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Archive of: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Archive desc: The Internet home for the Heinlein Forum
Archived by: webnews@sff.net
Archive date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 03:09:23
============================================================
Article 21588
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 02:10:06 GMT
Subject: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
the arrival of David Joseph Tilden!
today at 8:50 a.m.
8 lbs, 1.8 oz.
20.5 in.
Christine & David are doing fine. This labor was much easier for her.
Danny doesn't quite know what to make of his little brother yet....
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21589
From: Ed Johnson
Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 22:21:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT & Christine:
Congratulations on the arrival of David Joseph Tilden.
Ed J
On Mon, 05 Aug 2002 02:10:06 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT) wrote:
>the arrival of David Joseph Tilden!
>
>today at 8:50 a.m.
>8 lbs, 1.8 oz.
>20.5 in.
>
>Christine & David are doing fine. This labor was much easier for her.
>
>Danny doesn't quite know what to make of his little brother yet....
>
>JT
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21590
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 19:28:30 -0700
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT wrote:
> the arrival of David Joseph Tilden!
>
> today at 8:50 a.m.
> 8 lbs, 1.8 oz.
> 20.5 in.
>
> Christine & David are doing fine. This labor was much easier for her.
>
> Danny doesn't quite know what to make of his little brother yet....
>
> JT
>
>
>
Tell David Joseph when he's old enough that I'm very happy to be sharing
my birthday, as well as first name, with him. Congratulations! Persons
born on August 4th are all potentially the absolute finest!
David
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21591
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 19:55:08 -0700
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Congrats JT and Christine!
bytor
"JT" <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in message
news:3d4dddbc.3109125@news.sff.net...
> the arrival of David Joseph Tilden!
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21592
From: noone"
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 03:45:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
congratulations, good luck, health and long life for the newbie from another
"david" (though i don't use the name online)
"gunner"
-----------------------
"JT" <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in message
news:3d4dddbc.3109125@news.sff.net...
> the arrival of David Joseph Tilden!
>
> today at 8:50 a.m.
> 8 lbs, 1.8 oz.
> 20.5 in.
>
> Christine & David are doing fine. This labor was much easier for her.
>
> Danny doesn't quite know what to make of his little brother yet....
>
> JT
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21593
From: Dee"
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 06:44:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT--
Congratulations and best wishes to you all.
--Dee
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21594
From: Geo Rule
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 07:03:50 -0700
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Congrats!
On Mon, 05 Aug 2002 02:10:06 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT) wrote:
>the arrival of David Joseph Tilden!
>
>today at 8:50 a.m.
>8 lbs, 1.8 oz.
>20.5 in.
>
>Christine & David are doing fine. This labor was much easier for her.
>
>Danny doesn't quite know what to make of his little brother yet....
>
>JT
>
Geo Rule
www.civilwarstlouis.com
****
Specializing in the Confederate Secret Service,
the Sultana, Gratiot St. Prison,
Jesse James & Friends, Copperheads,
the Northwest Conspiracy, and the Damn Dutch.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21595
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 10:22:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Lost Legacy review
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Gordon G. Sollars" wrote:
> It might be better to simply say
> that the person lost a psychic power; explaining the details slows up the
> review for no compelling reason.
Which I shall do. thanks for the suggestion.
--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21596
From: TreetopAngel"
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 08:59:34 -0600
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"JT" is a proud Daddy:
> the arrival of David Joseph Tilden!
>
> today at 8:50 a.m.
> 8 lbs, 1.8 oz.
> 20.5 in.
>
> Christine & David are doing fine. This labor was much easier for her.
>
> Danny doesn't quite know what to make of his little brother yet....
>
Congratulations David on your new family!
Elizabeth
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21597
From: Lorrita Morgan"
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 11:13:23 -0700
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
David Joseph -- you couldn't give him an easier name to live up to. (This
from the person who named her children for great goddesses!) <bg>
You're just getting started started. In a way, I envy you. You don't have
the 20 plus years of joy, pain and guilt to look back on but you have the
joyful ignorance of holding that new life and seeing only the great
potentials. Try to hold on to that as you raise your sons to be real men
not these imitations we see around us -- in public office, as corporate
leaders, sports figures, entertainers, packaged as video games.
Tell Daniel that little are a pain only until you're both adults, then they
can be your best friends. I know because I have three younger bothers <sic>
who are now some of my most trusted advisors. (Mainly because they know
where the bodies are buried.)
Proverbs 22:6
--
Later,
`rita
http://pages.prodigy.net/lorrita-m/index.html
"JT" <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in message
news:3d4dddbc.3109125@news.sff.net...
> the arrival of David Joseph Tilden!
>
> today at 8:50 a.m.
> 8 lbs, 1.8 oz.
> 20.5 in.
>
> Christine & David are doing fine. This labor was much easier for her.
>
> Danny doesn't quite know what to make of his little brother yet....
