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Archive of:   sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Archive desc: The Internet home for the Heinlein Forum
Archived by:  webnews@sff.net
Archive date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 06:09:16
============================================================

Article 21835
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 14 Oct 2002 20:22:50 GMT
Subject: Re: Lost Website/and another
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

The Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie site:

http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html

Filksinger

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21836
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 14 Oct 2002 21:33:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Dread Plush Cthulhu
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

>>
FS:    Maybe the general anesthesia hasn't worked it's way out of my
system yet, But:  I missed something here.  (I may be of the wrong
SF generation or F&SF genre to comprehend.)  Please enlighten, so
that I may share in this.
>>

It is fairly simple. The plush Cthulhu is a plush stuffed animal version
of Cthulhu, the most famous creation of H. P. Lovecraft. Both Lovecraft
and Cthulhu were mentioned in NotB (Specifically, when Zeb asked if anyone
else was a fan of H. P. Lovecraft and they said no, he said, "Thank Cthulhu!").

H. P. Lovecraft's tales of eldritch horror were based upon the idea that
there are not only things Man Was Not Meant To Know, but that the foundation
of the entire universe was such that to know too much was to go mad. Both
of Lovecraft's parents died in asylums, and it shows.

His creation, Cthulhu, was worshipped by "debased" people around the world
(debased often meaning half-breeds, I'm afraid), and described as either
"dead" or "dreaming", and would rise again when "the stars are right" and
plunge the world into chaos and madness.

Filksinger

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21837
From: Bob Lawson 
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:03:47 -0700
Subject: Re: Dread Plush Cthulhu
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

filksinger@earthling.net wrote:
> All who live will die in chaos and madness! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
> 
> http://www.logicalcreativity.com/jon/plush/01.html
Is Call of Cthulu in the public domain? I went looking for it online but 
found it nowhere.
Bob


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21838
From: David M. Silver" 
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:38:12 -0700
Subject: Re: Dread Plush Cthulhu
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Ed Johnson wrote:

[snip]
> 
> Ed J (on the road to recovery) 
> 

The last five words are the ones I prefer to hear from you. :)

Carpe diem!


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21839
From: Dee" 
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:21:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Dread Plush Cthulhu
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"David M. Silver" <ag.plusone@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3DAB4754.2000903@verizon.net...
> > Ed J (on the road to recovery)
> The last five words are the ones I prefer to hear from you. :)

Amen.

> Carpe diem!

Amen.



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21840
From: Randalt" 
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:49:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Dread Plush Cthulhu
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Oh dear, the Conthulhu convention is coming up next weekend here in Toronto,
too... I wasn't sure what kind of people were showing up for it- colour me
"debased," I guess...
  =8^)
http://www.primedia.ca/conthulhu/

-Randalt

<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message news:3dab3814.0@news.sff.net...
> >>
> FS:    Maybe the general anesthesia hasn't worked it's way out of my
> system yet, But:  I missed something here.  (I may be of the wrong
> SF generation or F&SF genre to comprehend.)  Please enlighten, so
> that I may share in this.
> >>
>
> It is fairly simple. The plush Cthulhu is a plush stuffed animal version
> of Cthulhu, the most famous creation of H. P. Lovecraft. Both Lovecraft
> and Cthulhu were mentioned in NotB (Specifically, when Zeb asked if anyone
> else was a fan of H. P. Lovecraft and they said no, he said, "Thank
Cthulhu!").
>
> H. P. Lovecraft's tales of eldritch horror were based upon the idea that
> there are not only things Man Was Not Meant To Know, but that the
foundation
> of the entire universe was such that to know too much was to go mad. Both
> of Lovecraft's parents died in asylums, and it shows.
>
> His creation, Cthulhu, was worshipped by "debased" people around the world
> (debased often meaning half-breeds, I'm afraid), and described as either
> "dead" or "dreaming", and would rise again when "the stars are right" and
> plunge the world into chaos and madness.
>
> Filksinger
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21841
From: Randalt" 
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:01:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Dread Plush Cthulhu
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Apparently any Lovecraft story published prior to 1922 is public domain, as
according to this web page:
http://www.gizmology.net/lovecraft/copyrights.htm
After 1922 it gets tangled up in copyright law and whether August Derleth or
Lovecraft's heirs renewed the copyright.  Apparently nobody did, so it's all
public domain now.
Look at the "works" link at http://www.gizmology.net/lovecraft/ for
transcriptions of his works in html and/or .pdf.

-Randalt

> > http://www.logicalcreativity.com/jon/plush/01.html
> Is Call of Cthulu in the public domain? I went looking for it online but
> found it nowhere.
> Bob
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21842
From: Randalt" 
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:26:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Dread Plush Cthulhu
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

_However,_ the people at http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/fiction/cc.htm
say: "Please note that Lovecraft's fiction is still considered to be under
copyright by Arkham House, and any texts presently available on the web
without their consent are in violation of that copyright."  So who are you
going to believe?  I'm going to ask the experts at Conthulhu next weekend.

-Randalt

"Randalt" <randalt@sff.net> wrote in message news:3dab7717.0@news.sff.net...
> Apparently any Lovecraft story published prior to 1922 is public domain,
as
> according to this web page:
> http://www.gizmology.net/lovecraft/copyrights.htm
> After 1922 it gets tangled up in copyright law and whether August Derleth
or
> Lovecraft's heirs renewed the copyright.  Apparently nobody did, so it's
all
> public domain now.
> Look at the "works" link at http://www.gizmology.net/lovecraft/ for
> transcriptions of his works in html and/or .pdf.
>
> -Randalt



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21843
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:22:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Dread Plush Cthulhu
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

      Oh!

I've heard of Lovecraft, but I am not at all familiar with his
works.

thanks for the synopsis.

