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Archive of:   sff.discuss.heinlein-forum
Archive desc: The Internet home for the Heinlein Forum
Archived by:  webnews@sff.net
Archive date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 17:11:57
============================================================

Article 18890
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:10:13 -0800
Subject: Bad News for PGP
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

According to two Czech cryptographers, all versions of PGP to date, plus
many related programs using the OpenPGP system, can be cracked with little
more than a copy of the encrypted secret key file, which is often stored
where it can be easily reached due to its supposed security.

This is pretty bad, though it could be worse. They have demonstrated it on a
couple of OpenPGP programs, including PGP 7. Here's more info:

http://www.icz.cz/en/onas/tisk4.html

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18891
From: Bill Dauphin <dauphinb@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 21:49:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Roll Call
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum



"Brian E. Scherrer" wrote:

> It looks like it's that time again...

OK, if it's really that time, here's my info. Please forgive me for
reposting my Roll Call entry from last Fall almost verbatim, but not a
whole lot has changed in the interim (including the fact that I *still*
haven't unpacked all the boxes from my move <sigh>)...

Bill Dauphin, aka JovBill (e-mail me if you want the story behind the
handle; the old cobbers have heard it tooooo many times!)

Age: 40 (still getting used to that, even though it'll be 41 in about 6
weeks <big sigh>)

Married: Spousal Unit = Anne
Parent: Juvenile Unit = Mara (age 10)
Cat Servant: Feline Master = Miranda (she has the right to remain
silent!)

Residence: Recently moved from Greenacres, FL (in the West Palm Beach
metro area) to Vernon, CT (in the Hartford metro area)

Employment: Tech Writer for Pratt & Whitney (maker of jet and rocket
engines). Actually, a more accurate job description would be
"editor/publications specialist": I work on new business proposals
(worked on the proposal for the Joint Strike Fighter engine last fall,
and more recently a large series of R&D proposals under the Air Force's
Integrated High Performance Turbine Engine Technologies program), and
most of the text is actually written by content-area experts (i.e.,
engineers, program managers, cost analysts, etc.). What I do is almost
everything else required turn it into a book: edit/rewrite the text, edit
and coordinate production of the illustrations, lay out pages and
sections, coordinate the publication schedule, etc. It's a fun -- though
stressful -- job, and it lets me peek at a lot of cool technology. P&W
just relocated its Miliatry Engines organization (the division I work
for) to its main plant in East Hartford. Many of my colleagues were
unhappy at having to leave FL, but I'm looking forward to living in a
place where there are real seasons and the ground isn't all flat.
(Update: We're just coming to the end of one of the snowiest winters in
recent memory here, and all of my friends are waiting for me to "crack"
and admit that I'm eager for spring... but in fact, I'm sad to see the
snow melting: I'd hoped to get in a few more days' skiing, not to mention
several more trips to the town sledding hill.)

Hobbies: Unpacking, buying lawn equipment, unpacking, calling plumbers,
unpacking, installing appliances, unpacking <sad how this part really
hasn't changed much since Fall>.... Maybe after a few months I'll get
back to my real hobbies... sport rocketry and astronomy (still no luck on
this, though I hope to make it to a rocket club event next Sunday). I'm
also a student in the University of North Dakota's online Space Studies
Masters degree program (www.space.edu), which is really a hobby activity,
since I don't expect to actually do anything practical with the degree
(though I will get a nice stock bonus from P&W when I complete it). Have
taken my first tentative steps toward making hiking my lastest hobby.

First RAH: Don't recall what I've said in past Roll Calls, but I think it
was either _Rocketship Galileo_ or _Have Spacesuit, Will Travel_, both of
which were in my Jr High library. I know I read _Stranger_ and _Red
Planet_ early on as well.

Favorite RAH: As many others have said, probably the one I reread most
recently... but I have a special fondness for _Double Star_ and _The
Door Into Summer_.

Least Favorite RAH: _I Will Fear No Evil_... though I confess to having
*loved* it when I first read it as a young teen (~13?), because of all
the sex.

Other SF Authors I Like: Larry Niven, Spider Robinson, Orson Scot Card
(the Ender books, mostly), Joe Haldeman, Allen Steele, John Barnes, John
Varley, Poul Anderson (the Time Patrol stories mostly, though I'm trying
to pick up on other stuff), Arthur C. Clarke (early stuff, mostly; after
_Hammer of God_ and _3001_, I've pretty much given up on his new
releases)...

Education: BA in English, University of Houston, 1981 (I saw Hakeem
Olajuwon and Clyde Drexler play college hoops, and watched Joe Montana
beat us in the Cotton Bowl his last year at Notre Dame); MA in
English/Creative Writing, SUNY-Binghamton, 1984; Currently enrolled in
University of North Dakota (see "Hobbies" above).

Politics: Around here I'm the token liberal; by *normal* standards
<gd&rlh>, I'm a moderate centrist. Registered Republican throughout my
voting career, but hadn't voted that way in recent years so I changed
when I had to re-register in CT. (I always root for new administrations
to do well, BTW, but nothing I've seen so far makes me regret having
voted against W.)

Religion: Roman Catholic (converted when I met my wife)

Digital Religion <g>: MacOS (My current machine is a Power Computing
PowerBase 180 Mac clone running MacOS 8.0.)

Digital Apostasy <g>: I acquired an old, free Wintel machine (Pentium <no
Roman numeral> 120 MHz, 32 Mb RAM, 1 Mb VRAM, ~1 Gb HD, 8X CD-ROM) just
before Christmas. I'll use it mostly for rocketry- and astronomy-related
shareware/budgetware not available for Mac... plus which, Mara loves to
think of it as "her" computer.

Forum History: I've been around since the *P days, first (circa 1991?) as
a lurker and occasional poster from my Dad's account, then becoming a
regular when I had a week of bed-rest following ankle surgery and could
do almost nothing but putter around with a borrowed laptop (PowerBook,
actually). I've been in and out, and missed the earliest days of the
SFFnet incarnation, but I've been back for 2 or 3 years now. I've never
made it to a Gathering, and have only met one other HFer in person (The
Admiral, an old *P cobber whom I met in DC when Iwas in the area for a
model rocket event).

Web page: http://pw2.netcom.com/~dauphinb/index.htm. There's
nothing much there but links to my schoolwork, but that includes some
astronomy stuff y'all might enjoy.

-JovBill


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18892
From: eljohn2@home.spamthis.com (Ed Johnson)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 21:40:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Bad News for PGP
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

FS:    I'd like to hear bytor's comments on the ease of cracking
older versions of PGP, `cause he has showed some interest in it in
the past.  (PGP, not the ease of cracking).
  I thought it was only the most recent versions of PGP that had
anything to hide (like possible vulnerable spots).

Ed J

On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:10:13 -0800, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:

>According to two Czech cryptographers, all versions of PGP to date, plus
>many related programs using the OpenPGP system, can be cracked with little
>more than a copy of the encrypted secret key file, which is often stored
>where it can be easily reached due to its supposed security.
>
>This is pretty bad, though it could be worse. They have demonstrated it on a
>couple of OpenPGP programs, including PGP 7. Here's more info:
>
>http://www.icz.cz/en/onas/tisk4.html
>
>Filksinger
>


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18893
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:02:36 -0800
Subject: Re: Bad News for PGP
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Well, the ease of cracking PGP is still questionable.

You see, when it comes to an encryption implementation like OpenPGP (which
is essentially the same implementation used in all previous versions of
PGP), there are two possible meanings to cracking it.

The first is to crack the encryption. So far, PGP 2 is still pretty safe, at
the highest level of encryption. The latest versions are even more so.

The second is where the flaw comes in. That is when the encryption is used
correctly/incorrectly. In this case, it was used incorrectly, and now PGP is
potentially vulnerable. The exact details are still fuzzy, but here's the
gist of it.

When encrypting for a public key (asymmetric) encryption system like PGP,
you have several steps to go through. One requires that there be generated a
public key that anyone can have, and a secret key only the user possesses.

This secret key must be kept absolutely secure. If it isn't, then anyone who
obtains it can read your messages _and_ send messages as you, so long as you
use it.

Unfortunately for keeping it secret, the best security key available is
4,096 bits long. Memorizing this would require memorizing 256 hexadecimal
numbers that _cannot_ be chosen by the user, because they must be chosen
from a select list. Since memorizing this key is effectively impossible,
instead the key is stored in a keyshare, and the keyshare is encrypted with
a different type of algorithm. This allows the use of user-chosen letters
and numbers, and requiring much fewer characters, to boot. The user can thus
open the encrypted keyshare, which then uses your secret key from the
keyshare to encrypt your messages.

Unfortunately, the way in which the keyshare is encrypted is flawed. The
researchers in question haven't released the exact method yet, but
apparently it is possible to crack they keyshare encryption because of a
flaw in the implementation. Apparently, this requires a copy of the keyshare
and some signed messages (which may have funny qualities to them, but I
don't know the details). Given these two things and the know-how, it is
possible to crack the secret key in under 1/2 second on a desktop machine.

Thus, if someone gets your secret key file and some signed messages, they
can get your secret key. From then on, all of your communications are toast,
and they can impersonate you at will.

Filksinger

"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@home.spamthis.com> wrote in message
news:pfj2ctsdeaqa6mkprscee1aq50u7jdgqbc@4ax.com...
> FS:    I'd like to hear bytor's comments on the ease of cracking
> older versions of PGP, `cause he has showed some interest in it in
> the past.  (PGP, not the ease of cracking).
>   I thought it was only the most recent versions of PGP that had
> anything to hide (like possible vulnerable spots).
>
> Ed J
>
> On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:10:13 -0800, "Filksinger"
> <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
>
> >According to two Czech cryptographers, all versions of PGP to date, plus
> >many related programs using the OpenPGP system, can be cracked with
little
> >more than a copy of the encrypted secret key file, which is often stored
> >where it can be easily reached due to its supposed security.
> >
> >This is pretty bad, though it could be worse. They have demonstrated it
on a
> >couple of OpenPGP programs, including PGP 7. Here's more info:
> >
> >http://www.icz.cz/en/onas/tisk4.html
> >
> >Filksinger
> >
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18894
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 22:16:04 GMT
Subject: Re: Bad News for PGP
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:02:36 -0800, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:

>Well, the ease of cracking PGP is still questionable.

