: Lost Treasures of Infocom
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1363125996
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2036449738
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1362251108
Although one of those is only for Amiga.
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 21:05:00 -0700, "Michael P. Calligaro"
<bytor@mystikeep.com> wrote:
>I had the same pleasant surprise, but with the game instead of the real life
>arms. (-: Of course, I was playing infocom games long before I was reading
>Heinlein.
>
>They used to have a "Lost Treasures of Infocom" that gave you almost all of
>the games, but when I bought it, I was a mac user. I didn't have the
>foresight to buy it again when I switched over to NT and now I don't think
>you can really find them anymore. A number of people have done emulators
>for other platforms (including palm and pocketpc) that use the original data
>from the games (kind of like MAME, but for Infocom games), and I
>occasionally feel like making one work on my pocketpc, but I haven't gotten
>around to it. As cool as the games were, I did them all, so playing them
>again would just be nostalgic and not all that much fun.
>
>bytor
Geo Rule
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
****
Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison, Jesse James & Friends,
Copperheads, the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21348
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 02:43:18 GMT
Subject: Re: RAHketteer Newsletters on the Web
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 02:08:49 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT) wrote:
>Does anyone have a chunk of web space where they could create a
>subdirectory and we could dump those out there?
Thanks to Karen Cottrell & husband Robert, who have donated space on
their web server, the complete SFF Net HF archives are now available.
When BC gets me the CD of the Prodigy posts I will see how much of
that can be posted, too.
Of course, your starting point is still:
http://www.sff.net/people/HF/ .
--JusTin
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21349
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 03:25:25 GMT
Subject: Re: Lost Treasures of Infocom
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Or you can just play them online. ;)
http://www.xs4all.nl/~pot/infocom/
I take NO responsibility for the amount of time wasted.
I have the Zork Anthology, Zork Nemesis, and the Mystery Collection
for PC/Mac. I don't have Suspended as one of those. I had many of
the other ones for the Commodore 64 but those are long gone.
I found a GameBoy ROM version of Suspended out on the 'net but have
not yet got a working emulator. It's getting late. ;)
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21350
From: WDailey611@aol.com
Date: 3 Jul 2002 09:14:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Hello again
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Yeah, I'm back in Overland Park. I've been remiss in not getting ahold
of y'all since Deb and I were at your place. I'm terrible about stuff like
that. I'll check and see if I still have your phone number. Is Chuck still
working for BNSF?
Bill in KC
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21351
From: WDailey@aol.com
Date: 3 Jul 2002 09:34:03 GMT
Subject: Re: Hello again
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Big Charlie,
Glad to hear you're still a hoghead on the railroad. Apparently the increased
insurance rates due to Sept. 11 are killing some of the excursion operations.
I heard Frisco 1522 is shut down. UP 3985 came through KC about a week
ago from Des Moines. A friend and I went to a location where we could watch
it run by (we've already seen it on static display). Unfortunately, they
made better time than we expected, and they were already in the UP yard
in Kansas City, KS by the time we arrived at the location. Oh, well.
Nice to hear from you again.
Bill in KC
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21352
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 20:22:46 GMT
Subject: First Reviews Up
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
The first set of reviews are up: Searchlight, By His Bootstraps, All
You Zombies.
http://www.dahoudek.com/heinlein
Deb (D.A. Houdek)
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21353
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 01:31:55 GMT
Subject: Re: Lost Treasures of Infocom
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Wed, 03 Jul 2002 03:25:25 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT) wrote:
>Or you can just play them online. ;)
>
>http://www.xs4all.nl/~pot/infocom/
>
I also found a site that has the game files online; interpreters are
freely available.
http://www.latz.org/games/list.shtml
Of course, if you don't own the games in some other format you're
breaking copyright law.
You can also order the Masterpieces of Infocom which has just about
everything but Hitchhiker's (which Douglas Adams is giving away via
his site, apparently) and another game I didn't care about through a
site here:
http://www.lacegem.com/default.html .
I'm actually thinking about it. I'd forgotten how many of these I'd
actually played!