Ed J




On 14 Oct 2002 21:33:08 GMT, filksinger@earthling.net wrote:

>>>
>FS:    Maybe the general anesthesia hasn't worked it's way out of my
>system yet, But:  I missed something here.  (I may be of the wrong
>SF generation or F&SF genre to comprehend.)  Please enlighten, so
>that I may share in this.
>>>
>
>It is fairly simple. The plush Cthulhu is a plush stuffed animal version
>of Cthulhu, the most famous creation of H. P. Lovecraft. Both Lovecraft
>and Cthulhu were mentioned in NotB (Specifically, when Zeb asked if anyone
>else was a fan of H. P. Lovecraft and they said no, he said, "Thank Cthulhu!").
>
>H. P. Lovecraft's tales of eldritch horror were based upon the idea that
>there are not only things Man Was Not Meant To Know, but that the foundation
>of the entire universe was such that to know too much was to go mad. Both
>of Lovecraft's parents died in asylums, and it shows.
>
>His creation, Cthulhu, was worshipped by "debased" people around the world
>(debased often meaning half-breeds, I'm afraid), and described as either
>"dead" or "dreaming", and would rise again when "the stars are right" and
>plunge the world into chaos and madness.
>
>Filksinger


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21844
From: Michael P. Calligaro" 
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:56:46 -0700
Subject: Re: Dread Plush Cthulhu
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Also the basis for a few KILLER Metallica songs.

bytor

<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message news:3dab3814.0@news.sff.net...
> H. P. Lovecraft's tales of eldritch horror were based upon the idea that
> there are not only things Man Was Not Meant To Know, but that the
foundation
> of the entire universe was such that to know too much was to go mad. Both
> of Lovecraft's parents died in asylums, and it shows.




------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21845
From: Gordon G. Sollars 
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:32:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Dread Plush Cthulhu
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

In article <3dab7cdf.0@news.sff.net>, Randalt writes...
> _However,_ the people at http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/fiction/cc.htm
> say: "Please note that Lovecraft's fiction is still considered to be under
> copyright by Arkham House, and any texts presently available on the web
> without their consent are in violation of that copyright."  So who are you
> going to believe?  I'm going to ask the experts at Conthulhu next weekend.

I would say that you will conthult with them.

-- 
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21846
From: postmaster@sff.net
Date: 8 Oct 2002 12:09:17 GMT
Subject: No articles presently in newsgroup.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

This newsgroup has no articles yet; however, if
you were to post something, it would.

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21847
From: webnews@sff.net
Date: 15 Oct 2002 05:59:02 GMT
Subject: SpamGuard
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

One or more articles in this newsgroup have been cancelled by the sysops
for being spammed across multiple newsgroups, being commercial adverts,
or for violating SFF Net's Policies and Procedures.

To avoid seeing this notice in the future, set your newsreader to filter
out articles with SpamGuard in the subject.

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21848
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 15 Oct 2002 14:16:22 GMT
Subject: Copyright and the Supremes
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

As I understand it (and I could be mixing it up with something else), despite
the government readily winning its first few cases in Federal court on the
Digital Millenium Copyright Act, the Supremes called for the case to be
called before them. This is the blog of one of the primary lawyers arguing
the case for the DMCA being unconstitutuional, about how he thought the
argument went.

http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/lessig/blog/archives/2002_10.shtml#000531

Filksinger

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21849
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 15 Oct 2002 15:21:56 GMT
Subject: MP3 patents and Ogg Vorbis
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

As some of you may know, the MP3 format, though widely available for compressing
music, is actually a proprietary format under patent, and many MP3 encoders
have been taken off the freeware/shareware lists because they violate this
patent.

For an MP3 equivallent that is truely open-source, Ogg Vorbis is not only
very good, but has finally reached version 1.0.

http://www.vorbis.com

Filksinger

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21850
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 15 Oct 2002 19:53:59 GMT
Subject: ST Details
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On another mailing list, someone wanted information about RAH's Bug warriors.
In particular, the physical details. Weaponry would also be good, but whether
or not they used body armor, how tough they were without it, etc. I don't
have my book, and, while I _think_ I remember the details pretty well, I'd
like something from someone who is either sure, or who has the book available
at this time.

Thanks for the help!

Filksinger

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21851
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:56:46 -0400
Subject: Re: ST Details
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

FS:    Shooting strictly from the hip:  I'd say armed but unarmored.
(I'm too lazy to thumb through the book.  H'mmn,  do we need to add
pertinent Heinlein info to a database or spreadsheet for easy cross
reference?  I'll leave it to the true propellor-heads to ponder how
we would go about this.
    If someone did set up such a thing, we would need to humbly
beseech Mr. Gifford to referee such an undertaking.)

Ed J

On 15 Oct 2002 19:53:59 GMT, filksinger@earthling.net wrote:

>On another mailing list, someone wanted information about RAH's Bug warriors.
>In particular, the physical details. Weaponry would also be good, but whether
>or not they used body armor, how tough they were without it, etc. I don't
>have my book, and, while I _think_ I remember the details pretty well, I'd
>like something from someone who is either sure, or who has the book available
>at this time.
>
>Thanks for the help!
>
>Filksinger


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21852
From: Voxwoman 
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:22:44 -0400
Subject: Re: ST Details
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

I'm also feeling lazy (and the A-H wargame is sitting on a shelf 3 feet 
over my head) the Bugs I don't think used body armor, but they were 
telepathic in some sense. The skinnys used armor of some sort, because 
they were humanoid, not arachnids.

If they were developing a game, they would do well to look at what 
Avalon-Hill did. The arachnids kicked ass in the first several "rounds".

Oh, OK... I'm not going to look thru the book, but I will get the game 
down and check...
in the game, the arachnids had heavy beam weapons, High energy 
explosives, and nukes. The skinnys had beam weapons and missile weapons.

Man. that game is in near mint condition. I only could convince my 
brother to play once, and we just started to learn the rules. (it has a 
7 scenario "learning curve", where different elements of play are 
introduced. Once you learn them all, you re-play all the scenarios, 
which are based on the novel, BTW, with *all* the rules - like 3-d 
hives, etc.) I don't hang out with gamers, and I never get the 
opportunity to learn it, much less play it. Sigh. And I've got too much 
to do at cons spending it in the gaming room. :(
-Wendy of nJ

Ed Johnson wrote:

> FS:    Shooting strictly from the hip:  I'd say armed but unarmored.
> (I'm too lazy to thumb through the book.  H'mmn,  do we need to add
> pertinent Heinlein info to a database or spreadsheet for easy cross
> reference?  I'll leave it to the true propellor-heads to ponder how
> we would go about this.
>     If someone did set up such a thing, we would need to humbly
> beseech Mr. Gifford to referee such an undertaking.)
> 
> Ed J
> 
> On 15 Oct 2002 19:53:59 GMT, filksinger@earthling.net wrote:
> 
> 
>>On another mailing list, someone wanted information about RAH's Bug warriors.
>>In particular, the physical details. Weaponry would also be good, but whether
>>or not they used body armor, how tough they were without it, etc. I don't
>>have my book, and, while I _think_ I remember the details pretty well, I'd
>>like something from someone who is either sure, or who has the book available
>>at this time.
>>
>>Thanks for the help!
>>
>>Filksinger
>>
> 


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21853
From: William J. Keaton" 
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:05:46 -0400
Subject: Re: ST Details
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"Voxwoman" <voxwoman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> If they were developing a game, they would do well to look at what
> Avalon-Hill did. The arachnids kicked ass in the first several "rounds".
>
>
> Man. that game is in near mint condition.