>
> JT
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21598
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 02:21:53 GMT
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 5 Aug 2002 11:13:23 -0700, "Lorrita Morgan"
<lorrita-m@prodigy.net> wrote:
>David Joseph -- you couldn't give him an easier name to live up to. (This
>from the person who named her children for great goddesses!) <bg>
>
Always aim high. <g>
The family is together. Christine & Davey came home today. She was
anxious to come home & everybody checked out ok so here we are. Davey
is in my arm as I one-handedly type this. I'm going to try & sleep
soon because he's settled down--his website will have to wait until
tomorrow when my in-laws get here. <vbg>
I can't believe I am the father of two....
Thanks for all the well-wishes.
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21599
From: Randy J. Jost"
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 21:45:12 -0600
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT wrote:
> the arrival of David Joseph Tilden!
>
> today at 8:50 a.m.
> 8 lbs, 1.8 oz.
> 20.5 in.
>
> Christine & David are doing fine. This labor was much easier for her.
>
> Danny doesn't quite know what to make of his little brother yet....
>
> JT
Congratulations,
And don't forget it's never too early to start reading them to sleep with
a Heinlein juvenile. Much like Chicago voting - imprint them early and
often.
Best wishes,
Randy
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21600
From: Dee"
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:32:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Lorrita Morgan" <lorrita-m@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3d4ec047.0@news.sff.net...
> Tell Daniel that little [brothers] are a pain only until you're both
adults, then they
> can be your best friends. I know because I have three younger bothers
<sic>
> who are now some of my most trusted advisors. (Mainly because they know
> where the bodies are buried.)
`rita--
As an only "child" at age 48, I envy those of you who have someone who
shares your history like sibs do.
--Dee
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21601
From: Catherine Hampton
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 11:54:36 -0700
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 05 Aug 2002 02:10:06 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT) wrote:
>the arrival of David Joseph Tilden!
Congratulations! :)
--
Ariel (aka Catherine Hampton) <ariel@tempest.boxmail.com>
===========================================================
Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/>
Human Rights Web * <http://www.hrweb.org/>
The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/>
(Please use this address for replies -- the address in my header is a
spam trap.)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21602
From: Gordon G. Sollars
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 21:10:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
In article <3D4DE2CE.1050604@verizon.net>, David M. Silver writes...
>
>
> JT wrote:
>
> > the arrival of David Joseph Tilden!
All the best to you and your family JT.
....
> Tell David Joseph when he's old enough that I'm very happy to be sharing
> my birthday, as well as first name, with him. Congratulations! Persons
> born on August 4th are all potentially the absolute finest!
Let's see... Louis Armstrong... Percy Shelley... uhmm... David Silver!
Well, two out of three... ;-)
--
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21603
From: Lorrita Morgan"
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 18:15:43 -0700
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Boy I can tell I'm in a big flare! My dyslexia is causing me to leave out
whole words. OE's spell check catches the duplicates and most of the
spelling errors. but to leave out whole words! That's fibrofog.
For what I'm babbling about:
http://www.emedicine.com/PMR/topic47.htm
http://www.sover.net/~devstar/
http://www.fibrofriends.webga.com/Fibro_Foxworthy.htm
--
Later,
`rita
http://pages.prodigy.net/lorrita-m/index.html
"Dee" <ke4lfgDELETETHIS@amsat.org> wrote in message
news:3d4fd01d.0@news.sff.net...
>
> "Lorrita Morgan" <lorrita-m@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:3d4ec047.0@news.sff.net...
> > Tell Daniel that little [brothers] are a pain only until you're both
> adults, then they
> > can be your best friends. I know because I have three younger bothers
> <sic>
> > who are now some of my most trusted advisors. (Mainly because they know
> > where the bodies are buried.)
>
> `rita--
>
> As an only "child" at age 48, I envy those of you who have someone who
> shares your history like sibs do.
>
> --Dee
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21604
From: David M. Silver"
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 20:09:33 -0700
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Gordon G. Sollars wrote:
> In article <3D4DE2CE.1050604@verizon.net>, David M. Silver writes...
>
>>
>>JT wrote:
>>
>>
>>>the arrival of David Joseph Tilden!
>>>
>
> All the best to you and your family JT.
> ...
>
>>Tell David Joseph when he's old enough that I'm very happy to be sharing
>>my birthday, as well as first name, with him. Congratulations! Persons
>>born on August 4th are all potentially the absolute finest!
>>
>
> Let's see... Louis Armstrong... Percy Shelley... uhmm... David Silver!
>
> Well, two out of three... ;-)
>
>
What? You don't like Shelley's poetry either? I found he had a certain
not wholly developed talent but didn't achieve his earlier promise
either. Perhaps if he'd spent less time an expatriate eating lotuses.
Aw, well . . . ;-)
David
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21605
From: Dee"
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 09:00:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Lorrita Morgan" <lorrita-m@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3d5074c3.0@news.sff.net...