I agree.

>Thus, if someone gets your secret key file and some signed messages, they
>can get your secret key. From then on, all of your communications are toast,
>and they can impersonate you at will.
>
But, with reasonably simple precautions, your keyfile should be secure
to anything but a file copy by logging onto a machine directly.  And
even then, I would think a utility like Windows 2000 EFS could hamper
efforts to steal a key.

I'm interested in that flaws are always interesting, but I'm not
really worried.  Of course, I don't use PGP for much yet.

JT

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18895
From: Eli Hestermann <Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 12:07:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Roll Call
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Hey, Bill, are you still interested in doing some hiking with us this
spring?  With any luck, we've seen the last of the snow, and Dani and I
really need to hit the trail.  Doing the Connecticut section of the AT
sounds like just the Spring training we need before heading up to
Vermont.

--
Eli V. Hestermann
Eli_Hestermann@dfci.harvard.edu
"Vita brevis est, ars longa."  -Seneca



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18896
From: ddavitt <ddavitt@netcom.ca>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 14:49:31 -0500
Subject: reminder
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Just to let you know that tonight and Saturday we have Joel
Rosenberg as a G of H on the Heinlein AIM chats. Tonight's chat
starts at 9.00 pm EST, saturday's is at 5.00 pm EST. If any of you
have read his books and would like the chance to discuss them with
him please feel free to drop by.
You will need to have AIM to join us in the chat room; full details
are here;
http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/heinlein.html

Jane


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18897
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 23:12:47 GMT
Subject: Medical Privacy at Risk in U.S.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

-----Original Message-----
Got this in my mailbox today, and I felt it was important enough to
write my congresscritters about.  FWIW to you all....   JT
****************************************************************************************

From: Libertarian Party Announcements [mailto:owner-announce@lp.org]
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 5:57 PM
To: announce@hq.lp.org
Subject: Release: Medical Privacy Campaign


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

===============================
NEWS FROM THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY
2600 Virginia Avenue, NW, Suite 100
Washington DC 20037
World Wide Web: http://www.LP.org
===============================
For release: March 28, 2001
===============================
For additional information:
George Getz, Press Secretary
Phone: (202) 333-0008 Ext. 222
E-Mail: pressreleases@hq.LP.org
===============================


Libertarians launch Internet campaign to thwart
government attack on medical privacy

WASHINGTON, DC --       Americans have less than three weeks to 
block a federal regulation that would require health care providers to

turn medical records over to the government -- which could then share 
them with third parties such as private marketers, police agencies,
and 
even foreign governments.

"If this regulation is approved, you can kiss your medical 
privacy good-bye," said Steve Dasbach, Libertarian Party national 
director. "Soon a prospective employer, local cop or even a nosy 
neighbor with a government job may know if you've ever undergone drug 
or alcohol treatment, had an abortion or contracted an embarrassing 
disease."

Dasbach announced that the Libertarian Party has launched an 
Internet campaign to kill the regulation, based on the party's 
successful effort to derail the FDIC's "Know Your Customer" bank
spying 
law in March, 1999. Americans can visit 
http://www.DefendYourPrivacy.com/ to send an e-mail petition asking 
their Congressional representative to block the regulation. 

By April 14, Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy 
Thompson must decide whether to implement the "medical privacy" rules 
submitted in the waning days of the Clinton administration. The rules,

published in the Federal Register on December 28, 2000, mandate that 
every doctor and health care provider turn patient records over to the

HHS and other federal agencies for "safekeeping" -- regardless of 
whether patients consent.

"If you like the way the government protected the confidentiality 
of your Social Security number, you're going to love the way it 
protects your medical records," Dasbach said. "The first step toward 
protecting your health data is to make sure the government doesn't
have 
it -- which is why we need to block this regulation immediately." 

Dasbach noted that the prestigious American Association of 
Physicians and Surgeons is also fighting the regulation, which the 
group says would "enable if not guarantee wholesale invasions of 
privacy." The letter, which documents section by section the problems 
with the regulation, can be viewed online at 
http://www.aapsonline.org/aaps/confiden/hhscounscomm.htm.

The regulation would:

* Allow the disclosure, without patient consent, of all medical 
records for "public health surveillance activities" and dozens of
other 
purposes. Providers could refuse to treat people who refuse to 
surrender their records.

* Permit police agencies to access medical records without a 
search warrant. 

* Give the government the right to access the private notes of a 
psychotherapist. 

* Allow foreign government officials to see Americans' health 
records, as long as the U.S. government claims it is doing it for a 
"national health purpose."

* Establish a "unique patient identifier" -- a number that would 
make accessing medical records as easy as reading an individual's 
credit history is now.

* Allow private insurance companies to access the medical 
information and compile it into a database. 

* Give direct marketers access to medical records, and allow 
pharmacies to share prescription records "for the purpose of marketing

health-related products and services" -- all without patient consent. 

* Prevent patients involved in health research projects from 
accessing their own medical records.

"If these proposals aren't stopped, your medical privacy will be 
in critical condition," Dasbach said. "Fortunately, there's a way to 
prevent them from going into effect -- but time is running out. Go to 
DefendYourPrivacy.com immediately and join the Libertarian Party's 
campaign. Protect your medical privacy by pulling the plug on these 
frightening new regulations."

Americans who visit the site will be able to send an e-mail to 
their Congressional representatives urging them to co-sponsor a House 
resolution that would block the rules. The measure, HJR 38, sponsored 
by U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, declares that the rules "shall have no

force or effect."

"Libertarians proved that e-mail is the musket of the 21st 
century when we flooded the FDIC with nearly 300,000 comments in 
February and March, 1999, forcing the agency to abandon its attack on 
Americans' financial privacy," Dasbach said.

"Now we intend to deploy that weapon again to thwart a raid on 
medical privacy, and we're all inviting all Americans to join us. What

part of the word 'privacy' doesn't the government understand?"

        

        

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Version: 2.6.2

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Libertarian Party
http://www.lp.org/
2600 Virginia Ave. NW, Suite 100                    voice:
202-333-0008
Washington DC 20037                                   fax:
202-333-0072
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18898
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 16:33:55 -0800
Subject: Re: Bad News for PGP
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"JT" <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in message
news:3ac261f2.416789010@news.sff.net...
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:02:36 -0800, "Filksinger"
> <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:
<snip>
> But, with reasonably simple precautions, your keyfile should be secure
> to anything but a file copy by logging onto a machine directly.  And
> even then, I would think a utility like Windows 2000 EFS could hamper
> efforts to steal a key.

Well, that would depend upon OS and other factors.

There are a number of ways to get into a system from the outside. They
depend upon OS, security holes and patches, Internet habits of the user,
etc. No matter what they are, the _do_ exist on the system you have now,
even if nobody knows yet what they are. So, no, you aren't necessarily safe
just because nobody has gotten to your machine physically.

The second problem is potentially much more severe.

Many users of PGP have every reason to believe that others have gained
access to their secret key file. People who email their secret key, for
example, can have it stolen. Many people have limited control over or
knowledge of who has had physical access to their machine. In fact, some
people have deliberately stored their private keys where they are easily
accessible. Thus, their enemies have copies already.

The secret keystore for PGP, _IF_ PGP encrypted it correctly, is safer in
the hands of your enemies than any computer on the Internet is. Computers on
the Internet _always_ have some way they can be compromised by an intruder.
No computer on the Internet is nearly as safe as that keystore would be,
_IF_ PGP had encrypted it properly. But it didn't, and now those files are
vulnerable.

> I'm interested in that flaws are always interesting, but I'm not
> really worried.  Of course, I don't use PGP for much yet.

I'm not particularly worried, either. But that's largely because I don't
think anyone is trying that hard to get at me, and because it isn't actually
important at this time if it does get compromised. If someone were after me,
then they might have a copy already, and can probably get one, if they are
determined and smart enough. I just don't believe in this evil hacker, and
he couldn't do me any real harm with that key if he did have it.

However, regardless of whether or not it is important to me, personally, it
is a _big_ flaw in PGP security. Much worse than any other flaw previously
discovered.

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18899
From: Penn Hackney <penn@att.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 23:11:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Roll Call
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Brian E. Scherrer wrote:
> 
> All;
> 
> It looks like it's that time again...  I promised earlier this week
[snip]
http://penn.home.att.net/personal.html

My first RAH was SIASL around 1966.  I'm a child of the art and
thought of RAH, Wm. Blake, and J.R.R. Tolkien, and of the sixties
cultural milieu.  Then I got co-opted (or is that corrupted) by
education.  

OBofftopic note:  Here is a test I found recently that I rather
failed:
http://www.betatesters.com/penn/litabuse.htm
-- 
Penn Hackney, Pittsburgh, PA
Men are born ignorant, not stupid. 
They are made stupid by education. 
http://www.betatesters.com/penn/wisdom02.htm#russell

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18900
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 22:09:24 GMT
Subject: Re: Roll Call
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 23:11:41 -0500, Penn Hackney <penn@att.net> wrote:
>Penn Hackney, Pittsburgh, PA
>Men are born ignorant, not stupid. 
>They are made stupid by education. 
>http://www.betatesters.com/penn/wisdom02.htm#russell

Hi Penn! 

I don't think I've seen you around much, but I took a look at some of
your web pages and I think you share some common interests with
different folks here.  Don't let the reduced output of late fool
you--we can talk your eyes off here, if sufficiently motivated. ;)

JT



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18901
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 30 Mar 2001 22:50:23 GMT
Subject: Interesting Bibliophile Site
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Here's an interesting site for the bibliophiles in this group. (Who, us?)
www.invisiblelibrary.com. It consists entirely of books that are mentioned
in other books, but never written. For example, "Chaldean Roots in the Ancient
Cornish Language", by Sherlock Holmes, mentioned by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
in "The Adventure of the Devil's Foot".

Filksinger
AKA David Nasset, Sr.