I still have a copy of the Avalon Hill Starship Troopers game, with the
pieces unpunched.

WJaKe



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21854
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 16 Oct 2002 05:08:57 GMT
Subject: Strangely Inappropriate?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

At work, we have a number of in-house mailing lists, on everything from
Buffy the Vampire Slayer to the Triangles list, which is for the gay, bi,
lesbian, and friends thereof, one of whom (the last category), is me.

One of the other members of the list, Justin, is in the first category.
He is about to move into a new house in Davenport, and, when he tried to
look up his new address in Davenport, GA, at http://maps.yahoo.com, accidentally
got 1500 Clay St., Davenport, IA. He found it funny, and sent out the map.

Try it, at maximum zoom, and check out the nearest streets.

Filksinger

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21855
Article no longer available
------------------------------------------------------------

Article 21856
From: postmaster@sff.net
Date: 8 Oct 2002 12:09:17 GMT
Subject: No articles presently in newsgroup.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

This newsgroup has no articles yet; however, if
you were to post something, it would.

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21857
From: Voxwoman 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:34:40 -0400
Subject: Re: ST Details
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum



William J. Keaton wrote:

> "Voxwoman" <voxwoman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> 
>>If they were developing a game, they would do well to look at what
>>Avalon-Hill did. The arachnids kicked ass in the first several "rounds".
>>
>>
>>Man. that game is in near mint condition.
>>
> 
> I still have a copy of the Avalon Hill Starship Troopers game, with the
> pieces unpunched.
> 
> WJaKe
> 

So how do we play over the 'net? (we only punched out the pieces needed 
for scenario 1 and 2) <G>
-Wendy


> 
> 


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21858
From: Eli Hestermann 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:21:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Strangely Inappropriate?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Direct link (which will wrap):
http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=1500+Clay+St&city=Davenport&state=IA&csz=Davenport,+IA+52804-4045&slt=41.530625&sln=-90.596595&zip=52804-4045&country=us&BFKey=&BFCat=&BFClient=&cs=9&name=&desc=&poititle=&poi=&ds=n&mag=9&newmag=10

SNARF!

Never would've suspected names like that in the Quad Cities.

--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa."  -Seneca



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21859
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 16 Oct 2002 14:41:46 GMT
Subject: Re: Strangely Inappropriate?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

You can see why he almost suspected a practical joke, at first. Since we
work at an ISP, it is just barely possible that a friend of his knew enough
to actually fake that page and slip it in when he tried that lookup.:)

Filksinger

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21860
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 16 Oct 2002 15:56:30 GMT
Subject: Path to Riches?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Here's a little puzzle for you folks. Good luck!

A man whom you have seen, on TV if nothing else, tells you, "Microsoft stock
is selling for $50 a share on the open market. I know how you can buy as
much as you want for $100 a share. If I were to sell everything I own, take
all the money and buy as much stock as I could at $100 a share, and sell
it at the market value, shortly, I would be a millionare."

You think about this strange statement, then realize it is true. How is
this possible?

-- 
Filksinger
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21861
From: Voxwoman 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:16:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Path to Riches?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

filksinger@earthling.net wrote:

> Here's a little puzzle for you folks. Good luck!
> 
> A man whom you have seen, on TV if nothing else, tells you, "Microsoft stock
> is selling for $50 a share on the open market. I know how you can buy as
> much as you want for $100 a share. If I were to sell everything I own, take
> all the money and buy as much stock as I could at $100 a share, and sell
> it at the market value, shortly, I would be a millionare."
> 
> You think about this strange statement, then realize it is true. How is
> this possible?
> 


Um, his total net worth is 2 million dollars?


> 


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21862
From: Eli Hestermann 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:04:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Path to Riches?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Voxwoman wrote:

> Um, his total net worth is 2 million dollars?

My answer as well.

Reminds me of the old adage:
Q. How do you make a small fortune in the wine business?
A. Start with a large fortune and buy a vineyard.
--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa."  -Seneca



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21863
From: Gordon Sollars" 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:10:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Path to Riches?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message news:3dad8c2e.0@news.sff.net...
> Here's a little puzzle for you folks. Good luck!
>
> A man whom you have seen, on TV if nothing else, tells you, "Microsoft
stock
> is selling for $50 a share on the open market. I know how you can buy as
> much as you want for $100 a share. If I were to sell everything I own,
take
> all the money and buy as much stock as I could at $100 a share, and sell
> it at the market value, shortly, I would be a millionare."
>
> You think about this strange statement, then realize it is true. How is
> this possible?
>
> --
> Filksinger
> Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined



The man is Bill Gates.  But if he sold everything he owned, it is doubtful
that the market price of Microsoft would still be $50/share.  ;-)



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21864
From: James Hunt 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:49:46 -0500
Subject: Survivor
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Dear Ed,
    Your case sounds very much like my own.  Last month I became a "ten
year survivor."  My wife, Janis had already lost her father to prostate
cancer.  So, we understood the importance of regular tests.
    A PSA test showed raised levels and my doctor ran additional tests.
Everything showed negative until an actual biopsy was run on the
prostate.   It was positive.  My doctor offered me several options
starting with doing nothing and ending with removal.
    From this point on, my case proceeded much as yours has.  The PSA
tests soon dropped to undetectable levels, and I was free to get on with

my life.  True, I had the added expense of Depend underwear, but I'm
thankful that I'm here to spend the money.
So, here's to you Ed.  Hope you do at least as well as I have.

GemStone   (James S. Hunt)




------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21865
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:52:40 GMT
Subject: Re: Strangely Inappropriate?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On 16 Oct 2002 14:41:46 GMT, filksinger@earthling.net wrote:

>You can see why he almost suspected a practical joke, at first. Since we
>work at an ISP, it is just barely possible that a friend of his knew enough
>to actually fake that page and slip it in when he tried that lookup.:)
>
>Filksinger

OK, either I'm really dense or something's been changed...most of the
streets around it are unlabelled.  