> Boy I can tell I'm in a big flare! My dyslexia is causing me to leave out
> whole words.
'rita--
So sorry to hear about the flareup. I just thought your brain was going
faster than your fingers. No problem, the sense was clear. To better days!
--Dee
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21606
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 18:39:09 GMT
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On Mon, 05 Aug 2002 02:10:06 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT) wrote:
>the arrival of David Joseph Tilden!
>
David now has his own simple website:
http://www.tildenlanefarm.com/djt/ .
JT
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21607
From: David Wright"
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:56:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"JT" <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in message
news:3d5168e1.4320437@news.sff.net...
> On Mon, 05 Aug 2002 02:10:06 GMT, JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT) wrote:
> >the arrival of David Joseph Tilden!
> >
> David now has his own simple website:
>
> http://www.tildenlanefarm.com/djt/ .
>
Great looking family. Reminds me of my two when my youngest was born, (July
1969).
David Wright
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21608
Article no longer available
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21609
From: webnews@sff.net
Date: 8 Aug 2002 08:05:52 GMT
Subject: SpamGuard
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
One or more articles in this newsgroup have been cancelled by the sysops
for being spammed across multiple newsgroups, being commercial adverts,
or for violating SFF Net's Policies and Procedures.
To avoid seeing this notice in the future, set your newsreader to filter
out articles with SpamGuard in the subject.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21610
From: anonymous@sff.net (Anonymous Visitor)
Date: 8 Aug 2002 19:11:17 GMT
Subject: Re: Lost Legacy review
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Gordon Sollars wrote:
"Yes, but Filk's point is that the one-line description in the review is
insufficient to make all of this clear. It might be better to simply say
that the person lost a psychic power; explaining the details slows up the
review for no compelling reason."
Thanks for explaining this, as a back injury kept me off my computer for
about a week.
You are quite correct. If I had never read the story, I _could_ have read
that line as saying that the person now could walk up to a refrigerator,
see it, walk around the back, and the refrigerator would become invisible.
Since I did read the story, I understood it.
This is a very common problem when writing reviews and such. It is very
easy to write a line that "obviously" means X, without realizing that its
obviousness is bolstered by the fact that you _knew_ it meant X.
Filksinger
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21611
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 8 Aug 2002 19:15:56 GMT
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Congratulations to everyone!
You could try doing what we did with my wife's youngest brother. We told
him David was "his baby". He became very solicitous towards the baby after
that.
Filksinger
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21612
From: RPostelnek"
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 21:54:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Announcing....
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
JT
Congrats!!!
Rosie
JT <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in message
news:3d4dddbc.3109125@news.sff.net...
> the arrival of David Joseph Tilden!
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21613
From: David Wright"
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 21:25:11 -0400
Subject: Heinlein on Expansion
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
While re-reading Double Star, I was struck by the apparent contrast in the
views presented by Heinlein's characters on the subject of expansion in this
work and those presented in Starship Troopers.
Several questions came to mind:
a) Which, if either, of these viewpoints represent those of Heinlein
personally.
b) Are they really contradictory? If not, how can they be reconciled?
What do you think?
David Wright
The following are the two quotations in contrast.
===========
Double Star
1956
Even a dog has rules of conduct. what were mine? How did I behave—or, at
least, how did I like to think I behaved?
“The show must go on.” I had always believed that and lived by it. But why
must the show go on?—seeing that some shows are pretty terrible. Well,
because you agreed to do it, because there is an audience out there; they
have paid and each one of them is entitled to the best you can give. You owe
it to them. You owe it also to stagehands and manager and producer and other
members of the company—and to those who taught you your trade, and to others
stretching back in history to open-air theaters and stone seats and even to
story-tellers squatting in a market place. Noblesse oblige.
I decided that the notion could be generalized into any occupation. “Value
for value.” Building “on the square and on the level.” The Hippocratic oath.
Don’t let the team down. Honest work for honest pay. Such things did not
have to be proved; they were an essential part of life—true throughout
eternity, true in the farthest reaches of the Galaxy.
I suddenly got a glimpse of what Bonforte was driving at. If there were
ethical basics that transcended time and place, then they were true both for
Martians and for men. They were true on any planet around any star—and if
the human race did not behave accordingly they weren’t ever going to win to
the stars because some better race would slap them down for double-dealing.
The price of expansion was virtue. “Never give a sucker an even break” was
too narrow a philosophy to fit the broad reaches of space.
==================
Starship Troopers
1959
Check of proof. Is it possible to abolish war by relieving population
pressure (and thus do away with the all-too-evident evils of war) through
constructing a moral code under which population is limited to resources?
Without debating the usefulness or morality of planned parenthood, it may be
verified by observation that any breed which stops its own increase gets
crowded out by breeds which expand. Some human populations did so, in Terran
history, and other breeds moved in and engulfed them.