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21354
From: John Paul Vrolyk
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 00:14:36 -0400
Subject: An HF tradition continues.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
As this is my first Independance Day in the United States
since being Lawfully Admitted For Permanent Residence, allow
me to fulfill our July 4th tradition:
The Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen
Colonies
In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united
States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary
for one people to dissolve the political bands which have
connected them with another, and to assume among the
powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which
the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a
decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they
should declare the causes which impel them to the
separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are
created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with
certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty
and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights,
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just
powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever
any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends,
it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to
institute new Government, laying its foundation on such
principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them
shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long
established should not be changed for light and transient
causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that
mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are
sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms
to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of
abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object
evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism,
it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government,
and to provide new Guards for their future security. --Such
has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such
is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their
former Systems of Government. The history of the present
King of Great Britain [George III] is a history of repeated
injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the
establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To
prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and
necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate
and pressing importance, unless suspended in their
operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so
suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of
large districts of people, unless those people would
relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a
right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual,
uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their
public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into
compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for
opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of
the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to
cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers,
incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at
large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean
time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without,
and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these
States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for
Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to
encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions
of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing
his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the
tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their
salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither
swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their
substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies
without the consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and
superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction
foreign to our constitution and unacknowledged by our laws;
giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for
any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of
these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us, in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by
Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended
offences:
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a
neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary
government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it
at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the
same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable
Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our
Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring
themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all
cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of
his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our
towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign
Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and
tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty and
perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and
totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the
high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the
executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall
themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has
endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the
merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an
undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and
conditions.
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for
Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions
have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose
character is thus marked by every act which may define a
Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British
brethren. We have warned them from time to time of
attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable
jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the
circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We
have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and
we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to
disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt
our connections and correspondence. They too have been
deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must,
therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our
Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind,
Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of
America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the
Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our
intentions, do, in the Name, and by the Authority of the good
People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That
these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and
Independent States; that they are Absolved from all
Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political
connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is
and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and
Independent States, they have full Power to levy War,
conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and
to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may
of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a
firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we
mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and
our sacred Honor.
--
John Paul Vrolyk
jp@vrolyk.org
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21355
From: Geo Rule
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 21:27:18 -0700
Subject: Re: An HF tradition continues.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Thanks, JP.
On Thu, 04 Jul 2002 00:14:36 -0400, John Paul Vrolyk <jp@vrolyk.org>
wrote:
>As this is my first Independance Day in the United States
>since being Lawfully Admitted For Permanent Residence, allow
>me to fulfill our July 4th tradition:
>
>
>
Geo Rule
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
****
Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison, Jesse James & Friends,
Copperheads, the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21356
From: Audrey
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 21:42:28 -0700
Subject: Re: An HF tradition continues.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Thanks from my corner too....
Audrey
Geo Rule wrote:
> Thanks, JP.
>
> On Thu, 04 Jul 2002 00:14:36 -0400, John Paul Vrolyk <jp@vrolyk.org>
> wrote:
>
> >As this is my first Independance Day in the United States
> >since being Lawfully Admitted For Permanent Residence, allow
> >me to fulfill our July 4th tradition:
> >
> >
> >
>
> Geo Rule
>
> http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
> ****
> Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
> the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison, Jesse James & Friends,
> Copperheads, the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21357
From: William J. Keaton"
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 01:41:52 -0400
Subject: Re: An HF tradition continues.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"John Paul Vrolyk" <jp@vrolyk.org> wrote in message
news:3D23CBAC.D71C2052@vrolyk.org...
> As this is my first Independance Day in the United States
> since being Lawfully Admitted For Permanent Residence, allow
> me to fulfill our July 4th tradition:
>
>
Dang, beat me to it! Thanks JP! And by the way, welcome!
WJaKe
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21358
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 06:31:10 -0400
Subject: Re: An HF tradition continues.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Thanks!
Is the card really green? [g]
--
Eli V. Hestermann
ehestermann@tmlp.com
"Vita brevis est, ars longa" - Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21359
From: David Wright"
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 09:27:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Heinlein Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Deb Houdek Rule" <debrule@dahoudek.com> wrote in message
news:3d13abb9.2286190@NEWS.SFF.NET...
>
> >Okay, if Deb gets Revolt in 2100, and Doc gets Starship Troopers; then I
get
> >"We Also Walk Dogs" and a couple ~Puddin'~ stories. (Door into Summer
was
> >my first full length RAH story, but it's pleasure has faded.)
>
> Geo volunteered me for Revolt in 2100 because I'm going to be doing
> a piece on it about the Civil War Missouri influences in the story. I
> think another review would be appropriate, though, if you'd care to
> volunteer.
Deb & Geo. I have a short piece on "Elsewhen" whic I would like to submit.