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18902
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 30 Mar 2001 23:09:47 GMT
Subject: The End of the Internet
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Here it is, folks. The End of the Internet is upon us.

http://www.opaldata.com/the_end/

Filksinger

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18903
From: bobl@nospam.giantsfan.com (Bob Lawson)
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 02:38:05 GMT
Subject: Re: The End of the Internet
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Not bad, it made me chuckle.
Bob
bobl@deletethis.bluepoet.com

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18904
From: ddavitt <ddavitt@netcom.ca>
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 22:00:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Interesting Bibliophile Site
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

filksinger@earthling.net wrote:

> Here's an interesting site for the bibliophiles in this group. (Who, us?)
> www.invisiblelibrary.com. It consists entirely of books that are mentioned
> in other books, but never written. For example, "Chaldean Roots in the Ancient
> Cornish Language", by Sherlock Holmes, mentioned by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> in "The Adventure of the Devil's Foot".
>
> Filksinger
> AKA David Nasset, Sr.

I love it! But why no Heinlein's? I can think of a few; the book Max is reading at
the start of Starman Jones, the poetry published by Dak of Double Star...was the
book Don got from the booklegger in Between Planets real?

If Herbert is on the list then Heinlein should be too.

Jane



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18905
From: ddavitt <ddavitt@netcom.ca>
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 22:29:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Interesting Bibliophile Site
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

ddavitt wrote:

>
> I love it! But why no Heinlein's? I can think of a few; the book Max is reading at
> the start of Starman Jones, the poetry published by Dak of Double Star...was the
> book Don got from the booklegger in Between Planets real?
>
>

Oops; it was on the banned list but Don got it from his father; just to forestall the
nitpickers. :-) I also thought of a few more by other authors and I've sent off an
email to the site. Probably more by Heinlein too...

Jane



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18906
From: Dean White" <WhiteD@telepath.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 17:53:11 -0500
Subject: NPR story about using the moon for advertising
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Just heard a piece on NPR Sunday Edition on a using the Moon as a
billboard for advertising and flashed back to 'The Man Who Sold the Moon'
short story.

NPR's story used good technobabble to display the pictures on the Moon to
make it sound more reasonable, a good April fools joke.

--
          Dean White
www.DeanWhite.net



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18907
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 15:41:22 -0700
Subject: Re: Bad News for PGP
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:3abff68e.0@news.sff.net...
> According to two Czech cryptographers, all versions of PGP to date,
plus
> many related programs using the OpenPGP system, can be cracked with
little
> more than a copy of the encrypted secret key file, which is often
stored
> where it can be easily reached due to its supposed security.

I have more information.

Apparently, PGP has _not_ been cracked, as far as opening messages
goes. Instead, someone has found a way to tamper with your secret key
so that, when you sign a document, the attacker can use that document
and that secret keyfile to sign further documents _with your key_.
However, he never obtains a copy of your key, and thus cannot decrypt
messages sent to you.

He can, however, impersonate you. Since most people do not rely
heavily on PGP to identify themselves to people, this isn't as bad.
For those who do, however, it could be very bad.

Here's more information:
http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,42553,00.html

Here's technical information:
http://www.i.cz/en/pdf/openPGP_attack_ENGvktr.pdf

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18908
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 21:54:56 -0700
Subject: Privacy Policy
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Well, at least they are honest.

http://www.2meta.com/privacy/

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18909
Article no longer available
------------------------------------------------------------

Article 18910
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 22:04:45 -0700
Subject: New Pope?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Looks like the papal race is heating up!

http://www.theonion.com/onion3711/cardinals_blasted.html

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18911
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 22:25:47 -0700
Subject: Important Warning!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


From: partl@hp01.boku.ac.at (Partl)
Newsgroups: news.newusers.questions,news.admin.misc
Subject: *** George W. Bush on April 1st ***
Date: 01 Apr 2001 07:27:33 GMT
Organization: The White House
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <3l8dp5$gc2@mail.boku.ac.at>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hp01.boku.ac.at

George W. Bush <president@whitehouse.gov> wrote:

  Path:
mail.boku.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!news.iif.hu!vax.kremlin.su!news
  From: George W. Bush<president@whitehouse.gov>
  Subject: April 1st Warning
  Date: 1 Apr 2001 08:37:08 GMT
  Organization: The White House
  Message-ID: <3ku0bk$pt4@vax.kremlin.su>
  NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.244.129.2

  Net Citizens of the World!

  As the president of one of the countries that are connected
  by the international information highway, I believe it is my
  responsibility to save the world from the danger of being
  April-fooled by false Usenet postings. It has been brought
  to my attention that certain unfriendly computer specialists
  know ways to send forged postings, and that therefore every
  citizen of the net should be careful not to trust everything
  that appears on the net.

  Readers should be especially suspicious

  - if an article is attributed to a very famous person,

  - if the host names in the From:, Path:, and Message-ID: header
    lines of an article do not match, or

  - if an article contains a reference to the first day of April.

  Let me take this opportunity to express the gratitude of my
  country to Dr. Hubert Partl in Australia, who was so kind to
  inform me about the old Usenet tradition of forged postings
  around April 1st, and who sent me instructions on how to write
  and to post this article.

  Long live the net!
              George W. Bush
              president@whitehouse.gov
              Washington DC








------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18912
From: ddavitt <ddavitt@netcom.ca>
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:58:43 -0400
Subject: To all library users
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

I posted this on afh so if you've already read it there, stop now!

As you may know, The Heinlein Society is now formed, more
people are
becoming members every day, projects are being organised and
I'm
chair of the library committee. Take a look at the new web
site at
http://heinleinsociety.org/

Some of you may be members already, some might be thinking
about it,
some might wish us well but don't want to join. This message
is for
people in any of these categories.
The aims of the library section are simple; to get Heinlein
books on
library shelves. There's work to be done on a large scale
but this
is the kind of project that is only going to work if there
is also
grass roots support and that means all of you on this news
group.

So what am I asking you to do in those 5 minutes?  ( Well,
it's
probably more than that but not much more, honest). I would
really
appreciate it if you would take a moment the next time
you're in
your local library or any place that has books for loan,
hospitals,
schools and such, and see how many Heinlein books they have
and
which ones. Bear in mind that not all catalogues list
paperbacks but
you should get an idea. If they have them and they're out;
great!
That means they're safe from being weeded out for a while.
If
they're on the shelf, check them out and then return them as
quickly
as possible. If the library sees that they're in demand,
they will
keep them and if they become damaged through use they will
replace
them.

You only need to do this twice a year to keep the books from
the
sale bins or the recycling. I work in a library as a
volunteer and
yes, they do just throw some books away.

That's the easy part. If you do that then you've done a lot.
If you
want to go a step further, drop me a line via the link on
the
Society's web page to tell me what titles there were. If you
didn't
find any or not the ones that you think should be there, so
that
others can have the chance to discover Heinlein as we all
did, then
request them. The library will get them through inter
library loan
or maybe even purchase them for you. Usually this is free.

 It's not every day you get a chance to help pay it forward.
If the
eleven year old girl that was me had walked into the library
twenty
five years ago and Have Space Suit wasn't there on the
shelves to
catch my eye I may never have started to read SF. My life
would have
been the poorer for it. I want those books there for other
children
to discover.

Thank you for reading this.

Jane Davitt
for
The Heinlein Society, Library Section.






------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18913
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 15:52:26 -0700
Subject: I Wish This Were April Fools
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_256227.html?

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18914
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 18:21:14 -0700
Subject: Face Generator
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Here's a couple of interesting toys. They allow you to create a composite
drawing to create a face. Unfortunately, one only runs in IE and only gives
white people, and the other only allows cartoon faces.

http://www.facegenerator.com
http://spaghoops.com/idk/idkhuman.html

Filksinger




------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18915
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 18:38:35 -0700
Subject: Prodigal.com Son Returns!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

http://www.satirewire.com/features/prodigal.shtml



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18916
From: Bill Dauphin <dauphinb@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 00:05:24 -0500
Subject: Free to a Good Home
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

All:

I recently purchased the 3rd and 4th books of Michael Flynn's _Firestar_
series (_Lodestar_ and _Falling Stars_, respectively) through the SF
Book Club, and it turned out that the cheapest way for me to get
_Lodestar_ was to buy it as part of a double-selection with _Rogue
Star_, which I already owned. Soooooo, I now have an extra copy of
_Rogue Star_, brand new book-club hardback, that I will give to the
first person who e-mails me to ask for it, free except for the cost of
postage.

-JovBill


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18917
From: Bill Dauphin <dauphinb@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 00:09:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Forum Hugo Nominations
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum



georule wrote:

> I'm going to allow the Forum to fill out my [Hugo] ballot for me, at least 4
> in
> each catagory (can do 5, but I reserve 1 of each for my own choice), and if
> there are at least 5 different replies to this email I will consider the
> results binding and it really will be a Forum vote.

Geo, this thread sort of petered out online, but you may have gotten other
responses offline. Care to share with us what you finally ended up submitting?

-JovBill


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18918
From: LORRITA  MORGAN" <lorrita-m@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 00:02:36 -0700
Subject: Web Host Advice, Please
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

I've got a couple months before I need to make any decisions, but the head
librarian and I want to start a web site for the church.  (I'm the rest of
the library staff and what passes for the internet geek on the church staff)

I know that some of you have your own domains and pages with flash,
streaming audio and video, secure order forms, and other neato-spiffy stuff.
I barely have a free page.

I am opposed to setting up our church's site on a host where we can't
control the pop up ads.  So that excludes free sites unless you know of a
host that doesn't allow gambling, credit card, or other
get-rich-quick/avoid-paying-your-bills while we take all your money ads or
ads for "dating" services or...   Our budget would be minimal $100-200
annually.


--
Later,

`rita
Almost live from Finley, WA.



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18919
From: debrule@jps.net (Deb Houdek Rule)
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 19:40:22 GMT
Subject: Re: Web Host Advice, Please
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

`rita--
  My domains are on GoDaddy.com ( http://www.godaddy.com ). 50mb for
about $9.95 per month. 