Nevertheless, let’s assume that the human race manages to balance birth and
death, just right to fit its own planets, and thereby becomes peaceful. What
happens?
Soon (about next Wednesday) the Bugs move in, kill off this breed which “ain
’t a gonna study war no more” and the universe forgets us. Which still may
happen. Either we spread and wipe out the Bugs, or they spread and wipe us
out—because both races are tough and smart and want the same real estate.
Do you know how fast population pressure could cause us to fill the entire
universe shoulder to shoulder? The an-swer will astound you, just the
flicker of an eye in terms of the age of our race.
Try it—it’s a compound-interest expansion.
But does Man have any “right” to spread through the universe?
Man is what he is, a wild animal with the will to survive, and (so far) the
ability, against all competition. Unless one accepts that, anything one says
about morals, war, politics— you name it—is nonsense. Correct morals arise
from know-ing what Man is—not what do-gooders and well-meaning old Aunt
Nellies would like him to be.
The universe will let us know—later—whether or not Man has any “right” to
expand through it.
In the meantime the M.I. will be in there, on the bounce.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21614
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 20:04:51 -0700
Subject: Re: Heinlein on Expansion
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Beacuse of my answer for b), I'll say for a) that both are likely Heinlein's
personality speaking. It's generally dangerous to associate what some
character in a book says with the true beliefs of the author. But Heinlein
sure liked to preach. It's hard to believe he preached so much about views
he didn't hold.
As for b), I don't think they're contradictory at all. The underlying basis
of the first passage is, "Do a good job." There is stuff about some better
race beating us down if we don't fly straight, but I distinctly read that
as, "If we try to cheat, we'll get called for it" and not, "We shouldn't be
trying to expand."
The second passage is "anything that's not growing is dying." That neither
contradicts nor compliments "do a good job." They're really separate.
Now, if you squint, you might see one passage talking about a better race
beating us down if we don't play nice and another saying we've got to fight
for land to survive. That would look like they contradict. But I believe
that Heinlein saw "Play nice" and "military expansion" as unrelated. You
can play nice while you're taking over another country (or planet, or solar
system, etc). Fight honorably. Stay true to yourself and your
goals/ideals. Do what's necessary to win, but don't do more (in other
words, if you need to go in and rape the women and slaughter the children to
win, then so be it, but if you only need to defeat the military, then after
defeating the military you do NOT go in and rape the women and slaughter the
children, etc).
Together, I thing Heinlein is saying, "be honorable" and "don't be a
pacifist." No contradiction there.
bytor
"David Wright" <dwrighsr@alltel.net> wrote in message
> a) Which, if either, of these viewpoints represent those of Heinlein
> personally.
> b) Are they really contradictory? If not, how can they be reconciled?
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21615
From: RPostelnek"
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 20:39:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Heinlein on Expansion
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
David Wright <dwrighsr@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:3d55bcfa.0@news.sff.net...
> While re-reading Double Star, I was struck by the apparent contrast in the
> views presented by Heinlein's characters on the subject of expansion in
this
> work and those presented in Starship Troopers.
>
> Several questions came to mind:
>
> a) Which, if either, of these viewpoints represent those of Heinlein
> personally.
They both could, but I don't really know.
> b) Are they really contradictory? If not, how can they be reconciled?
>
I don't think they are really contradictory. The one from Double Star was
talking about honest work for honest pay. The one from Starship Troopers
was talking about balancing population and not studying war anymore, an
entirely differently subject.
> Rosie
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21616
From: debrule@dahoudek.com (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:44:47 GMT
Subject: Reviews and Heinlein page update
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Hi everyone--
I was gone last week on a trip to Minnesota so did no web update.
Planning to do one this week with the latest Heinlein reviews. I have
"Citizen of the Galaxy" from David W. Are there others ready? Eli, is
"Lost Legacy" ready to go or still working on it?
Deb (D.A. Houdek)
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21617
From: David Wright"
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:11:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Reviews and Heinlein page update
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
"Deb Houdek Rule" <debrule@dahoudek.com> wrote in message
news:3d594521.252372@NEWS.SFF.NET...
>
> Hi everyone--
> I was gone last week on a trip to Minnesota so did no web update.
> Planning to do one this week with the latest Heinlein reviews. I have
> "Citizen of the Galaxy" from David W. Are there others ready? Eli, is
> "Lost Legacy" ready to go or still working on it?
>
Deb. I have done one on _Double Star_. If no one else has spoken for that
one, I'll post mine here this evening and see what you think.
David Wright
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21618
From: David Wright"
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:29:57 -0400
Subject: Poem- The Cat Who Walks Through Walls
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
On going through files on my disk, I came across this one from CompuServe in
1994. Is anyone familiar with it?
Please pardon the All Caps.