JT

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21866
From: SpaceCadet 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 20:51:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Strangely Inappropriate?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

JT,

Try 
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?map.x=315&map.y=5&mapdata=WzSMcMOP0GDMH7lYoTuWgF7B2HTxV1yoifjDynw7qAtzV06ySEYhBpI6SewxCYkAC2O2rurQmgX8zj4GeJcsKGEDxvZe0JEfKQZ0VwcazO2J9Bu%252fRh2vHBo6707KwGhLNk0rDRSvM3ijQdedAehnpaLcdu4kt9Gcio4VErwhnx5s4h4Z%252bPbru6g3XOHmhdcBJm5tncfCpVG6JZLh2HvNSrZY3LH6Bmpwu5PuMM1vFtV6T2gJlKq47cxN%252fhH1aw3ykZzmUS3sf8yRWzpPu3eo26V%252fefKG0BpsnfxI82Q6ywMVT%252fREUIAm7ubVk4qgl4q3JmSgwquJY1UVLos%252f1F540t9Hb5n6E0DPCgfiCy60Qhk%253d&click=center

Carol
========

JT wrote:

> 
> OK, either I'm really dense or something's been changed...most of the
> streets around it are unlabelled.  
> 
> JT


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21867
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:15:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Path to Riches?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

More likely 50 cents a share <g>.

Ed J

>The man is Bill Gates.  But if he sold everything he owned, it is doubtful
>that the market price of Microsoft would still be $50/share.  ;-)
>


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21868
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:24:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Survivor
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Gemstone:   It is good to hear from you. Thanks for the
encouragement and thank God that you are now a "ten year survivor" .
Keep up with your treadmill work and hopefully we will see many more
years of you on the Heinlein Forum  :-)
      I had all those options and chose the most radical as it
offered the greatest long term survival possibilities for me.
   In my case the damned PSA test lied and said that I was just
fine.  A biopsy of the suspicious lump revealed the cancer.
   I am exercising each day and I am hopeful for the future.

Thanks for you best wishes.

Ed J

On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:49:46 -0500, James Hunt
<jhunt1@cox-internet.com> wrote:

>Dear Ed,
>    Your case sounds very much like my own.  Last month I became a "ten
>year survivor."  My wife, Janis had already lost her father to prostate
>cancer.  So, we understood the importance of regular tests.
>    A PSA test showed raised levels and my doctor ran additional tests.
>Everything showed negative until an actual biopsy was run on the
>prostate.   It was positive.  My doctor offered me several options
>starting with doing nothing and ending with removal.
>    From this point on, my case proceeded much as yours has.  The PSA
>tests soon dropped to undetectable levels, and I was free to get on with
>
>my life.  True, I had the added expense of Depend underwear, but I'm
>thankful that I'm here to spend the money.
>So, here's to you Ed.  Hope you do at least as well as I have.
>
>GemStone   (James S. Hunt)
>
>


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21869
From: Dee" 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:28:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Strangely Inappropriate?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

"JT" <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in message
news:3dae069b.169614765@news.sff.net...
> OK, either I'm really dense or something's been changed...most of the
> streets around it are unlabelled.

JT--
    Zoom in.
--Dee



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21870
From: Michael P. Calligaro" 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:00:01 -0700
Subject: Re: Path to Riches?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

You've just described a significant percentage of Microsoft employees.
Noone's options are vested at 100, there's a heck of a lot of them in the
80s.

bytor

<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message news:3dad8c2e.0@news.sff.net...
> Here's a little puzzle for you folks. Good luck!





------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21871
From: Bob Lawson 
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:14:41 -0700
Subject: Re: Strangely Inappropriate?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

JT wrote:
> On 16 Oct 2002 14:41:46 GMT, filksinger@earthling.net wrote:
> 
> 
>>You can see why he almost suspected a practical joke, at first. Since we
>>work at an ISP, it is just barely possible that a friend of his knew enough
>>to actually fake that page and slip it in when he tried that lookup.:)
>>
>>Filksinger
> 
> 
> OK, either I'm really dense or something's been changed...most of the
> streets around it are unlabelled.  
> 
> JT
As of 12:13 AM on the morning of 10/17/02, the street names of note 
appear to have been removed (at least, they're not in the same place as 
they were yesterday)
Bob


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21872
From: Eli Hestermann 
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:49:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Survivor
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

That's great news, Gemstone!

--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa."  -Seneca



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21873
From: Eli Hestermann 
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:52:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Strangely Inappropriate?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Bob's right, the two street names which many homosexuals would find
offensive have been removed.

I wonder if this was a prank by someone at Mapquest.

--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa."  -Seneca



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21874
From: Dee" 
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:40:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Strangely Inappropriate?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"Bob Lawson" <rclawson@removethiscalpoly.edu> wrote in message
news:3dae6361.0@news.sff.net...
> As of 12:13 AM on the morning of 10/17/02, the street names of note
> appear to have been removed (at least, they're not in the same place as
> they were yesterday)

Weird.



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21875
From: Gordon G. Sollars 
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:51:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Path to Riches?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

In article <3dae43d1.0@news.sff.net>, Michael P. Calligaro writes...
> You've just described a significant percentage of Microsoft employees.
> Noone's options are vested at 100, there's a heck of a lot of them in the
> 80s.

But most of them have not been seen "at least on TV" by most of us.

-- 
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21876
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:35:38 GMT
Subject: Re: Strangely Inappropriate?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 20:51:47 -0500, SpaceCadet
<cadozo@planet-save.com> wrote:

>JT,
>
>Try 
>http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?map.x=315&map.y=5&mapdata=WzSMcMOP0GDMH7lYoTuWgF7B2HTxV1yoifjDynw7qAtzV06ySEYhBpI6SewxCYkAC2O2rurQmgX8zj4GeJcsKGEDxvZe0JEfKQZ0VwcazO2J9Bu%252fRh2vHBo6707KwGhLNk0rDRSvM3ijQdedAehnpaLcdu4kt9Gcio4VErwhnx5s4h4Z%252bPbru6g3XOHmhdcBJm5tncfCpVG6JZLh2HvNSrZY3LH6Bmpwu5PuMM1vFtV6T2gJlKq47cxN%252fhH1aw3ykZzmUS3sf8yRWzpPu3eo26V%252fefKG0BpsnfxI82Q6ywMVT%252fREUIAm7ubVk4qgl4q3JmSgwquJY1UVLos%252f1F540t9Hb5n6E0DPCgfiCy60Qhk%253d&click=center
>
>Carol
>========
>
Ah. Well, that shows one streetname that is obvious, anyway.  I guess
maps.yahoo.com must be a different database from mapquest somehow.
even at the closest zoom yahoo didn't show that.... strange.

Thanks for indulging me.  Very weird.  And a juvenile prank, most
likely.