Deb  (D.A. Houdek) 
http://www.dahoudek.com
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18920
From: bobl@nospam.giantsfan.com (Bob Lawson)
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 23:35:53 GMT
Subject: Re: Web Host Advice, Please
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


>host that doesn't allow gambling, credit card, or other
Just out of curiousity, may I ask what the objection to credit cards
is? If it's none of my business say so and I certainly won't be
offended.

Bob
bobl@deletethis.bluepoet.com

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18921
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:27:35 GMT
Subject: Re: Privacy Policy
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Sun, 1 Apr 2001 21:54:56 -0700, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:

>Well, at least they are honest.
>
>http://www.2meta.com/privacy/
>
>Filksinger

This was the best of the lot, Filk.  You must have had more time on
your hands this week for web-browsing. ;)

JT

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18922
From: LORRITA  MORGAN" <lorrita-m@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 21:04:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Web Host Advice, Please
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

The whole easy credit thing is trouble.  It offers a false way out of
financial trouble usually by putting you deeper in debt.  It is not
something a Southern Baptist church (or any church) should be associated
with.  Our pastor preaches on stewardship quite often and it is NOT good
stewardship (or money management in general) to over use credit.

While credit cards  are a necessity of life these days especially online we
don't want to give the impression of promoting indebtedness.  I personally
use a name brand debit card (check card) rather a real credit card.

--
Later,

`rita
Almost live from Finley, WA.
"Bob Lawson" <bobl@nospam.giantsfan.com> wrote in message
news:3aca5e2f.1614559@news.sff.net...
>
> >host that doesn't allow gambling, credit card, or other
> Just out of curiousity, may I ask what the objection to credit cards
> is? If it's none of my business say so and I certainly won't be
> offended.
>
> Bob
> bobl@deletethis.bluepoet.com
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18923
From: LORRITA  MORGAN" <lorrita-m@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 21:07:05 -0700
Subject: Re: Web Host Advice, Please
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Thanks Deb.  I took a look, read about half the legalese, and put
GoDaddy.com in a favorites folder.


--
Later,

`rita
Almost live from Finley, WA.
"Deb Houdek Rule" <debrule@jps.net> wrote in message
news:3aca268a.320007@NEWS.SFF.NET...
> `rita--
>   My domains are on GoDaddy.com ( http://www.godaddy.com ). 50mb for
> about $9.95 per month.
>
>
> Deb  (D.A. Houdek)
> http://www.dahoudek.com
> http://www.civilwarstlouis.com
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18924
From: Deanna S. Higginbotham" <ke4lfg@amsat.org>
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 06:30:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Web Host Advice, Please
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

'rita--

    Would free hosting with 6MB, no banner ads, free site builder (very easy
to use), and the ability to transfer to another host if you want do what you
need?  Take a look at www.homestead.com.  The only ad is a small bar at the
bottom for Homestead.  The site builder does most of what I want, with a few
limitations, and any klutz (me) can use it.

    I am trying to put together a site, and Homestead has been very easy to
use.  What is slowing me down is not the site building stuff--theirs is very
easy with drag & drop elements.  Its just taking me some time to put
together content that is suitable and useful for non-lawyers.

    It's a little slow loading the sitebuilder and editing, but the site is
quick enough.  If you want to see my work-in-progress, go to
www.dothanlaw.homestead.com.

    Go.Daddy, that Deb mentioned, is the best price for domain names that I
have seen.  Your ISP may provide free (i.e. yo already pay for it in your
basic fee) space.
--Dee



LORRITA MORGAN <lorrita-m@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3ac97678.0@news.sff.net...
> I've got a couple months before I need to make any decisions, but the head
> librarian and I want to start a web site for the church.
> I am opposed to setting up our church's site on a host where we can't
> control the pop up ads.  Our budget would be minimal $100-200
> annually.





------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18925
From: Deanna S. Higginbotham" <ke4lfg@amsat.org>
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 06:32:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Web Host Advice, Please
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

'rita--

    Be sure to check the terms of your debit card--it may not offer the same
protections for online- or mail-ordering.  Since it is a direct debit from
our account, you may not have the ability to challenge charges,

--Dee2

LORRITA MORGAN <lorrita-m@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3aca9e2c.0@news.sff.net...
> While credit cards  are a necessity of life these days especially online
we
> don't want to give the impression of promoting indebtedness.  I personally
> use a name brand debit card (check card) rather a real credit card.




------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18926
From: David Wright" <maikosht@alltel.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:03:48 -0400
Subject: Late Discussion Log: Apologies
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

My apologies to everyone. I have not been able to get the Discussion log for
Saturday night's meeting posted yet. The previous weekend was filled with a
number of time-consuming events and I had to go to a meeting the on Monday
and Tuesday. I hope to have it posted this evening (Wednesday).

Again my apologies for the delay.

David Wright



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18927
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:21:40 -0700
Subject: Re: Web Host Advice, Please
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

"LORRITA MORGAN" <lorrita-m@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3ac97678.0@news.sff.net...
> I've got a couple months before I need to make any decisions, but the head
> librarian and I want to start a web site for the church.  (I'm the rest of
> the library staff and what passes for the internet geek on the church
staff)
<snip>

Does the church or pastor have an Internet account? If so, there is probably
webspace attached to it.

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18928
From: LORRITA  MORGAN" <lorrita-m@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 15:04:28 -0700
Subject: Re: Web Host Advice, Please
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

I'm aware of the problems with debit cards.  My income level precludes from
shopping around.  I have the best protection my credit union can give me.


--
Later,

`rita
Almost live from Finley, WA.
"Deanna S. Higginbotham" <ke4lfg@amsat.org> wrote in message
news:3acb07d9.0@news.sff.net...
> 'rita--
>
>     Be sure to check the terms of your debit card--it may not offer the
same
> protections for online- or mail-ordering.  Since it is a direct debit from
> our account, you may not have the ability to challenge charges,
>
> --Dee2
>




------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18929
From: LORRITA  MORGAN" <lorrita-m@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 15:05:45 -0700
Subject: Re: Web Host Advice, Please
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Homestead goes on the list.  Nice start to your page.


--
Later,

`rita
Almost live from Finley, WA.
"Deanna S. Higginbotham" <ke4lfg@amsat.org> wrote in message
news:3acb0758.0@news.sff.net...
> 'rita--
>
>     Would free hosting with 6MB, no banner ads, free site builder (very
easy
> to use), and the ability to transfer to another host if you want do what
you
> need?  Take a look at www.homestead.com.  The only ad is a small bar at
the
> bottom for Homestead.  The site builder does most of what I want, with a
few
> limitations, and any klutz (me) can use it.
>
>     I am trying to put together a site, and Homestead has been very easy
to
> use.  What is slowing me down is not the site building stuff--theirs is
very
> easy with drag & drop elements.  Its just taking me some time to put
> together content that is suitable and useful for non-lawyers.
>
>     It's a little slow loading the sitebuilder and editing, but the site
is
> quick enough.  If you want to see my work-in-progress, go to
> www.dothanlaw.homestead.com.
>
>     Go.Daddy, that Deb mentioned, is the best price for domain names that
I
> have seen.  Your ISP may provide free (i.e. yo already pay for it in your
> basic fee) space.
> --Dee




------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18930
From: Deanna S. Higginbotham" <ke4lfg@amsat.org>
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 06:46:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Web Host Advice, Please
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

'rita--

    Yeah, I sometimes use the deit card for orders just for the
convenience--no bill to dal with later.  But it is one more good reason to
order only from established, reliable firms.

--Dee2


LORRITA MORGAN <lorrita-m@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3acb9b18.0@news.sff.net...
> I'm aware of the problems with debit cards.  My income level precludes
from
> shopping around.  I have the best protection my credit union can give me.




------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18931
From: Deanna S. Higginbotham" <ke4lfg@amsat.org>
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 07:02:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Web Host Advice, Please
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

'rita--

    Thanks.  As far as I know, you are the first to visit.  (I haven't tried
to get visitors yet because it is so very incomplete.)  I am working on
sections to eplain in general terms the procedure involved in various types
of cases, a little of the vocabulary, some safety planning information
regarding domestic violence, some information regarding criminal penalties
and traffic tickets, and whatever else sounds really good as I have time.

    I still need to finish  some links in what is already there, and do a
bit of cleanup--check for typos, improve the layout, etc.  The only
disappointment I have had so far with Homestead is that the layout is not
exactly the same from the editing page to the actual page, and it may change
again from viewing the pge to printing it.  Minor stuff, but it can be more
time-consiming.  Not as time-consuming as learning HML, I guess.

    I would love to hear from you if you have any good ideas for inclusion.
I want to provide information that is interesting to potential clients, and
dense enough to be worth coming back to but not so "lawyerese" as to be
intimidating.

--Dee2

LORRITA MORGAN <lorrita-m@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3acb9b19.0@news.sff.net...
> Homestead goes on the list.  Nice start to your page.




------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18932
From: William Jennings" <gwilliam@sff.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:03:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Web Host Advice, Please
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Disclaimer: I do not use any of these services, so can't comment on their
reliability, but they claim to be Christian Web Hosting entities. Some are
free, some aren't, but you probably wouldn't be subjected to unacceptable
pop up ads, etc.

http://www.christianwebhost.com/

http://www.truepath.com/

http://www.acts2.com/

http://www.christianwebhosting.net/

http://www.churchserve.com/

http://www.smalltown-usa.net/

It might be helpful to check into web hosts who also offer affilate
programs; your Church could offer web hosting to parishioners to cover
costs.

You could also visit other Christian sites, many have a link to their web
host.  The Trinity Broadcast Network has an address book that links to the
various web sites of their many programs:

http://www.tbn.org/links/AddressBook/index.htm

A good web hosting service will have customer testimonials, and/or links to
customers; you can get feedback from them.

Good luck.