David Wright
CAT
WORDS AND MELODY (I THINK) JO WATERMAN
A MAN SAT DOWN ONE QUIET NIGHT
AT MY TABLE IN A BAR
MY DATE WAS IN THE POWDER ROOM
ANCHORIN' A STAR.
I TOLD HIM MAKE IT QUICK
GET OFF THE STICK
I'D NOT THE EVENING PALL
BUT THAT WAS LONG BEFORE I MET
THE CAT WHO WALKS THROUGH WALLS.
HE OPENED HIS MOUTH AND BEGAN TO SPEAK
OF A MAN HE WANTED ME TO KILL
I DON'T KNOW WHERE HE GOT THE THOUGHT
THAT I EITHER COULD OR WILL
HE WAS PIERCED THROUGH THE HEART
WITH A FEATHERED DART
AS HE WAS TELLING ALL--
BUT THAT WAS LONG BEFORE I MET
THE CAT WHO WALKS THROUGH WALLS.
NOW, BEFORE THAT FATEFUL NIGHT WAS OUT,
MY DATE BECAME MY BRIDE.
THE BIG BOSS HAD HIS DOGS AROUSED,
WE HAD TO RUN AND HIDE.
THE ONLY TUB AGO-IN'
WAS A RUSTY OLD TIN-CAN
TO HEAD US ON OUR JOURNEY OUT
TO MEET THE CAT WHO WALKS THROUGH WALLS.
WE LANDED WITH A FEARSOME THUMP
ON THE MOUNTAINS OF THE MOON.
I KNEW WE ALL WERE GONERS
IF HELP DIDN'T GET THEIR SOON.
BUT HELP WAS CLOSE AT HAND
TO TIP THE SCALE OF FATE.
WHEN YOU'RE ABOUT TO MEET THE CAT
IT PAYS NOT TO BE LATE.
BUT FATE HAD NOT FINISHED YET
SHE SENT US SOME MORE FUN.
OUR FAITHFUL RETAINER
WAS A TRAITOR ON THE RUN.
I MET WITH QUITE A NASTY FATE,
WAS NEARLY CUT TO BITS--
BUT THAT WAS HOW I CAME TO MEET
THE CAT WHO WALKS THROUGH WALLS.
I WOKE UP IN QUIET BED
WITH THE CAT UPON MY CHEST.
TO VIBRATE THE WHOLE BED DOWN,
HE SURELY DID HIS BEST.
HE HAD BLUE EYES AND YELLOW FUR
AND PIXEL HE WAS CALLED.
I HAD BEEN ADOPTED
BY THE CAT WHO WALKS THROUGH WALLS.
NOW, TIME IS FAST AND TIME IS SLOW
AND TIME IT MAY BE BENT.
BUT ANYHOW YOU SLICE IT,
TIME SURE AIN'T NO GENT.
WE'VE GOT TO STOP THE OVERLORD
AND MAKE HIM TAKE A FALL--
DISTRACTED BY THE SWEETNESS OF
THE CAT WHO WALKS THROUGH WALLS.
THERE'S A SENTIENT COMPUTER
THAT WE ARE OUT TO GET.
WHEN WE GET IT RUNNING
OVERLORD'LL HAVE A FIT.
HE SENT HIS HOUNDS A-RUNNING
JUST AS WE GOT IT ALL
AND HE HAS SLAIN MY BONNY WIFE
AND THE CAT WHO WALKS THROUGH WALLS.
AS WE LAY A-DYIN'
I KNOCKED DOWN HER BAG.
OUT FELL FOUR DARTS AND A LITTLE GUN,
I KNEW THAT I'D BEEN HAD.
"I HAD TO KILL HIM, LOVE," SHE SAID
"OR HE'D HAVE KILLED YOU FIRST."
BUT THE OVERLORD HAS KILLED US BOTH
AND THE CAT WHO WALKS THROUGH WALLS.
NOW TIME MAY BE AND ENDLESS GAME,
OR A CIRCLE IN REVERSE.
OR MAY BE ITS A YELLOW CAT'S
STRINGENT DEATH BORN CURSE.
OR THE DISTRESSFUL DYING CRY
OF A MAN TOO SOON GROWN OLD--
BUT PLEASE MR. HEINLEIN, A RESCUE SEQUEL,
FOR THE CAT WHO WALKS THROUGH WALLS.
OF COURSE BY NOW, MR. HEINLEIN HAS WRITTEN
THE SEQUEL, AND IT IS OUT IN HARD COVER. BUT
AT THE TIME OF WRITING THIS THE FINAL VERSE WAS
MOST APPROPRIATE.
THE MELODY FOR THIS DITTY MAY BE FOUND IN MUSIC SHOP
FILE CAT.MUS.
I THINK IT IS ORIGINAL, BUT THIS ONE MAY BE A TUNE TO
SOMETHING THAT HAS LODGED IN MY HEAD AND EMERGED WITH
WORDS.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21619
From: Clay Steiner"
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 12:49:24 -0600
Subject: My latest Lazarus impression...