JT

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21877
From: Robert Slater" 
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:05:42 -0700
Subject: Heinlein Comic
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Hey Folks, Check this out found it while doing a master's degree assn.
http://geekculture.com/geekycomics/Aftery2k/y2Karchives/376-42.html
SIFI Rob



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21878
From: Gordon G. Sollars 
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:37:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Out of Control?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

In article <3da05ca1.15187860@news.sff.net>, Jai Johnson-Pickett 
writes...
> On Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:54:30 -0400, "Gordon Sollars"
....
> >The U.S. military is not the same as the U.S government.
> 
> Ummm..., yes it is.

Ummm..., not unless a finger is the same as the hand it is on.
 
> > Hopefully, the
> >U.S. military is well trained and prepared to do many things that it will
> >never be called on to do.
> 
> True, but I think you have a different conception of what it means
> when the US military plans and trains for an operation.

I think I do, and I think that you have a conception that identifies 
military policy with a government's foreign policy.  As I noted before, 
it is simple prudence for the U.S. military to be prepared to do things 
that no President expects to do, or even has a policy against doing.
....
> If the military is training for a
> pre-emptive strike, it very well is an official part of US policy.

The training is; the strike is not - or else why did we go through the 
motions of Congress approving Bush's recent request?
....
> >I am willing to take "preemptive" somewhat broadly so as
> >not to be unfair regarding the burden of proof.
> 
> Actually, a little research reminds me that the US military actually
> began intervening overseas before the Phillipines. Hawaii while it
> was still an independent kingdom, sort of.  Samoa.  Maybe even Cuba
> (the Spanish-American War), if you consider that the administration
> probably knew that Spain did not sink the Maine.  But maybe that's
> merely modern hind-sight, or not even correct.

My claim was not about military intervention, but about a preemptive 
strike.  AFAIK, the term refers to an action specifically taken against a 
would-be aggressor in order to /preempt/ his attack.  The Philippines was 
not about to attack the U.S.  It simply resisted control passing to the 
U.S. from Spain, and McKinley very much wanted to have it.
 
> But in 1914, we stationed warships in the Mexican ports Tampico and
> Vera Cruz, and then occupied Vera Cruz with Marines because we opposed
> the faction that had taken over during the Mexican Revolution/Civil
> War.  We didn't leave until that faction resigned.  Actually, not that
> far removed from the situation in Iraq today.

Same story, unless that faction was going to attack the U.S.  Most of 
what you are giving are examples of the U.S. endorsing the first use of 
military force to achieve an objective.  The driving force behind any 
current action against Iraq is not simply that we oppose the faction in 
control, but that there is supposed to be evidence that that faction 
/will/ attack the U.S. unless that possibility is /preempted/.
 
> We also invaded Mexico two years later because Pancho Villa was
> raiding accross the border and the Mexican govt could not or would not
> stop them.  Granted the action was not unprovoked, but Villa's
> "banditos" were not formally agents of the Mexican govt, and it was a
> violation of Mexican soverignty.  Not something Americans worried
> about much back then.

Same story.

> We entered WWI ostensibly because the Germans sank a British passenger
> ship, thus threatening the safety of US shipping and access to the sea
> lanes.  The Brits were not our allies at the time and there was never
> a direct German attack on the US, but a fear that there might be, and
> an unwillingness to accept that a hostile foreign power should posess
> such a capability.  Another fairly good analogy to Iraq, imho.

Now you might possibly have something.
 
> One could argue, altho it's a weak argument I'll grant you, that our
> entire involvement in VietNam was "pre-emptive" as no NVA regular
> forces had attacked the South, iirc, when Eisenhower sent the first
> military in in 1954 or Kennedy the first uniformed forces in the
> 1960s.  Granted, NVA was involved in the fall of Dien Bien Phu, but
> that was against the French.

Did U.S. military forces fire the first shot?  Again, strengthening an 
ally is not the same as a "preempt".
 
> We employed a naval blockade (an act of war by international law) to
> prevent the deployment of Soviet missiles in Cuba.  Those missiles had
> not been used against us.  The Soviets had never attacked us.  We were
> trying to stop them from having that capability.  Preemptively.

That's maybe two for you.
 
> We intervened militarily in the Dominican Civil War in 1965 to prevent
> a Cuba-like regime from coming to power in that country.

Nope.
 
> Panama, which Eli mentioned, is another good example.  The Noriega
> govt had not attacked our forces in the Canal Zone, and the Canal was
> due to revert to Panamanian control anyway.  Or maybe it already
> had--I forget.

Going into Panama to "get" Noriega (for whatever stupid reason) is, 
again, not a "preemptive attack".
 
> Haiti fits too.

Haiti's massive military was set to attack the U.S.?
 
> I'm not arguing that all of these military actions were good ideas, or
> legal, or even conducted with the approval of the American people.
> Only that our "tradition" does not preclude the use of preemptive
> military force.

I would argue that they were all bad ideas or the consequences of bad 
ideas, i.e., previous interventionism (such as U.S. missiles in Turkey in 
the case of Cuba).  However, your examples do show is that the U.S. has 
not been shy about the first use of force to achieve its objectives.  
Arguably, we have the "tradition" against preemptive strikes that I spoke 
of only because few countries have been in a position to attack the U.S., 
i.e., it's a "tradition" only by default.

I notice that there is no talk of a preemptive strike against North Korea 
now that the presence of uranium enrichment capability has been admitted 
by them.  Perhaps this is only because NK would prefer not to use nuclear 
weapons against the U.S., while Hussein is supposed to be eager to do so.  
If he is, I wonder if that eagerness might possibly stem from any actions 
taken - /or about to be taken/ - by the U.S. government?  If so, perhaps 
we could take such actions with regard to NK, and then, since they might 
want to attack us as a result, we could claim that we must preemptively 
attack them as well.

If we are clever enough, we might be able to create situations in which 
we could "preemptively" attack every evil doer in the world.  But part of 
my argument is that the State Department is not that clever, so I 
probably shouldn't worry.
....
> >I would not call reserving the right to use a particular weapon "preemptive"
> >if it would be used only after an initial attack.  
> 
> But US "first use" policy is NOT reserved for use after an initial
> attack.  That was my point--and the basis of MAD.  Hit us anywhere,
> with conventional forces, or threaten us too closely with nuclear
> ones, and we claimed the right to strike preemptively.

"Hit us anywhere" and our /reply/ would not be preemptive.  Perhaps we 
are not speaking the same language? 

> >Thus, the use of atomic
> >weapons against Japan - quite literally the real "first use" - was not
> >preemptive.
> 
> No, that case was not.  I only argue that official US policy, after
> WWII, included a preemptive option.