If this is acceptable, I'll send a copy along to you in e-mail. No spoilers
this time, I think. :)
David
=============
Elsewhen ? Robert A. Heinlein 1941
Collected in Assignment in Eternity
"Most people think of time as a track that they run on from birth to death
as inexorably as a train follows its rails-they feel instinctively that time
follows a straight line, the past lying behind, the future lying in front.
Now I have reason to believe-to know- that time is analogous to a surface
rather than a line, and a rolling hilly surface at that. Think of this track
we follow over the surface of time as a winding road cut through hills.
Every little way the road branches and the branches follow side canyons. At
these branches the crucial decisions of your life take place. You can turn
right or left into entirely different futures. Occasionally there is a
switchback where one can scramble up or down a bank and skip over a few
thousand or million years-if you don't have your eyes so fixed on the road
that you miss the short cut.
"Once in a while another road crosses yours. Neither its past nor its future
has any connection whatsoever with the world we know. If you happened to
take that turn you might find yourself on another planet in another
space-time with nothing left of you or your world but the continuity of your
ego.
"Or, if you have the necessary intellectual strength and courage, you may
leave the roads, or paths of high probability, and strike out over the hills
of possible time, cutting through the roads as you come to them, following
them for a little way, even following them backwards, with the past ahead of
you, and the future behind you. Or you might roam around the hilltops doing
nothing but the extremely improbable. I can not imagine what that would be
like-perhaps a bit like Alice-through-the-Looking-Glass."
With this speech, Professor Frost introduces his class in speculative
metaphysics to the concept that the world is much broader than they know. He
teaches them how to use hypnosis to leave their own time and dimension and
travel through this broader world as he himself had done. There they find
adventures, exciting discoveries and new lives.
With story settings similar to Murray Leinster's classic "Sidewise in Time",
and L. Sprague de Camp's stories of Professor Chalmers and Harold Shea,
Heinlein takes us along on trips of discovery not only of new worlds, but of
the people who discover these new worlds.
This story, one of Heinlein's earliest, is a pre-cursor in several ways to
his World-As-Myth, which he introduces explicitly in "The Number of the
Beast" some 38 years later. The two most strikingly common elements are the
multi-dimensional aspect of time and the part that the traveler's
personality plays in determining the worlds that are open to them.
The story rationale appears to be based on P.D. Ouspenskij's and J.W. Dunne'
s theories of time as he explicitly mentions both of these writers here in
this story.
A detailed study of this work by Bill Patterson with a more complete summary
can be found in "The Heinlein Journal", Issue No. 4, p. 24, January, 1999.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21360
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 4 Jul 2002 15:21:29 GMT
Subject: Re: An HF tradition continues.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Thanks from Seattle, as well. I wish I had more time to spend around here
with you guys.
Filksinger
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21361
From: Filksinger"
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 12:04:04 -0700
Subject: Re: Hi Everyone
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
bytor is right about the gremlins.
If the setting fails for no apparent reason, and starts working again later,
here's the main fixes I know:
1. Go to Control Panel, Internet Options, Connections. If is set to "Never
dial a connection", set it to "Dial whenever a network connection is not
present". If it is set to anything else, set it to "Never dial....", then
back.
2. If that doesn't help, there are possible corrupt Registry keys. If you
want to use those, they can be found at
http://msft.kanisasolution.com/search/viewDoc.aspx?docID=KC.Q190921&url=kb;e
n-us;Q190921&dialogID=501962614&iterationID=1&sessionID=TR3|501832192, or
just search for "autodial" at http://support.microsoft.com.
Filksinger
"Michael P. Calligaro" <bytor@mystikeep.com> wrote in message
news:3d1947c9.0@news.sff.net...
> Which OS, Dee? I'm afraid I won't be much help here, because I suspect
it's
> not XP, and I've never really used any of the Dos variants (I pretty much
> went straight from the Mac to NT). Worse, when I was on a modem, I NEVER
> used the autodial functionality. I really hated it deciding to dial when
it
> thought it was important to do so. I felt that when I wanted to get
online,
> I'd tell it, and when I wanted to get off, I'd tell it again. So I always
> dialed manually. It's kind of the reason a manual transmission is better
> than an automatic (unless you've got my car, since no human could shift my
> card, but my car is the highest tech production vehicle on the planet...).
> The automatic can pay better attention to the tach, etc, and shift more
> precisely than a manual can, but the automatic can't tell that you're JUST
> about to crest this hill and might downshift when it's going to need to
> upshift an half a second (even my car can't figure that out, but he
doesn't
> shift, so it doesn't much matter :-).