Will
--
aka "geeairmoe2"  on Heinlein Chat on Instant Messenger.
8-11 Central Thursdays, 4-7 Central Saturdays

Show me the Constitutional requirement for me to suffer
fools lightly before you expect me to adhere to your
peculiar notions of tolerance.

news://news.sff.net/sff.people.gwilliam


LORRITA MORGAN wrote in message <3ac97678.0@news.sff.net>...
>I've got a couple months before I need to make any decisions, but the head
>librarian and I want to start a web site for the church.  (I'm the rest of
>the library staff and what passes for the internet geek on the church
staff)
>
>I know that some of you have your own domains and pages with flash,
>streaming audio and video, secure order forms, and other neato-spiffy
stuff.
>I barely have a free page.
>
>I am opposed to setting up our church's site on a host where we can't
>control the pop up ads.  So that excludes free sites unless you know of a
>host that doesn't allow gambling, credit card, or other
>get-rich-quick/avoid-paying-your-bills while we take all your money ads or
>ads for "dating" services or...   Our budget would be minimal $100-200
>annually.
>
>
>--
>Later,
>
>`rita
>Almost live from Finley, WA.
>
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18933
From: David Wright" <dwrigsr@alltel.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 12:29:38 -0400
Subject: Discussion Log For Saturday Night 3/31/01 Heinlein Readers Group now available
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Finally!

The Discussion Log for the Saturday Night 3/31/01 5:00 PM EST meeting of the
Heinlein Readers Group is now available:

http://dwrighsr.tripod.com/heinlein/JR_AIM_03-31-2001.html

Again my apologies for taking so long with this one.

--
Related Heinlein Web Pages

http://www.heinleinsociety.org/

http://readinggroupsonline.com/group/robertaheinlein.html

http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/heinlein.html



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18934
From: Frank Fujita" <ffujita@iusb.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:30:46 -0500
Subject: Destination Moon
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

I saw this on Turner Classic Movies, March of Oscar, since it won some
special effects, and decided to purchase the DVD.  I had hoped to see it in
its original widescreen format, but there isn't any widescreen format
available on the Disk (in fact there is no additional material at all).  I
was wondering if someone could enlighten me.

Was Destination Moon shot at a 4:3 aspect ratio?  If not, why was the DVD
published that way?  Thanks,

Frank Fujita



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18935
From: bobl@nospam.giantsfan.com (Bob Lawson)
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 03:59:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Destination Moon
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

It appears that it was indeed 4:3. see
http://us.imdb.com/Technical?0042393
>Was Destination Moon shot at a 4:3 aspect ratio?  If not, why was the DVD
>published that way?  Thanks,
>
>Frank Fujita
>
>

Bob
bobl@deletethis.bluepoet.com

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18936
From: LORRITA  MORGAN" <lorrita-m@prodigy.net>
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:48:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Web Host Advice, Please
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

I will check them out.  Thank You.  I hadn't thought of TBN, frankly Jan and
Paul scare me half the time.


--
Later,

`rita
Almost live from Finley, WA.
"William Jennings" <gwilliam@sff.net> wrote in message
news:3acc9742.0@news.sff.net...
> Disclaimer: I do not use any of these services, so can't comment on their
> reliability, but they claim to be Christian Web Hosting entities. Some are
> free, some aren't, but you probably wouldn't be subjected to unacceptable
> pop up ads, etc.
>
> http://www.christianwebhost.com/
>
> http://www.truepath.com/
>
> http://www.acts2.com/
>
> http://www.christianwebhosting.net/
>
> http://www.churchserve.com/
>
> http://www.smalltown-usa.net/
>
> It might be helpful to check into web hosts who also offer affilate
> programs; your Church could offer web hosting to parishioners to cover
> costs.
>
> You could also visit other Christian sites, many have a link to their web
> host.  The Trinity Broadcast Network has an address book that links to the
> various web sites of their many programs:
>
> http://www.tbn.org/links/AddressBook/index.htm
>
> A good web hosting service will have customer testimonials, and/or links
to
> customers; you can get feedback from them.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Will
> --
> aka "geeairmoe2"  on Heinlein Chat on Instant Messenger.
> 8-11 Central Thursdays, 4-7 Central Saturdays
>
> Show me the Constitutional requirement for me to suffer
> fools lightly before you expect me to adhere to your
> peculiar notions of tolerance.
>
> news://news.sff.net/sff.people.gwilliam
>
>
> LORRITA MORGAN wrote in message <3ac97678.0@news.sff.net>...
> >I've got a couple months before I need to make any decisions, but the
head
> >librarian and I want to start a web site for the church.  (I'm the rest
of
> >the library staff and what passes for the internet geek on the church
> staff)
> >
> >I know that some of you have your own domains and pages with flash,
> >streaming audio and video, secure order forms, and other neato-spiffy
> stuff.
> >I barely have a free page.
> >
> >I am opposed to setting up our church's site on a host where we can't
> >control the pop up ads.  So that excludes free sites unless you know of a
> >host that doesn't allow gambling, credit card, or other
> >get-rich-quick/avoid-paying-your-bills while we take all your money ads
or
> >ads for "dating" services or...   Our budget would be minimal $100-200
> >annually.
> >
> >
> >--
> >Later,
> >
> >`rita
> >Almost live from Finley, WA.
> >
> >
> >
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18937
From: William Jennings" <gwilliam@sff.net>
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 22:06:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Web Host Advice, Please
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

LORRITA MORGAN wrote in message <3acdf450.0@news.sff.net>...
>I will check them out.  Thank You.  I hadn't thought of TBN, frankly Jan
and
>Paul scare me half the time.
>

After the disappointment of Jim and Tammy Faye messing up PTL, the first
time my mother saw Jan, all heavily made up Tammy Faye-like, she cried out:
"You've got to be kidding me!"

Will
--
aka "geeairmoe2"  on Heinlein Chat on Instant Messenger.
8-11 Central Thursdays, 4-7 Central Saturdays






------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18938
From: Charles Graft <chasgraft@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 12:44:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Destination Moon
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Frank--

     Yes, the original was done in 4:3 format.  "Destination Moon" came
out in 1950 and as such, predated all widescreen formats; the first of
which was CinemaScope, which came out in 1953.  ("The Robe" was the
first cinemascope feature.)

     Someone once protested this movie being colorized because of the
faded colors.  This is not the case; see RAH's writing on the difficulty
of achieving sharp focus for the background stars because the blue color
strip was a slightly different focus plane from the others.

     I have the DVD and highly recommend it.  It looks even better than
the (16 mm) strip that ML got for us and showed in his theater during
the 1993 gathering.

--
<<Big Charlie>>

"Computers make it easier to do a lot of things, but most of the things
they make it easier to do don't need to be done."  -- Andy Rooney



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18939
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 09:56:37 GMT
Subject: E-mail Changing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

I'm going to be leaving AOL shortly, if anybody wants my new e-mail
address, then e-mail me (fader555@aol.com) & I'll send you the new
one.

Fader

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18940
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 10:03:16 GMT
Subject: Two Birds
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Both of these have come up in the not too distant past.

I was reading the new Bester collection (ReDemolished") yesterday, &
in the intro it was saying how Bester wrote for comics, apparently one
of the ones he wrote for, was the original Green Lantern. Seems that
he wrote the Oath.

Thot some of you might find it interesting.

Fader

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18941
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 14:34:59 -0700
Subject: Job Listing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

For all of you who are looking, here's a job that might interest you.

http://www.headhunter.net/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.asp?did=J26K66D0YJBB4DWP
WJ

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18942
From: David Wright" <dwrigsr@alltel.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 18:58:49 -0400
Subject: L. Neil Smith to be Guest Author at Heinlein Readers Group May 10 & 12
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

L. Neil Smith, author of 'The Probability Broach', 'The Venus Belt',
'Their Majesties Bucketeers', 'The Gallatin Divergence', 'Brightsuit
MacBear' and a number of other novels, has graciously consented to be
Guest Author at the Thursday May 10th and Saturday May 12th meeting of
the Heinlein Readers Group.

The meetings take place using AOL's Instant Messenger (AIM) program
which can be downloaded free-of-charge from AOL's web site. The URL for
this site and more instruction on joining the discussion can be found
at:

http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/heinlein_1.html

Please come and welcome Neil.

The next meeting on Thursday April 12 at 9:00 P.M. EDT and Saturday
April 14 at 5:00 P.M. EDT will feature a discussion of 'The Moon is A
Harsh Mistress'. See alt.fan.heinlein for a number of pre-discussion
postings on the subject.

Please note the new address for 'The Heinlein Society' web page below.
--
Related Heinlein Web Pages

http://www.heinleinsociety.org/

http://readinggroupsonline.com/group/robertaheinlein.html

http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/heinlein.html




------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18943
From: Bill Dauphin <"dauphinb"@ix.netcom.com@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 18:56:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Job Listing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

So, did you apply?  ;^)

Filksinger wrote:

> For all of you who are looking, here's a job that might interest you.
>
> http://www.headhunter.net/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.asp?did=J26K66D0Y
> BB4DWPWJ
>
> Filksinger


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18944
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 17:25:59 -0700
Subject: Re: Job Listing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

"Bill Dauphin" <"dauphinb"@ix.netcom.com@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3ad39cd5.0@news.sff.net...
> So, did you apply?  ;^)

Not yet. I'm at work, and they disapprove of that sort of stuff on company
time.:)

However, when I get home....

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18945
From: Gordon G. Sollars <gsollars@pobox.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:01:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Job Listing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

In article <3ad37c8a.0@news.sff.net>, Filksinger writes...
> For all of you who are looking, here's a job that might interest you.
> 
> http://www.headhunter.net/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.asp?did=J26K66D0YJBB4DWP
> WJ
> 
> Filksinger

Damn!!  I miss the flying requirement by just seconds!! 

-- 
Gordon Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18946
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:14:27 -0700
Subject: Re: Job Listing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"Gordon G. Sollars" <gsollars@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.153e7429e9b42a0a989773@news.sff.net...
> In article <3ad37c8a.0@news.sff.net>, Filksinger writes...
> > For all of you who are looking, here's a job that might interest you.
> >
> >
http://www.headhunter.net/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.asp?did=J26K66D0YJBB4DWP
> > WJ
> >
> > Filksinger
>
> Damn!!  I miss the flying requirement by just seconds!!