It included the first use of nuclear weapons, not, AFAIK, a /preemptive 
attack/ with or with out nukes.  But you suggested I was wrong in that it 
was U.S. policy (not simply a planning scenario) to use nuclear weapons 
merely on the "close threat" of their use against us.  This is the best 
argument you have that there was no tradition against preempt, at least 
when nuclear weapons are the concern (as it supposedly is with Iraq).  
Could you please point to some documentation of this, ideally web-based?    
 
> >With regard to M.A.D., stability was achieved by each side
> >/threatening/ to use nuclear weapons, not by their actual use, first or
> >otherwise.
> 
> Not much point in threatening if the other side does not believe that
> you will do it.  We never had to, but it was always our policy.  No
> way to know whether we would have or not.

When you /actually/ nuke to prevent the other side from nuking, /that/ is 
a preempt.  It is also, of course, a "first use".  But not all first use 
is preemptive. 

-- 
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21879
From: Eli Hestermann 
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:03:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Out of Control?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

"Gordon G. Sollars" wrote:

> > Panama, which Eli mentioned, is another good example.  The Noriega
> > govt had not attacked our forces in the Canal Zone, and the Canal was
> > due to revert to Panamanian control anyway.  Or maybe it already
> > had--I forget.
>
> Going into Panama to "get" Noriega (for whatever stupid reason) is,
> again, not a "preemptive attack".

Hmmm, this struck me as the closest parallel, because the concern was chiefly with
an individual, rather than a country.  My impression in this instance is that much
of the immediate threat would be removed if Hussein were not in power.

--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa."  -Seneca



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21880
From: Gordon G. Sollars 
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:13:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Out of Control?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

In article <3DB04CF1.60A0A1DA@dfci.harvard.edu>, Eli Hestermann writes...
> "Gordon G. Sollars" wrote:
....
> > Going into Panama to "get" Noriega (for whatever stupid reason) is,
> > again, not a "preemptive attack".
> 
> Hmmm, this struck me as the closest parallel, because the concern was chiefly with
> an individual, rather than a country.  My impression in this instance is that much
> of the immediate threat would be removed if Hussein were not in power.

I don't see the parallel.  Noriega was no threat to the U.S., except 
perhaps in the sense that - as a CIA informant - he might have 
embarrassed Bush the First.  I hope that we are not invading Iraq to 
prevent a U.S. President from being embarrassed.  Further, the rationale 
for capturing Noriega was not that he was planning to use, directly or 
indirectly, WMD against the U.S.  Yet this is /the/ argument for 
attacking Iraq that Bush II has given, in order to mobilize the support 
of the voters.

-- 
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21881
From: Charles Graft 
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:10:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Survivor
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Ed--
     Good words to hear. (Got it all.)  Can I clam the record here?  I
am 18 year (colon) cancer survivor.  And I am at the age my mother died
of (kidney) cancer.  Survival is good.

--
<<Big Charlie>>

"Democracy is a form of worship.  It is the worship of jackals by
jackasses." --  H. L. Menken



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21882
From: noone" 
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 01:08:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Lost Website/and another
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

thanks filksinger, that was the one. but they don't mention the propellor
option.
"gunner"

<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message news:3dab279a.0@news.sff.net...
> The Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie site:
>
> http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html
>
> Filksinger
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21883
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 23:43:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Survivor
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Charlie:  I hope to emulate you and our other 'survivors' here once
I get a few 'anniversaries' under my belt.  Right now it is just
'one day at a time'.   My paternal grandmother died of cancer while
in her late 50's.  My dad died of prostate cancer at age 57.  I'm
third generation to be attacked by this evil. 
     
 Best Wishes for good health to all of our survivors.

Ed J

On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:10:30 -0500, Charles Graft
<chasgraft@aol.com> wrote:

>Ed--
>     Good words to hear. (Got it all.)  Can I clam the record here?  I
>am 18 year (colon) cancer survivor.  And I am at the age my mother died
>of (kidney) cancer.  Survival is good.


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21884
From: Robert Slater" 
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 21:33:40 -0700
Subject: A Sale from a Heinlein Forum Writer
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Hey Folks,

I’m happy to announce that I have resold my short-short story "In Formation"
to SBD Sf&F. It is at the following web location:
http://www.motordoc.net/sf&f/Science%20Fiction/in_formation.htm. If you
would like to read it I would greatly appreciate it. If you enjoy it, give
it a good rating and it may increase my pay and increase the odds that it
will also appear in a print anthology.

SIFI Rob aka Robert L. Slater



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21885
From: Bill Dauphin 
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 02:00:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Survivor
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On 10/19/02 11:43 PM, in article 2r84ru87a5qn61jsb027qnkj12bq8tafd5@4ax.com,
"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@comcast.spamthis.net> wrote:

> Best Wishes for good health to all of our survivors.
> 

Ed:

Sorry I haven't chimed in sooner with my own best wishes to you. The H#ll
you've been through makes my family's journey seem almost easy by
comparison.

Mara can't officially be called a "survivor" yet, but that's how I think of
her: She's finished all of her treatment now, and her post-chemo MRI was
clear (as they all have been since her surgery last Fall). This coming week
she goes for the rest of her scans (bone scan, CT, chest X-ray), and if
they're all clear, her Hickman line will be coming out soon. Before long
she'll be growing hair again (I've gotten so used to her "slick" look, I'm
not sure how well I'll adjust to seeing her with hair).

I don't know what your protocol is like from here on out, but have faith:
Whatever it is, you *can* get through it.

-Bill


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21886
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:24:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Survivor
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Bill:   To my 'ear' it sounds like you and Mara have been through
the gauntlet; thank God her treatment has had positive results.
      It can get pretty depressing watching someone lose the battle
to this evil.  It can truly tear your heart out.
  Best Wishes for continued success.  Tell Mara about Juan Rico's
'lady friend' from Starship Troopers with her shaved head.  Or not.
It is one thing to intentionally shave your head for whatever
reason, it is another to see Chemo-therapy knock the hair off of
your head.  My co-worker who had hair loss to chemo said her's was
nearly instantaneous; my wife lost her hair gradually over many
chemo sessions.