>
> That's how I felt about the autodialer. Yeah, I'm getting mail now, but
it
> can't tell that I'm going to open the web browser in a second, so it
> disconnects as soon as it finishes getting the mail. Now I'm got to go
> through the whole "dial and hope for a good connection" bit again.
>
> Not that any of that helps you. If you bring up the properties on the
> manual dialer (varies from OS to OS, but usually right click and select
> properties) it should give you a box with a dizzying array of options to
> peek and poke, along with multiple tabs full of more optoins. If my
memory
> serves me correctly, somewhere in that maze is a checkbox that says
> something amounting to "Automatically dial this connection when something
> wants to connect to the internet." If, when you're having trouble, you go
> find that box and it's not selected, there's your problem. Select it. If
> it IS selected. Try unselecting it and clicking whatever variety of
"Okay,
> just do it already" boxes you need too. Then open it again and notice
that
> it's not selected. Now select it and it should be fine. If that doesn't
> work. Try unselecting it. Restarting the machine, and then reselecting
it.
> Note that, since I've never used the DOS variants, this might be a
complete
> wild goose chase. Don't hold me to it.
>
> If you're on XP, you can skip the maze above and follow the following
> directions (as told to me by my cat (no, not the useless freeloaders who
> didn't even catch the mouse that scared Julie so much, the cute little
> yellowish/orange one that they're trying to get rid of, but I still like,
> despite the fact that MS Bob made a company I'd invested in go down the
> tubes...))
>
> Go to Network Connections (you can get there a myrid of ways, but the best
> is to go to help and support and type in "autodial"). From there click on
> the "Advanced" dropdown. Then choose "Dialing properties." Then you can
> play the whole, "tell it that you don't want it to dial so that you can
tell
> it that you do want it to dial" game from there.
>
>
> As for WHY this is happening. That's easy. Gremlins.
>
> bytor
>
>
> "Dee" <ke4lfgDELETETHIS@amsat.org> wrote in message
> news:3d183525.0@news.sff.net...
> >
> > bytor wrote:
> > > I'm up for a computer lesson. Got anything in mind? Current areas of
> > > specialty are embedded opperating systems and cellular technologies,
but
> > you
> > > never really lose the other stuff.
> >
> > Okay, here's something that has happened to me several times. I don't
> know
> > what sauses it, and I don't know what makes it (eventually) go away.
> >
> > Normally, when I click on the icon for my internet service, or for
> > Outlook Express, my home page or my mail and news page come up
> > automatically, and my ISP is dialed up. Every so often, it just
"forgets"
> > to do a dialup, and I get "not found" messages. I have to back up, clik
> on
> > the connection icon, then after it dials up, open the page. This
> condition
> > will continue, anywhere from days to months, then go into spontaneous
> > remission, for all that I can tell.
> >
> > Second problem--Although I havr the "remember this password" checked
> for
> > my basic sign on and for my mail sign on, I have to put my password in
> > manuall every time to read my mail.
> >
> > So, bytor, in addition to tellling me what to do, maybe you will do
a
> > bytor-lesson on what's going on here. Computer class is now in session.
> >
> > --Dee
> >
> >
> >
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21362
From: Filksinger"
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 12:06:42 -0700
Subject: Re: Hi Everyone
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Dee" <ke4lfgDELETETHIS@amsat.org> wrote in message
news:3d183525.0@news.sff.net...
<snip>
> Second problem--Although I havr the "remember this password" checked
for
> my basic sign on and for my mail sign on, I have to put my password in
> manuall every time to read my mail.
This could be a corrupt mail account, a corrupt password library, or a
corrupt network client. To help pin it down, I want to know three things:
Which OS?
Which mail program?
What is listed in the installed network components in Control Panel>Network?
Also, when, exactly, does it give this error? Does it connect, then get this
error, or fail to connect?
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21363
From: Filksinger"
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 12:18:41 -0700
Subject: Re: Hello again
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Voxwoman" <voxwoman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3D1319ED.7090700@hotmail.com...
> Well I've been to every worldcon on the east coast since 1974, and I
> used to dress pretty outrageously, but gave up because there was always
> someone who managed to wear LESS than I.
I know the feeling. My first con was on a Halloween weekend, so I had to
wear _something_. Since I wasn't a good costumer (and was nearly broke), I
decided to go for something distinctive in another way. I put on old age
makeup, a picture frame around my head, and went as "The Picture of Dorian
Grey".