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Not that one, but the original back-from-the-dead guy. You know, from that
other book... <G>.
So, fer the first time in my computing life, I actually own a brand new
machine. And like most folks will do with a new car, I'm driving it to one
of my very favorite places first thing and hoping that some friends are
there, for showing-off purposes. Except in my case I'm not showing off how
pretty or fast my new car is, so much as I am comparing it to my old (old
_squared_) Mac and saying, "Lookee -- it actually has an engine in it!"
Got me a desktop Sony Vaio, I did -- Windows XP Home, 1.3 GHz Celeron
processor, 40 GB HD, 256 MB RAM expandable to 512 MB, CD-RW and DVD-ROM
drives, etc.
I'd hang around longer, but I'm due at the airport side-job soon. I'll
likely cruise back by here tonight -- there's much to catch up on. Heads up
to Bytor and/or Filksinger: I'll probably be asking for guidance soon on
transferring some old files from the clunker, chief among them my novel and
stories written with MS Word for Mac (version ?, using OS 8) into
WordPerfect 10, and my Outlook address book.
As always, it's good to be back at the old hangout. See you again late
tonight (after midnight MDT).
Clay/Cpl Ted
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21620
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:19:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Reviews and Heinlein page update
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Deb Houdek Rule wrote:
> Eli, is "Lost Legacy" ready to go or still working on it?
It should be in your inbox now.
--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21621
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 13 Aug 2002 21:14:35 GMT
Subject: Puzzle
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
You are a prisoner, locked in a room with several other prisoners. One of
the other prisoners Knocks on the door. The guard says: 12. The prisoner
replies: 6. The guard opens the door and releases him. Another prisoner
knocks on the door. The guard says: 6. That prisoner replies: 3. The guard
opens the door and releases him. Courage built, you knock on the door. The
guard says: 5.
What do you reply, and why?
Filksinger
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21622
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 20:28:12 -0700
Subject: Re: Puzzle
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
<speculation that may be a spoiler, but who knows?>
I can't think of any reason you wouldn't say "two and a half." Although the
previous 5 numbers were integers, there's really no reason to think that's a
constraint. If the problem is solvable, then we have to go with the
information you gave us. Since it's "several" other prisoners, then the
number of current prisoners is inconsequential. We don't have any data to
suggest that you'll die if you say the wrong thing, so there's really no
reason to not guess at something. Otherwise, you'd have given us the option
to not go up to the door in the first place, or at least to not reply. So
that leaves number patterns. 12->6, 6->3 clearly follows the "divide by two"
pattern. Another potential pattern is that the guard is saying what the
last person said, but he broke that by saying 5 for us instead of 3. Is
there an obscure number pattern for 12,6,6,3,5,? that I'm missing?
bytor
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message news:3d5976bb.0@news.sff.net...
> You are a prisoner, locked in a room with several other prisoners. One of
> the other prisoners Knocks on the door. The guard says: 12. The prisoner
> replies: 6. The guard opens the door and releases him. Another prisoner
> knocks on the door. The guard says: 6. That prisoner replies: 3. The guard
> opens the door and releases him. Courage built, you knock on the door. The
> guard says: 5.
>
> What do you reply, and why?
>
> Filksinger
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21623
From: Dee"
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 00:13:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Puzzle
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message news:3d5976bb.0@news.sff.net...
> You are a prisoner, locked in a room with several other prisoners. One of
> the other prisoners Knocks on the door. The guard says: 12. The prisoner
> replies: 6. The guard opens the door and releases him. Another prisoner
> knocks on the door. The guard says: 6. That prisoner replies: 3. The guard
> opens the door and releases him. Courage built, you knock on the door. The
> guard says: 5.
>
> What do you reply, and why?
4.
Each answer is the number of letters in the question.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21624
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:42:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Puzzle
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Cute.
One trouble with number patterns is that they can be arbitrarily hard. I
once saw one that was the last hex digits of the ascii codes of a word. I
mean, yeah, no one got it, but what did that prove? Nice job on this one.
bytor
"Dee" <ke4lfgDELETETHIS@amsat.org> wrote in message
news:3d59e874.0@news.sff.net...
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21625
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:49:44 -0700
Subject: Well, if we're going to do puzzles...
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
This is my favorite of the "knights and knaves" type puzzles.
You go into a strange store, and in the back corner are three special
computers. They're omnipotent and always give the right answer if an answer
can be given, but only answer Yes or No (or "Unanswerable" if it's a
question that has no answer). So, if you said, "Is it currently raining in
New York" they'd answer yes if it is and no if it isn't, and they'd get it
right. On the other hand, if you said, "Is this sentence false?" they'd
reply "Unaswerable." Etc.