Ed J

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 02:00:02 -0400, Bill Dauphin
<dauphinb@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>Ed:
>
>Sorry I haven't chimed in sooner with my own best wishes to you. The H#ll
>you've been through makes my family's journey seem almost easy by
>comparison.
>
>Mara can't officially be called a "survivor" yet, but that's how I think of
>her: She's finished all of her treatment now, and her post-chemo MRI was
>clear (as they all have been since her surgery last Fall). This coming week
>she goes for the rest of her scans (bone scan, CT, chest X-ray), and if
>they're all clear, her Hickman line will be coming out soon. Before long
>she'll be growing hair again (I've gotten so used to her "slick" look, I'm
>not sure how well I'll adjust to seeing her with hair).
>
>I don't know what your protocol is like from here on out, but have faith:
>Whatever it is, you *can* get through it.
>
>-Bill


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21887
From: Geo Rule 
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:40:39 -0700
Subject: Re: A Sale from a Heinlein Forum Writer
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


You da man, Rob!  That's great.

Now, when is it I can expect your review/synopsis of FRIDAY for our
new website, www.robertaheinlein.org?  Hmmm?  I seem to recall you
being a FRIDAY fan. . .


On Sun, 20 Oct 2002 21:33:40 -0700, "Robert Slater"
<rslater215@attbi.com> wrote:

>Hey Folks,
>
>I’m happy to announce that I have resold my short-short story "In Formation"
>to SBD Sf&F. It is at the following web location:
>http://www.motordoc.net/sf&f/Science%20Fiction/in_formation.htm. If you
>would like to read it I would greatly appreciate it. If you enjoy it, give
>it a good rating and it may increase my pay and increase the odds that it
>will also appear in a print anthology.
>
>SIFI Rob aka Robert L. Slater
>


Geo Rule

http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
****
Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison, Jesse James & Friends,
Copperheads, the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21888
From: Geo Rule 
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:48:36 -0700
Subject: Re: A Sale from a Heinlein Forum Writer
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:40:39 -0700, Geo Rule
<georule@civilwarstlouis.com> wrote:

Duh.  www.robertaheinlein.com   So new I can't even remember the
name.<g>
>
>You da man, Rob!  That's great.
>
>Now, when is it I can expect your review/synopsis of FRIDAY for our
>new website, www.robertaheinlein.org?  Hmmm?  I seem to recall you
>being a FRIDAY fan. . .
>
>


Geo Rule

http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
****
Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison, Jesse James & Friends,
Copperheads, the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21889
From: SpaceCadet 
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:32:59 -0500
Subject: Good Jokes
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

I found some good physics jokes, including the following:

Two atoms bump into each other. One says 'I think I lost an 
electron!' The other asks, 'Are you sure?', to which the 
first replies, 'I'm positive.'

The jokes are at http://www.physlink.com/Fun/Jokes.cfm

Hope you like them as much as I did, Carol


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21890
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 22 Oct 2002 16:44:19 GMT
Subject: Re: Good Jokes
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Thanks for the jokes! I always liked jokes that were funny, but are incomprehensible
to normal people.

Even more, I like jokes that are mildy funny to most people, but really
funny to the "in crowd". For example (in-crowd= computer geeks):

Q: What do you call, "Pieces of seven! Wraaak! Pieces of seven!"

A: A parotty error.

Filksinger

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21891
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 22 Oct 2002 16:53:36 GMT
Subject: How old is the professor?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Here's a puzzle I thought some of you would like. Some might find it easy,
but others will find it a bit difficult.

************
Student Ages
 
You overhear a conversation between a professor and his teaching assistant.
They are talking about a course they are running with just three students.

Professor: The product of the ages of the students in our class is 2450
and the sum of their ages is twice your age. Can you tell me how old they
are?

Assistant: (After thinking for a little while) No. 

Professor: I'll let you in on a secret. I am older than all of them, and
now you can answer the question. 

Assistant: (Even though he does not know how old the professor is, he thinks
for a bit, smiles, and says) Yes I can.

Given that all of the ages involved are integers (whole numbers), how old
is the professor?

************
Filksinger

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21892
From: Eli Hestermann 
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:00:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Good Jokes
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Q. What's new?
A. C over lambda

It doesn't work so well in print.

--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa."  -Seneca



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21893
From: Ed Johnson 
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:14:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Good Jokes
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Carol:    Thanks for that site.  
(it also had good links\ads)
Ed J

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:32:59 -0500, SpaceCadet
<cadozo@planet-save.com> wrote:

>I found some good physics jokes, including the following:
>
>Two atoms bump into each other. One says 'I think I lost an 
>electron!' The other asks, 'Are you sure?', to which the 
>first replies, 'I'm positive.'
>
>The jokes are at http://www.physlink.com/Fun/Jokes.cfm
>
>Hope you like them as much as I did, Carol


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21894
From: Michael P. Calligaro" 
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 23:03:43 -0700
Subject: Re: How old is the professor?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Wow, this problem is a pain (cool though).

Solution below.  Don't read if you want to solve it on your own.


s

p

o

i

l

e

r

s

One last chance to not be spoiled....


The students are 5, 10, and 49, the assistant is 32, and the professor is
50.

Okay, you can try doing algebra on this, but you'll quickly bog down with
too many unknowns with not enough equations.  It's got to be solvable that
way, but it quickly got too messy for me, so I went about it a different
way.

2450 has 6 prime factors: 1, 2, 5, 5, 7, 7

There are only 19 unique groups of those factors where they're multiplied
together and have 3 terms  (generating this list was a royal pita)

1 + 2 + 1225 = 1228
1 + 10 + 245 = 256
1 + 14 + 175 = 190
1 + 50 + 49 = 100
1 + 70 + 35 = 106
1 + 98 + 25 = 124
1 + 5 + 490 = 496
1 + 7 + 350 = 358
2 + 5 + 245 = 252
2 + 25 + 49 = 76
2 + 35 + 35 = 72
2 + 175 + 7 = 184
5 + 5 + 98 = 108
5 + 10 + 49 = 64
5 + 35 + 14 = 54
5 + 70 + 7 = 82
7 + 7 + 50 = 64
7 + 14 + 25 = 46
7 + 35 + 10 = 52

Now, it's important that the assistant couldn't solve the problem at first.
Of course, it's also important to note that few humans could do the above
list in their head, especially after just "a little while."  But, Filksinger
never did say these people were human....  If we assume that the assistant
COULD generate that list in his head, though, the fact that he knows his own
age and couldn't answer the professor at first means that there had to be
some sort of ambiguity in the choices at that point.  For instance, if the
assistant had been 26, he'd have known right off the bat that the ages of
the students were 7, 35, and 10, because only one of the 19 groups above sum
to 2*26 = 52 (bottom row).

Since he didn't know, then he had to be 32.  Look at the numbers above and
you'll see that all of the sums are unique except for the two sets that sum
to 64.