Next con, I wore blue makeup, white hair, and little blue antennae, with a
picture frame around my head. "The Picture of Andorean Grey". That is the
only costume I ever wore that got me hit without warning from people I
passed in the hall.:)
> Philcon is my "never miss"
> convention, and I used to get to Balticon on a regular basis, but
> haven't in a long time. (I also used to be the person with the "Real
> Life Heinlein Female" button on)
I try (but often fail) to get to the cons on the West Coast, but I usually
don't make it even to all the ones in the Pacific Northwest. If I had seen
that button, though, I'd remember you.:)
--
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21364
From: Filksinger"
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:52:04 -0700
Subject: Re: another question from "no one
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"noone" <no_one@home> wrote in message news:3d1a32e9.0@news.sff.net...
> actually it's me, "gunner" again, does anyone here happen to know of a
> newsgroup like this devoted to filk music, exchanging lyrics and music and
> general gossip, either in sff.net or alt.binaries. info would be
> appreciated, thanks.
> "gunner"
I heartily recommend rec.music.filk. I'd hang out there, if I had time. I
did for a while, then they took away my cushy job.:(
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21365
From: Dee"
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 18:23:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Hi Everyone
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Dee wrote:
> > Second problem--Although I have the "remember this password" checked
> > for my basic sign on and for my mail sign on, I have
> > to put my password in manually every time to read my mail.
Filksinger wrote:
> This could be a corrupt mail account, a corrupt password library, or a
> corrupt network client. To help pin it down, I want to know three things:
> Which OS?
Win 98
> Which mail program?
Outlook Express
> What is listed in the installed network components in Control
Panel>Network?
Nothing described exactly that way. Under the configuration tab are:
Client for Microsoft Networks
Dial-Up Adapter
Dial-Up Adapter #2 (VPN Support)
LNE 100 TX Fast Ethernet Adapter Version 1.0
Microsoft Virtual Private Networking Adapter
NDISWAN -> Microsoft Virtual PRivate Networking Adapter
TCPIP -> Dial-Up Adapter
TCPIP -> Dial-Up Adapter #2 (VPN Support)
TCPIP -> LNE 100 TX Fast Ethernet Adapter Version 1.0
Is that what you mean?
> Also, when, exactly, does it give this error? Does it connect, then get
this
> error, or fail to connect?
It doen't give me an actual error message, Filk, but this is what
happens: When I connect to my ISP, no problem. Everything on automatic, as
I wanted. (And I forgot to say thanks to bytor for solving that problem.
Thanks bytor!) I have it set for automatic commection, but not automatic
disconnection. Then when I click to read mail (or if I connect to OW
directly, instead of launching Internet Explorer first) it connects, then
when it is "authorizing" there is a little dialogue box for entering
username and password that comes up. Username is filled in, but password is
blank, no matter how many times I put in my password and check "remember
password." It did not used to work this way--it used to do it all
automatically. It is not a big deal, either way, but I don't know why it
changed.
Sorry I cannot describe it better. I never learned the vocabulary well
enough.
--Dee
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21366
From: Dee"
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 18:29:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Hi Everyone
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
bytor--
Thanks, you gave me the clues to figure it out, as well as to figure out
what was happening when my other computer, networked, started dialling up a
connection all by itself, regularly. I never intentionally changed any
settings, but obviously I changedd some unintentionally.
--Dee
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21367
From: Dee"
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 18:30:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Hi Everyone
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
David--
I forgot to say this computer is not networked.
--Dee
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21368
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 22:02:38 -0700
Subject: Re: Hi Everyone
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
You THINK you unintentionally changed something, but I'm sticking by the
"gremlins" explanation...
Glad to be able to help.
bytor
"Dee" <ke4lfgDELETETHIS@amsat.org> wrote in message
news:3d24da40.0@news.sff.net...
> I never intentionally changed any
> settings, but obviously I changedd some unintentionally.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21369
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 22:04:27 -0700
Subject: Re: Hi Everyone
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Anytime, Dee. Unfortunately, this one doesn't ring any bells.
bytor
"Dee" <ke4lfgDELETETHIS@amsat.org> wrote in message
news:3d24da3e.0@news.sff.net...
> (And I forgot to say thanks to bytor for solving that problem.
> Thanks bytor!)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21370
From: Dee"
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 06:36:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Hi Everyone
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Michael P. Calligaro" <bytor@mystikeep.com> wrote in message
news:3d25286e.0@news.sff.net...
> You THINK you unintentionally changed something, but I'm sticking by the
> "gremlins" explanation...