Starting from the correct spot in Seattle, I believe I can make the flying
requirement. However, I have been told that I am also required to make the
landing without someone else catching me.:)

Filksinger




------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18947
From: Bill Dauphin <"dauphinb"@ix.netcom.com@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:42:00 -0500
Subject: Pass the Ammunition
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

All:

I *just about* had the Domestic Goddess convinced that we should spend
(part of) our tax refund on a new computer when it dawned on her
(actually, I let it slip) that we already have a 56k modem, just like
the new machine would have (no reasonable broadband service in our area
yet), and the only real gripe she has about our current system is slow
Web browsing.

Soooo... one of you computer experts out there please help me out: Can I
honestly promise her that her Web experience will be noticeably better,
even given the same modem speed, on a 466 MHz PowerMac G4 (384 Mb RAM, 1
Mb L2 cache) running IE <latest version> under MacOX 9.1 (or MacOS X)
than it currently is on our 180 MHz PowerPC 603e-based PowerBase machine
(64 Mb RAM, ??? cache) running Netscape Communicator 4.7 under MacOS
8.0? I really want to be able to tell her she'll really love this new
machine... but I *really* don't want to lie to her about it. Can anyone
offer me hope?

-JovBill


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18948
From: Gordon G. Sollars <gsollars@pobox.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:28:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Pass the Ammunition
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

In article <3ad4eaf7.0@news.sff.net>, Bill Dauphin 
<"dauphinb"@ix.netcom.com@ix.netcom.com> writes...
> All:
> 
> I *just about* had the Domestic Goddess convinced that we should spend
> (part of) our tax refund on a new computer when it dawned on her

"Part of"?!?  Bill you don't need computer advice so much as advice about 
not giving large, interest-free loans to the U.S. Treasury.  ;-)
....
> I really want to be able to tell her she'll really love this new
> machine... but I *really* don't want to lie to her about it. Can anyone
> offer me hope?

A lie is a falsehood told with the /intent/ to deceive.  You were on firm 
ground /before/ you asked for help; armed with the real dope, you might 
have to lie to tell her that.  ;-)

-- 
Gordon Sollars,
whose computer knowledge is way out of date, but whose advice is up to 
the minute.

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18949
From: bobl@nospam.giantsfan.com (Bob Lawson)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 05:36:52 GMT
Subject: an aside...
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Upon considering the fact that many denizens of this board frequent
the American Northwest, I thought that they might be ever so slightly
interested in knowing that my choir shall be singing in some of these
areas. Namely, Meadowglade OR, Gresham OR, Portland OR, Victoria
British Columbia, and Brentwood B.C.. (Is the second period required?)
We'll also be milling about in the areas in between (most notably
Seattle). The trip is from May 1-6, if anyone has any interest in
coming out and saying hi (I, personally, am rather restricted in my
movements) please email me and I'll provide a more detailed itinerary.

Bob
bobl@bluepoet.com
Bob
bobl@deletethis.bluepoet.com

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18950
From: Bill Dauphin <"dauphinb"@ix.netcom.com@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 01:04:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Pass the Ammunition
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum



"Gordon G. Sollars" wrote:

> > ...we should spend
> > (part of) our tax refund on a new computer when it dawned on her
>
> "Part of"?!?  Bill you don't need computer advice so much as advice about
> not giving large, interest-free loans to the U.S. Treasury.  ;-)

I suppose I could claim that it's just an accident of my peculiar
circumstances this tax year: Moving expenses, some reimbursed and some not;
cash bonus for moving; sold a house; bought a house; almost tripled my
property tax rate midyear; moved from a state with no income tax to one with
an income tax... I mean, who could plan through all that, right? In fact,
though, I habitually and deliberately over-withhold, because the absolute
certainty of *getting* a check at tax time instead of *writing* a check is
worth more to me than the paltry little bit of interest I'd realize if I cut
it closer. YMMV. I make my budget based on take-home pay, and our tax refund
becomes an "unexpected" windfall. That's what makes it possible for me to
even be *thinking* about buying a new machine.

> A lie is a falsehood told with the /intent/ to deceive.  You were on firm
> ground /before/ you asked for help; armed with the real dope, you might
> have to lie ...

Yeah, don't ask the question if you can't stand the answer, right? But in
this case, if she gets unpleasantly surprised by the new machine, I'll be in
deep pie whether it's consider a "lie" or just a foul-up. Much better not to
misrepresent the situation, even "honestly."

-JovBill


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18951
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 08:41:06 GMT
Subject: Re: E-mail Changing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 09:56:37 GMT, fader555@aol.com (Fader) wrote:

>I'm going to be leaving AOL shortly, if anybody wants my new e-mail
>address, then e-mail me (fader555@aol.com) & I'll send you the new
>one.
>
Two so far, any other takers ??

Fader


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18952
From: Bill Dauphin <"dauphinb"@ix.netcom.com@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:19:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Free to a Good Home
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum



Bill Dauphin wrote:

> I now have an extra copy of
> _Rogue Star_, brand new book-club hardback, that I will give to the
> first person who e-mails me to ask for it, free except for the cost of
> postage.

Just to let everyone know, this is still available. I know it's not
Heinlein, but Flynn's series is a pretty decent read (I've just finished
the third book, _Lodestar_, and am halfway through the final one, _Falling
Stars_). Could it be that nobody wants it because y'all have all already
read it?

-JovBill



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18953
From: David Wright" <maikosht@alltel.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:23:50 -0400
Subject: Re: AIM RG The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

A reminder to everyone. The Heinlein Readers Group will meet this evening
Thursday April 12, 2001 at 9:00 P.M. EDT using AOL's Instant Messenger
Program (AIM) and Saturday April 14, 2001 at 5:00 P.M. EDT. This software is
available free-of-charge from AOL's  Download Site at:
http://www.aol.com/aim/.

More information on joining the group is available at:
http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/heinlein_1.html

The subject for the meetings this evening and Saturday evening is "The Moon
is A Harsh Mistress"

Please don't hesitate to send any questions you might have to
dwrighsr@alltel.net

Looking forward to having you join us.

David Wright



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18954
From: ddavitt <ddavitt@netcom.ca>
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:32:46 -0400
Subject: Re: E-mail Changing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Fader wrote:

> On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 09:56:37 GMT, fader555@aol.com (Fader) wrote:
>
> >I'm going to be leaving AOL shortly, if anybody wants my new e-mail
> >address, then e-mail me (fader555@aol.com) & I'll send you the new
> >one.
> >
> Two so far, any other takers ??
>
> Fader

Well, I just figured I'd wait for your first post with the new address
and then I'd have it...or am I missing something?

Jane



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18955
From: David M. Silver" <agplusone@loop.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:25:16 -0700
Subject: Re: Pass the Ammunition
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Bill Dauphin wrote:

> All:
>
> [snip]
>
> Soooo... one of you computer experts out there please help me out: Can I
> honestly promise her that her Web experience will be noticeably better,
> even given the same modem speed, on a 466 MHz PowerMac G4 (384 Mb RAM, 1
> Mb L2 cache) running IE <latest version> under MacOX 9.1 (or MacOS X)
> than it currently is on our 180 MHz PowerPC 603e-based PowerBase machine
> (64 Mb RAM, ??? cache) running Netscape Communicator 4.7 under MacOS
> 8.0? I really want to be able to tell her she'll really love this new
> machine... but I *really* don't want to lie to her about it. Can anyone
> offer me hope?

Bill, I'm not an expert; but what I can say is that with the same 56 k
modem speed, the almost new 500 MHz iMac G3 (256 Mb RAM) running either the
latest IE that I have (5.0) or Netscape Communicator 4.7 under OS 9.1, is
so much noticeably faster than the old 75 MHz Performa 6214CD (also a PC
603e, albeit the puniest of them) 64 Mb RAM (w/ext GV 56 k modem,
originally it had a 14.4 internal) I had until December, that my wife, who
supposedly inherited the 6200 has to be asked to vacate my seat whenever I
wish to check my e mail, because she's using it instead of the 6200 to
websearch. Not exactly a match, but I think you'll experience something
very like what I did.

Tell her she'll like it. My wife Andrea would agree.

David





------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18956
From: eljohn2@home.spamthis.com (Ed Johnson)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:31:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Job Listing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

FS:
   If you had applied for this job, you might have been entered into
a contest.  The prize is a $300 gift certificate with Amazon.com.

Ed J  


On Tue, 10 Apr 2001 17:25:59 -0700, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:

>"Bill Dauphin" <"dauphinb"@ix.netcom.com@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>news:3ad39cd5.0@news.sff.net...
>> So, did you apply?  ;^)
>
>Not yet. I'm at work, and they disapprove of that sort of stuff on company
>time.:)
>
>However, when I get home....
>
>Filksinger

FS:  I thought that you had promised Lois and Jimmy that you would
no longer answer any online job ads?


;-)
>


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18957
From: eljohn2@home.spamthis.com (Ed Johnson)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:38:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Important Warning!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Filksinger:
   If   <dot>us stands for United States
does <dot>su stand for Soviet Union?

Ed J   ;-)

Subject: April 1st Warning
  Date: 1 Apr 2001 08:37:08 GMT
  Organization: The White House
  Message-ID: <3ku0bk$pt4@vax.kremlin.su>
  NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.244.129.2

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18958
From: eljohn2@home.spamthis.com (Ed Johnson)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:57:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Two Birds
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Fader:

>of the ones he wrote for, was the original Green Lantern. Seems that
>he wrote the Oath.
   You got my attention on that one.  Ol' Alfred Bester-Tester
writing Green Lantern's oath;  good show!  Thanks for the info.

Ed J
     

On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 10:03:16 GMT, fader555@aol.com (Fader) wrote:

>Both of these have come up in the not too distant past.
>
>I was reading the new Bester collection (ReDemolished") yesterday, &
>in the intro it was saying how Bester wrote for comics, apparently one
>of the ones he wrote for, was the original Green Lantern. Seems that
>he wrote the Oath.
>
>Thot some of you might find it interesting.
>
>Fader


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18959
From: eljohn2@home.spamthis.com (Ed Johnson)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:12:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Pass the Ammunition
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum



JovBill:
   I have found that most browsers (IE5 and up; Netscape 4.5 and up)
are heavy users of a system's resources.  Both in CPU cycles and
system RAM.  A faster CPU with massive amounts of RAM should show a
noticeable increase in web browsing speed compared to your old
machine.  At work we boosted RAM from 128 to 256 MB for someone
doing a lot of online research.  He was pleased with the results on
his Pentium3- 600 MHz PC.