Trouble is, one of them is malfunctioning. You have no idea how the broken
one will respond. He may tell the truth, he may lie, he may say that an
aswerable question is unanswerable. No clue whatsoever what he'll do.
You'd really like to buy one of these computers, but you can only afford
one. The shopkeeper will let you ask one question, to one computer (you can
pick which), and then you have to choose which to buy. Again, two always
tell the truth, the other does whatever it feels like at the moment.
What question do you ask?
bytor
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21626
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 08:49:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Puzzle
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
bytor, I'm still with you that 2.5 is equally valid, given the information we
had. There's no reason, a priori, to expect one pattern is more likely
correct than another.
"Michael P. Calligaro" wrote:
> Cute.
>
> One trouble with number patterns is that they can be arbitrarily hard. I
> once saw one that was the last hex digits of the ascii codes of a word. I
> mean, yeah, no one got it, but what did that prove? Nice job on this one.
>
> bytor
>
> "Dee" <ke4lfgDELETETHIS@amsat.org> wrote in message
> news:3d59e874.0@news.sff.net...
--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21627
From: David Wright"
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 08:45:08 -0400
Subject: Double Star Review
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Here is my take on Double Star. Please enjoy and let me know what you think.
Note that I have included in it a briefer version of the question I posed
here earlier about the differences in philosophies between it and ST.
==========================
Double Star
Ó Robert A. Heinlein 1956
"After what seemed like days-but was not, since the whole ceremony times
exactly one ninth of Mars' rotation-after an endless time, we ate. I don't
know what and perhaps it is just as well. It did not poison me.
After that the elders made their speeches, I made my acceptance speech in
answer, and they gave me my name and my wand. I was a Martian.
I did not know how to use the wand and my name sounded like a leaky faucet,
but from that instant on it was my legal name on Mars and I was legally a
blood member of the most aristocratic family on the planet-exactly fifty-two
hours after a ground hog down on his luck had spent his last half Imperial
buying a drink for a stranger in the bar of Casa Manana.
I guess this proves that one should never pick up strangers."
The Solar System is governed by a constitutional monarchy headed by Willem,
Prince of Orange, Duke of Nassau, Grand Duke of Luxembourg, Knight Commander
of The Holy Roman Empire, Admiral General of the Imperial Forces, Adviser to
the Martian Nests, Protector of the Poor, and by the Grace of God, King of
the Lowlands and Emperor of the Planets and the Spaces Between. The Imperial
Capital and the seat of the Parliament is located in Luna at New Batavia.
Non-humans are not allowed to join in the government and John Joseph
Bonforte, leader of the Expansionist Party and former Supreme Minister has
as one of his goals to bring the non-humans into the government. As part of
this, he has arranged to be adopted by the most influential of the Martian
Nests.
Extremists in the opposing party, the Humanity Party, have kidnapped him in
an attempt to prevent the adoption from taking place. Not only would this be
a blow to Bonforte's goals, but could result in the death of all humans on
Mars. Martians take adoption very seriously.
Bonforte's associates have rushed to Earth to find someone who can
impersonate Bonforte at the adoption ceremony. They find Larry Smyth, or as
he prefers to style himself, The Great Lorenzo, an actor down on his luck
who matches Bonforte's physical appearance, but moreover, possesses the
skill and talent to pull off the impersonation.
The story takes us through the adoption ceremony, an audience with the
Emperor and an election campaign which puts Bonforte's party back into
power.
Full of the details of campaigns, governments and the workings of political
teams, this book is considered to draw heavily on Heinlein's own experiences
in the political area from the time that he ran, unsuccessfully, for state
assembly in California.
In the end, Lorenzo finds that things never turn out to be as simple as they
look and he is forced to grow not only in the role that he has undertaken to
play, but as a person himself.
It is interesting to note what appears to be a difference, at least on the
surface, in philosophies between this book and one of Heinlein's most
controversial books, Starship Troopers, written just 3 years and some months
later than this one. Compare the two quotes below, read the two books and
judge for yourself.
"I suddenly got a glimpse of what Bonforte was driving at. If there were
ethical basics that transcended time and place, then they were true both for
Martians and for men. They were true on any planet around any star-and if
the human race did not behave accordingly they weren't ever going to win to
the stars because some better race would slap them down for double-dealing.
The price of expansion was virtue. "Never give a sucker an even break" was
too narrow a philosophy to fit the broad reaches of space."
And from starship Troopers:
"But does Man have any "right" to spread through the universe?
Man is what he is, a wild animal with the will to survive, and (so far) the
ability, against all competition. Unless one accepts that, anything one says
about morals, war, politics- you name it-is nonsense. Correct morals arise
from knowing what Man is-not what do-gooders and well-meaning old Aunt
Nellies would like him to be.
The universe will let us know-later-whether or not Man has any "right" to
expand through it.
In the meantime the M.I. will be in there, on the bounce.