Yeah, I don't know why we call them "inanimate objects." They obviously
have an animus, and it is hostile to human beings. (For those who read
Spider's _Callahan_ stories, Solitaire's probllem is not primarily because
of SF, it is mostly because of the experience people have had with existing
computers.)
Stupidcomputer is one word.
(Tongue mostly in cheek.)
I like the gremlin theory, too, as I don't really _believe_ I changed
anything. But saying that out loud gets one wary reactions, and significant
looks are exchanged between listeners, sometimes accompanied by circular
gestures near the temple.
--Dee
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21371
From: Filksinger"
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 09:14:36 -0700
Subject: Re: Hi Everyone
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Dee" <ke4lfgDELETETHIS@amsat.org> wrote in message
news:3d2584ab.0@news.sff.net...
<snip>
> I like the gremlin theory, too, as I don't really _believe_ I changed
> anything. But saying that out loud gets one wary reactions, and
significant
> looks are exchanged between listeners, sometimes accompanied by circular
> gestures near the temple.
The list of reasons those settings can change includes software glitches,
power spikes, power dips, and (in theory) cosmic ray particles passing
through your CPU at the wrong moment. While you might have changed it, it is
entirely possible that you had nothing to do with it, and even if you did,
it might have been in such an oblique way that there is no reason you should
have known.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21372
From: Filksinger"
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 10:46:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Hi Everyone
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Dee" <ke4lfgDELETETHIS@amsat.org> wrote in message
news:3d24da3e.0@news.sff.net...
<snip>
> > What is listed in the installed network components in Control
> Panel>Network?
>
> Nothing described exactly that way. Under the configuration tab are:
> Client for Microsoft Networks
> Dial-Up Adapter
> Dial-Up Adapter #2 (VPN Support)
> LNE 100 TX Fast Ethernet Adapter Version 1.0
> Microsoft Virtual Private Networking Adapter
> NDISWAN -> Microsoft Virtual PRivate Networking Adapter
> TCPIP -> Dial-Up Adapter
> TCPIP -> Dial-Up Adapter #2 (VPN Support)
> TCPIP -> LNE 100 TX Fast Ethernet Adapter Version 1.0
> Is that what you mean?
Perfect.
> > Also, when, exactly, does it give this error? Does it connect, then get
> this
> > error, or fail to connect?
>
> It doen't give me an actual error message, Filk, but this is what
> happens: When I connect to my ISP, no problem. Everything on automatic,
as
> I wanted. (And I forgot to say thanks to bytor for solving that problem.
> Thanks bytor!) I have it set for automatic commection, but not automatic
> disconnection. Then when I click to read mail (or if I connect to OW
> directly, instead of launching Internet Explorer first) it connects, then
> when it is "authorizing" there is a little dialogue box for entering
> username and password that comes up. Username is filled in, but password
is
> blank, no matter how many times I put in my password and check "remember
> password." It did not used to work this way--it used to do it all
> automatically. It is not a big deal, either way, but I don't know why it
> changed.
OK. Go to OE, then go to Tools, then Accounts, then the Mail tab. Find your
email address that has problems and double-click on it. Check the tab that
says "Connection". Nothing should be checked. If it is checked, uncheck it.
That should do it.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21373
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 19:34:41 GMT
Subject: More Reviews
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Added is David Silver's epiphany-making discussion of "I Will Fear
No Evil"
How are the rest coming? Email me copies when you're ready with them
at debrule@dahoudek.com . I prefer a copy with formatting (a Word doc,
rtf, etc. With text, such as is posted here, I can't see where you put
italics and such).
http://www.dahoudek.com/heinlein/index.html
Deb (D.A. Houdek)
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21374
From: Robert Slater"
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 21:18:07 -0700
Subject: Re: An HF tradition continues.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Thanks, JP.
And I listened to Blue Rodeo and Great Big Sea on Canaada day. Oops an
extra "a" on there. VBG. First Canada day in three years we haven't
accidentally been in Canada. Gonna lose our honored alien status!
SIFI Rob
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message news:3d2467f9.0@news.sff.net...
> Thanks from Seattle, as well. I wish I had more time to spend around here
> with you guys.
>
> Filksinger
------------------------------------------------------------
============================================================
Archive of: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Archive desc: The Internet home for the Heinlein Forum
Archived by: webnews@sff.net
Archive date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 01:18:28
First article in this archive: 21282
Last article in this archive: 21374
Oldest article in this archive: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 01:19:44 GMT
Newest article in this archive: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 01:32:44 -0400