Ed J

On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:42:00 -0500, Bill Dauphin
<"dauphinb"@ix.netcom.com@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>All:
>
>I *just about* had the Domestic Goddess convinced that we should spend
>(part of) our tax refund on a new computer when it dawned on her
>(actually, I let it slip) that we already have a 56k modem, just like
>the new machine would have (no reasonable broadband service in our area
>yet), and the only real gripe she has about our current system is slow
>Web browsing.
>
>Soooo... one of you computer experts out there please help me out: Can I
>honestly promise her that her Web experience will be noticeably better,
>even given the same modem speed, on a 466 MHz PowerMac G4 (384 Mb RAM, 1
>Mb L2 cache) running IE <latest version> under MacOX 9.1 (or MacOS X)
>than it currently is on our 180 MHz PowerPC 603e-based PowerBase machine
>(64 Mb RAM, ??? cache) running Netscape Communicator 4.7 under MacOS
>8.0? I really want to be able to tell her she'll really love this new
>machine... but I *really* don't want to lie to her about it. Can anyone
>offer me hope?
>
>-JovBill


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18960
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:45:12 -0700
Subject: Re: Important Warning!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@home.spamthis.com> wrote in message
news:s1fcdtkmicigvuldrasocu7ovl3adjrq2c@4ax.com...
> Filksinger:
>    If   <dot>us stands for United States
> does <dot>su stand for Soviet Union?
>
> Ed J   ;-)

I'm not sure, but maybe. The kremlin.vax address indicates that the creator
of the practical joke was probably referring to a prior practical joke
wherein someone posted to Usenet that the USSR was now officially online,
and that they were in charge of the VAX they were using. At the time, not
only were they not online, but the VAX was illegal to export.

When the USSR actually did join the Usenet, the guy in charge of the project
knew about the previous joke. In some cases, he actually told people he
_was_ joking. Eventually, he even changed the name of his node to
kremlin.vax.

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18961
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:48:09 -0700
Subject: Re: E-mail Changing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"Fader" <fader555@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3ad569ec.641121@news.sff.net...
> On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 09:56:37 GMT, fader555@aol.com (Fader) wrote:
>
> >I'm going to be leaving AOL shortly, if anybody wants my new e-mail
> >address, then e-mail me (fader555@aol.com) & I'll send you the new
> >one.
> >
> Two so far, any other takers ??
>
> Fader

Unless you are leaving the list, won't we be able to get it off your new
posts?

Oh, and, yes, I would like it, especially if I am wrong.

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18962
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:58:12 -0700
Subject: Re: Job Listing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@home.spamthis.com> wrote in message
news:haecdt8hi75op3ojb8567k628999idoej0@4ax.com...
> FS:
>    If you had applied for this job, you might have been entered into
> a contest.  The prize is a $300 gift certificate with Amazon.com.
>
> Ed J

I did. I just needed to get home first.


Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18963
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:02:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Pass the Ammunition
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"Bill Dauphin" <"dauphinb"@ix.netcom.com@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3ad4eaf7.0@news.sff.net...
<snip>
> Soooo... one of you computer experts out there please help me out: Can I
> honestly promise her that her Web experience will be noticeably better,
> even given the same modem speed, on a 466 MHz PowerMac G4 (384 Mb RAM, 1
> Mb L2 cache) running IE <latest version> under MacOX 9.1 (or MacOS X)
> than it currently is on our 180 MHz PowerPC 603e-based PowerBase machine
> (64 Mb RAM, ??? cache) running Netscape Communicator 4.7 under MacOS
> 8.0? I really want to be able to tell her she'll really love this new
> machine... but I *really* don't want to lie to her about it. Can anyone
> offer me hope?

It will be faster. Your email and browser programs will open faster. Web
pages will draw faster.

But not as much faster as a connection upgrade would be, by quite a bit.
Noticeable, maybe even important, but not as good.

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18964
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:13:59 GMT
Subject: Re: E-mail Changing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:48:09 -0700, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:

>
>Unless you are leaving the list, won't we be able to get it off your new
>posts?
>
>Oh, and, yes, I would like it, especially if I am wrong.
>
Jane & Filk -

Guess you two are quicker than I am, that hadn't occurred to me. 

OTOH, it may be awhile before I can get FA to work with the new
service, these things always take quite a bit for me to figure out.

Fader

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18965
From: James Gifford <jgifford@rcsis.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:07:49 -0700
Subject: Re: E-mail Changing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Fader wrote:
>> Unless you are leaving the list, won't we be able to get it off your new
>> posts?

> Guess you two are quicker than I am, that hadn't occurred to me.

I just assumed it was more of the obsession with online security that
everyone herein has. :)

There is no security on the outside of a hardware firewall, and only
damn fools and mice think there can be.

-- 

| James Gifford - Nitrosyncretic Press - gifford@nitrosyncretic.com |
|   See http://www.nitrosyncretic.com for the Heinlein FAQ & more   |

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18966
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 14:32:44 -0700
Subject: Re: E-mail Changing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"James Gifford" <jgifford@rcsis.com> wrote in message
news:3AD72455.1662D4F8@rcsis.com...
> Fader wrote:
> >> Unless you are leaving the list, won't we be able to get it off your
new
> >> posts?
>
> > Guess you two are quicker than I am, that hadn't occurred to me.
>
> I just assumed it was more of the obsession with online security that
> everyone herein has. :)
>
> There is no security on the outside of a hardware firewall, and only
> damn fools and mice think there can be.

_Outside_? You mean you actually think there is security _inside_?

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18967
From: Bill Dauphin <"dauphinb"@ix.netcom.com@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:40:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Free to a Good Home
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum



Bill Dauphin wrote:

> Bill Dauphin wrote:
>
> > I now have an extra copy of
> > _Rogue Star_,

It's been claimed.

-JovBill


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18968
From: David Wright" <dwrigsr@alltel.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:48:00 -0400
Subject: Discussion log for 4-12-2001 Heinlein Readers Group meeting now available
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

The discussion log for the Thursday April 12,2001 meeting of the
Heinlein Readers Group is now available at:

http://dwrighsr.tripod.com/heinlein/MOON_AIM_04-12-2001.html

The topic for Thursday and again for the Saturday evening meeting
4-14-2001 5:00 P.M. EDT is

"The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"

These discussions take place using AOL's Instant Messenger program (AIM)
which is available free-of-charge at AOL's download site:

http://www.aol.com/aim/

More information on how to join the discussion can be found at:

http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/heinlein_1.html

Looking forward to having you join us.
--
Related Heinlein Web Pages

http://www.heinleinsociety.org/

http://readinggroupsonline.com/group/robertaheinlein.html

http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/heinlein.html





------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18969
From: David Wright" <dwrigsr@alltel.net>
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 13:26:33 -0400
Subject: Discussion Log for Heinlein Readers Group Thursday 4-14-2001 Now available
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

The discussion log for the Saturday April 14,2001 meeting of the
Heinlein Readers Group is now available at:

http://dwrighsr.tripod.com/heinlein/MOON_AIM_04-14-2001.html

The topic for the Saturday evening meeting 4-14-2001 5:00 P.M. EDT was

"The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"

David Wright
--
Related Heinlein Web Pages

http://www.heinleinsociety.org/

http://readinggroupsonline.com/group/robertaheinlein.html

http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/heinlein.html




------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18970
From: noone" <no_one@home>
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:12:14 -0000
Subject: Re: Government Conspiracy, Anyone?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

i'm a newby here though not new to robert's work, i've read through most of
the posts here to get a feel for the group before posting but this one
caught my eye. my basic thought is that some (too many) people have entirely
too much time on their hands and too little training in the rational
thinking robert advocated and practised.
"gunner"

"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:3aa83d6a.0@news.sff.net...
> Here's the latest in conspiracy fads.
>
> http://www.usatoday.com/weather/science/2001-03-07-contrails.htm
>
> Filksinger
>
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18971
From: noone" <no_one@home>
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:36:49 -0000
Subject: Re: Cthulhu and Lovecraft
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

i'm trying to remember a videotape i once rented that, i seem to remember,
dealt with an attempt to "call up cthulu" but the title and period won't
come to mind, anyone else?
"gunner"

"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:3a9c4684.0@news.sff.net...
>
> "Bob Lawson" <bobl@nospam.giantsfan.com> wrote in message
> news:3a9c4167.270343@news.sff.net...
> > I first heard the term cthulu after listening to a radio program
> > called cthonic transmissions on KDVS (UC Davis radio station). I asked
> > Jim what Cthulu is and he enlightened me as to the basic "embodiment
> > of evil" idea. He told me who created Cthulu, but I didn't remember
> > Lovecraft in particular. I have never read Lovecraft.
>
> In a strange way he is overhyped. While he is horrible and evil, he isn't
> the embodyment himself; he is the priest of something utterly unknown
which
> presumably is far worse.
>
> He is the alien high priest of a cult far older than man. He is monsterous
> in size, horribly powerful and drives men who look upon him to insanity or
> death by fear. What his purpose or cult truly is, no one knows, since none
> of his worshipers have ever seen him, but it is believed that he talks to
> them with his thoughts while he lays in hybernation, and promises a
> worldwide orgy of depravity and murder when he awakens and is freed by his
> cultists, "when the stars are right". What he worships is unknown, but the
> evidence is that it is truly horrible indeed.
>
> Filksinger
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18972
From: James Gifford <jgifford@rcsis.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:37:28 -0700
Subject: Announcement
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

I was going to wait until the final list was posted (sometime later this
month), but this isn't the kind of news I can sit on. I got the
confirmation call yesterday:

_Robert A. Heinlein: A Reader's Companion_ is a Hugo Award nominee in
the "SF Related" category, and will appear on the final Hugo ballot this
year.