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21628
From: Eli Hestermann
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:09:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Double Star Review
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
I like it, David. _Double Star_ has always been one of my favorites,
because it's one of the few Heinlein novels where an adult character
grows and changes.
--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa." -Seneca
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21629
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 14 Aug 2002 14:00:58 GMT
Subject: Re: Double Star Review
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
David Wright wrote:
"Here is my take on Double Star. Please enjoy and let me know what you think."
Two minor points.
1. He was either known as Lorenzo Smythe, or Lawrence Smith. Maybe Larry
Smith. I'm pretty sure he was not known as Larry Smyth.
2. The last line of the quotation from Starship Troopers is confusing to
anyone who does not know what the MI are. I recommend removing that final
line from the quotation, as it adds nothing for people who are new to Heinlein,
who probably won't know who the MI are.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21630
From: David Wright"
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:10:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Double Star Review
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message news:3d5a629a.0@news.sff.net...
> David Wright wrote:
>
> "Here is my take on Double Star. Please enjoy and let me know what you
think."
>
> Two minor points.
>
> 1. He was either known as Lorenzo Smythe, or Lawrence Smith. Maybe Larry
> Smith. I'm pretty sure he was not known as Larry Smyth.
>
> 2. The last line of the quotation from Starship Troopers is confusing to
> anyone who does not know what the MI are. I recommend removing that final
> line from the quotation, as it adds nothing for people who are new to
Heinlein,
> who probably won't know who the MI are.
> --
Good points. Thanks.
BTW were you familiar with the CAT song, I posted?
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21631
From: filksinger@mindspring.com
Date: 14 Aug 2002 14:59:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Well, if we're going to do puzzles...
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Spoilers
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Well, this will work if and only if the possibilities are true answer, false
answer, or "Not answerable". If he might say things at random, you're stuck.
"If you were to answer the question "Are you working properly" with the
same accuracy as you will answer this question, what would the answer be?"
If it is a good computer, the answer will be yes. If it is malfunctioning,
it will either answer "Not Answerable" (and thus is the malfunctioning computer),
or "No", because it is either answering truthfully about what it would truthfully
say (i.e. No, it is not working properly), or it is false saying that it
would say it is broken, when it would in fact have falsely said it was working
(i.e. If I asked "are you working properly", it would have said yes, and
so it falsely reports that it would have said no).
Hows that?:)
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21632
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 14 Aug 2002 15:03:58 GMT
Subject: Re: Double Star Review
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
David Wright wrote:
"Good points. Thanks.
BTW were you familiar with the CAT song, I posted?"
Nope, that's a new one on me. Not surprising, as I haven't heard a Heinlein
inspired filk in years. I think the last one I heard was either a filk about
"The Long Watch", or "The Green Hills of Earth".
Thanks for the song.
--
Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.
Geek Prophet to the Technologically Declined
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21633
From: Al Carnali
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:20:03 -0400
Subject: Cat problem - need advice
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Hi Folks,
I came to the Heinlein forum for advise because I know many of you are
cat lovers and could probably help me out with my problem.
About two weeks ago, my wife and I decided it was once again time to
bring a cat into our house. My cat of 19 years had died in the spring
and we both felt we were finally ready to adopt a new cat.
We went to one of the local shelters where we became attached to two
kittens. One of them is a small white, grey and black twelve week old
named Pinky. The other is a buff sixteen week old we called Newt.
Pinky is the sweetest most affectionate cat I've ever come across. He's
really gentle and quiet and is very happy just sitting up against you
and purring.
Newt, on the other hand, is the cat from hell. He's into everything, is
always trying to scratch and bite us and finds new and unique ways to
drive us crazy on an hourly basis. I don't think any of this is
malicious, I think it's just young hyperactive kitty behavior and I'm
sure with time we could probably work him through it.
My concern is for Pinky. He's much smaller then Newt and every once in
a while Newt just goes after him. Again, I think it's just kitten
behavior but he does some serious scratching and biting and I'm afraid
he might do some permanent damage. For the most part, Pinky doesn't
seem to mind these confrontations, he usually just gives it right back
to him, but every once and a while he'll take off and hide under one of
the cabinets.
When I'm around, I try to let the fights go on, unless it gets too
aggressive, because I figure they have to work out the relationship
themselves. I do worry about what happens during the day when I'm at
work.
Have any of you been through anything like this? If so how did you
handle it? Am I just being foolishly worried or is my concern
legitimate?
Thanks for your help,
Al
------------------------------------------------------------
Article 21634
From: Michael P. Calligaro"
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:14:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Puzzle
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Naw, 4 is the right answer because it's cooler. (-:
bytor
"Eli Hestermann" <Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:3D5A51D7.16E0B848@dfci.harvard.edu...
> bytor, I'm still with you that 2.5 is equally valid, given the information
we
> had. There's no reason, a priori, to expect one pattern is more likely
> correct than another.
------------------------------------------------------------
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