So, the students are either 5, 10, and 49 or 7, 7, and 50.

Now, the professor adds in not one, but two new pieces of information.  And
both are crucial.  Not only is he older than all of the students, but he
told the assistant that this information is enough to solve the problem.
Consider, if the professor was 60, both sets of numbers would still work,
and the assistant couldn't solve the problem.  The only way for the
professor to be older than all students and have that information be enough
to solve the problem is for the Professor to be 50.  If he's 50, then he's
older than the 5, 10, 49 group, but not older than the 7, 7, 50 group,
making them invalid.

bytor

<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message news:3db58290.0@news.sff.net...
> Here's a puzzle I thought some of you would like. Some might find it easy,
> but others will find it a bit difficult.
>
> ************
> Student Ages
>
> You overhear a conversation between a professor and his teaching
assistant.
> They are talking about a course they are running with just three students.
>
> Professor: The product of the ages of the students in our class is 2450
> and the sum of their ages is twice your age. Can you tell me how old they
> are?
>
> Assistant: (After thinking for a little while) No.
>
> Professor: I'll let you in on a secret. I am older than all of them, and
> now you can answer the question.
>
> Assistant: (Even though he does not know how old the professor is, he
thinks
> for a bit, smiles, and says) Yes I can.
>
> Given that all of the ages involved are integers (whole numbers), how old
> is the professor?
>
> ************
> Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21895
From: Michael P. Calligaro" 
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 23:46:57 -0700
Subject: Teaser Vindication
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

I've now worked at my company for almost 9 years.  Way back when I was
interviewing, I had this really cool experience.  I rocked on all of the
interviewer's questions (we don't do those silly touchy feely interviews
here.  We give mind-crunching technical interviews, hire the people whose
brains hold up to the onslaught, and don't hire the people whose minds we
turn to mush).  After finishing a particularly hard one, I said, "What's
next?"  ("Who wants some?")  He shrugged and said, "Nothing, unless you want
to <insert technical gibberish here>."  I said, "Okay" and started to write
stuff on the board.  He stopped me and said, "Wait, it's a really hard brain
teaser that's a totally unfair interview question.  Think about it on your
flight home and email me the answer if you get it."  I said, "Oh, a brain
teaser, huh?  Well here's one for you then."  And I gave him a particularly
hard brain teaser that I'd worked on for a month or so and had only figured
out recently.  (I later found out that he put on his interview feedback that
my fearlessly firing a teaser back at him was a pretty good indication that
I'd fit in well there. :-)

So, that interview is over, and I move on to the next one, a lunch
interview.  Lunch interviews last an hour and a half, and when that one's
over, I'm brought to the next guy, who's in the office next to the one I
gave the brain teaser to.  The earlier interviewer stops me in the hall and
hands me a piece of paper with the perfect solution to the teaser,
diagrammed in a way that showed that he went about solving it in the ideal
manner.  Hour and a half max, and he probably ate lunch in there somewhere.
I remember thinking to myself, "Damn, I want to work with this guy."

Over the years, he and I have found/traded/etc hundreds of brain teasers.
I've figured out every last one of them, but in each and every case, he's
figured it out faster than I have, or came up with an answer that was in
some way better than mine (more general, or more efficient, or more subtle,
or more clever, something).

This teaser holds a place near and dear to my heart. Because, for the first
time in 9 years, I solved it before my friend did.  In fact, he hasn't
gotten it yet, and it only took me enough time to cut the lawn in the back
yard and half of the front (perfect thinking time).  You'll also note that
this teaser follows the first two of "Bytor's Rules for Teaser Excellence."
So, while the spinning disk one is still the best teaser of all time, the
special circumstances surrounding this one make it my second favorite.

The 100 prisoner problem.
You're one of 100 people in a room.  Soon you're all going into solitary
confinement where you'll spend the rest of your lives.  You'll each live in
your own cell and have no contact with anyone else.  However, every morning,
the warden is going to pick one of you at random (truly random) and put you
in a special room that we'll call "the light room."  This room has a single
light switch and a light attached to it.  Standard lightswitch stuff, up is
on, down is off.  At the end of the day, the person in the light room is
taken out and put back into his cell.  The warden won't touch the
lightswitch.

So, you've got this TINY bit of information you can use to communicate with
the other prisoners, because over time, eventually they'll all end up in
that room.  But you can't mark the walls or unscrew the bulb or anything
like that.  All you can do is change the orientation of the switch.

There's an escape clause for this lifelong solitary confinement.  At any
point, any prisoner can tell the warden, "All hundred of us has been in the
light room at least once."  If he's right, you'll all go free.  If he's
wrong, you'll all be tortured to death.  Every one of you would prefer a
lifetime in solitary confinement than to be put to death.

So, while you're all in the common room contemplating the horrible life
ahead of you, come up with an algorithm for determining, with complete and
absolute certanty, that you've all been in the light room and share it with
your fellow prisoners.

bytor



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21896
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 23 Oct 2002 20:39:06 GMT
Subject: Re: Teaser Vindication
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

bytor wrote:

"The 100 prisoner problem."

s



p


o


i


l


e


r


Here's a really bad answer.

All prisoners agree that, if they are placed within the room twice within
100 days, they will turn the light on, except you. You always turn it off.
You wait until you are brought into the room exactly 100 days after the
last time you were in the room. If the light is still off, then all the
prisoners have come through.

Of course, this will take much longer than the ordinary man's lifetime....

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21897
From: Michael P. Calligaro" 
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:45:58 -0700
Subject: Re: Teaser Vindication
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Questions down below.


<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message news:3db708ea.0@news.sff.net...
> bytor wrote:
>
> "The 100 prisoner problem."
>
> s
>
>
>
> p
>
>
> o
>
>
> i
>
>
> l
>
>
> e
>
>
> r
>
>
> Here's a really bad answer.
>
> All prisoners agree that, if they are placed within the room twice within
> 100 days, they will turn the light on, except you. You always turn it off.
> You wait until you are brought into the room exactly 100 days after the
> last time you were in the room. If the light is still off, then all the
> prisoners have come through.
>
> Of course, this will take much longer than the ordinary man's lifetime....

What happens if a prisoner gets into the room twice within 100 days and the
light is on?  What happens if on day 1000 everyone has been in the room.  On
day 1001 you go in.  On day 1002 the guy who was there on day 1000 goes in
again.  That's twice in 100 days for him, so he turns the light on.  On day
1101 you go back in.  Lights on even though everyone has been in there once.
You'll never get out.

bytor




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