It's not often you get to check off a really major life goal. :)

-- 

| James Gifford - Nitrosyncretic Press - gifford@nitrosyncretic.com |
|   See http://www.nitrosyncretic.com for the Heinlein FAQ & more   |

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18973
From: ddavitt <ddavitt@netcom.ca>
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:18:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Announcement
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

James Gifford wrote:

> I was going to wait until the final list was posted (sometime later this
> month), but this isn't the kind of news I can sit on. I got the
> confirmation call yesterday:
>
> _Robert A. Heinlein: A Reader's Companion_ is a Hugo Award nominee in
> the "SF Related" category, and will appear on the final Hugo ballot this
> year.

As I said over on afh; many congratulations!
I'd get you to sign it but you already did :-))

Jane



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18974
From: William J. Keaton" <wjake@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 01:41:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Announcement
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"James Gifford" wrote
> I was going to wait until the final list was posted (sometime later this
> month), but this isn't the kind of news I can sit on. I got the
> confirmation call yesterday:
>
> _Robert A. Heinlein: A Reader's Companion_ is a Hugo Award nominee in
> the "SF Related" category, and will appear on the final Hugo ballot this
> year.
>
> It's not often you get to check off a really major life goal. :)
>

Your Welcome. Happy to help. <g>
I wonder if anything else I nominated made the list. Of course, if I can't
find my list, I don't know how I'll figure that out!

And Good Luck!

--
WJaKe

http://pages.prodigy.net/wjake



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18975
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:45:13 -0700
Subject: Apology from George W. Bush
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Unfortunately, I do not know the author's name.

Filksinger

************

APOLOGY TO THE PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF CHINA

It is with deep regret, hesitation, and contrition that I, The President of
the United States of America, offer apology to the Chinese nation and its
peoples. I apologize for the heinous act performed by our large, sluggish,
propeller driven, airplane when it got in the way of your highly
maneuverable, supersonic, technologically superior, jet aircraft.
Furthermore, I sincerely regret the fact that by flying in international
airspace, we afforded your "highly competent" pilot the opportunity to fly
his aircraft into our own, causing him to spiral to his death into the
ocean. We regret the choice made by said pilot when he used deficient
judgment in electing to attempt aerial intimidation upon our slower moving,
unarmed, surveillance vehicle. This situation brings to mind a similar
episode when I was in grade school and my face got in the way of the school
yard bully's fist. He broke a bone in his hand and I felt as compelled to
apologize for that incident as I do for this one. Let me summarize by
stating that it is our sincere hope that you accept this "heart felt" and
"sincere" apology for the actions committed by your pilot. We are sorry that
we got in the way. We are sorry that we were forced to leave international
airspace and land in Chinese territory. We are sorry that you were forced to
provide food and housing for our military personnel.


Most of all, we are sorry that you have, in your possession, some of our
most technologically advanced surveillance equipment on the planet. I hope
that
you can find it in your heart to forgive us. I am thankful you have been
compelled to release our men and our property.

Because I really don't want to have to apologize again when we have to kick
your ass.


Sincerely,

George W. Bush
President of the United States



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18976
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:45:35 -0700
Subject: Re: Announcement
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"James Gifford" <jgifford@rcsis.com> wrote in message
news:3ADCEFD8.268CD739@rcsis.com...
> I was going to wait until the final list was posted (sometime later this
> month), but this isn't the kind of news I can sit on. I got the
> confirmation call yesterday:
>
> _Robert A. Heinlein: A Reader's Companion_ is a Hugo Award nominee in
> the "SF Related" category, and will appear on the final Hugo ballot this
> year.
>
> It's not often you get to check off a really major life goal. :)
>

Congratulations!

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18977
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:56:48 GMT
Subject: _Children of Hope_--new Feintuch
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Don't know how many of follow the "Hope" series by David Feintuch, but
the latest installment, _Children of Hope_, is out in hardcover.  Just
over 500 pages.

I didn't even know David was working on it.  Caught me completely by
surprise in the bookstore.  Haven't finished it yet; one consequence
of fatherhood is reduced time for obsessively finishing books.  At
least, until they get old enough to hook them on their own books. ;)

JT

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18978
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:56:48 GMT
Subject: Re: Government Conspiracy, Anyone?
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:12:14 -0000, "noone" <no_one@home> wrote:
>i'm a newby here though not new to robert's work, i've read through most of
>the posts here to get a feel for the group before posting but this one
>caught my eye. my basic thought is that some (too many) people have entirely
>too much time on their hands and too little training in the rational
>thinking robert advocated and practised.
>"gunner"

Hi gunner,

Nice to have you join us!  I see you've posted in a few threads, I
look forward to hearing more from you.

JT

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18979
From: William J. Keaton" <wjake@prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 01:56:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Announcement
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote
>
> Congratulations!
>
I new I forgot to say something in my note!

Congratulations!


--
WJaKe

http://pages.prodigy.net/wjake



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18980
From: fader555@aol.com (Fader)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:43:11 GMT
Subject: Re: Apology from George W. Bush
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:45:13 -0700, "Filksinger"
<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote:

Ah, Diplomacy, tis a wonderful thing.

Fader


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18981
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:40:45 -0700
Subject: Great New Anti-spam Technique!
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

I just discovered another method of tracking email. It can be used by
anyone, even if they don't have a domain, and it pins down the specific site
that is spamming you automatically.

Suppose your email address is "joe@myisp.com". You are visiting
www.spamisgood.com, and they want your email address. So, you give it to
them, but you mung it like this: "joe(www.spamisgood.com)@myisp.com".

This will still arrive at joe@myisp.com with most mail servers. However,
when it arrives, it will be addressed like this: To: "joe@myisp.com
(www.spamisgood.com). If it is BCCed, you will not be able to see the munged
email address normally, but you can see it by looking at _all_ the headers
of the email. The munged email address will be in there somewhere.

Unfortunately, the most popular email client around, Outlook Express, cannot
be set to search headers for anything that isn't a To, CC, or From field,
and thus cannot filter BCC messages from spammers. Outlook can, by being set
to check for a particular word in any header. Other email programs it will
depend upon what filters you can set.

You can also use pluses, like this: joe+++@myisp.com. Also, you can use
parentheses in places elsewhere in the email, like
joe@myisp(diespammerdie).com.

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18982
From: eljohn2@home.spamthis.com (Ed Johnson)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 20:33:31 -0400
Subject: Re: E-mail Changing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

James:      Could you recommend a few hardware firewall products?
Are there any that might be inexpensive enough for the individual
(home) user?  I am currently using "BlackIce Defender" and I think
that someone here mentioned the Norton product IIRC.  That's a
software solution.  Do we need a programmed router to screen our
connection the Wild Wild Web?

Ed J


On Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:07:49 -0700, James Gifford
<jgifford@rcsis.com> wrote:

>Fader wrote:
>>> Unless you are leaving the list, won't we be able to get it off your new
>>> posts?
>
>> Guess you two are quicker than I am, that hadn't occurred to me.
>
>I just assumed it was more of the obsession with online security that
>everyone herein has. :)
>
>There is no security on the outside of a hardware firewall, and only
>damn fools and mice think there can be.


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18983
From: eljohn2@home.spamthis.com (Ed Johnson)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 20:38:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Announcement
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

   Congratulations!
Good luck in the voting.  You've got my "vote";  it's just not the
same as WJake's vote.

Ed J

On Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:37:28 -0700, James Gifford
<jgifford@rcsis.com> wrote:

>I was going to wait until the final list was posted (sometime later this
>month), but this isn't the kind of news I can sit on. I got the
>confirmation call yesterday:
>
>_Robert A. Heinlein: A Reader's Companion_ is a Hugo Award nominee in
>the "SF Related" category, and will appear on the final Hugo ballot this
>year.
>
>It's not often you get to check off a really major life goal. :)


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18984
From: James Gifford <jgifford@rcsis.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:15:35 -0700
Subject: Re: E-mail Changing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Ed Johnson wrote:
> James:      Could you recommend a few hardware firewall products?
> Are there any that might be inexpensive enough for the individual
> (home) user?  I am currently using "BlackIce Defender" and I think
> that someone here mentioned the Norton product IIRC.  That's a
> software solution.  Do we need a programmed router to screen our
> connection the Wild Wild Web?

The LinkSys Cable/DSL Routers are great. There's a single-port model (if
you only have a single computer) and a 4-port model (which incorporates
a 4-port switch). Generally, I recommend the single-port model plus a
separate hub - cheaper and more flexible. But you might want the
all-in-one unit for a very small network.

The router/firewall goes between your DSL or cable modem and your PC or
network. A few basic configuration steps, accomplished by pointing your
browser at the router, and you're done. I've been using this one now for
close to a year, and it's been flawless. I don't know of any security
problems (and there have been reports of them on my provider's loops),
and it doesn't interfere with anything, even the fussiest network games.

Highly recommended.

A look at CNET shows the 1-port going for about $80, the 4-port about
$125. (That's $45 for the integrated switch. You can get a 5-port hub
cheaper.)

A quick look at eBay shows somewhat lower prices, if you want to play
the auction game.

-- 

| James Gifford - Nitrosyncretic Press - gifford@nitrosyncretic.com |
|   See http://www.nitrosyncretic.com for the Heinlein FAQ & more   |

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18985
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:29:37 -0700
Subject: Re: E-mail Changing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@home.spamthis.com> wrote in message
news:kl0vdtcpo284djuhv1divpd41l16s9m5fc@4ax.com...
> James:      Could you recommend a few hardware firewall products?
> Are there any that might be inexpensive enough for the individual
> (home) user?  I am currently using "BlackIce Defender" and I think
> that someone here mentioned the Norton product IIRC.  That's a
> software solution.  Do we need a programmed router to screen our
> connection the Wild Wild Web?
>
> Ed J

Personally, while a hardware firewall is a good idea, I think you still need
good software solutions, as well. A hardware router will give you limited or
no protection from programs that get past your firewall, such as Trojans.

For a firewall, at this time I use Zone Alarm. The personal edition is free
to home users, and it will catch any program trying to connect to the
Internet from your machine, as well as giving you a solid firewall face to
the web. It is extremely easy to configure, as well.

A good and fairly frequently updated anti-virus is also a good idea. At
least as important is software that will quarantine email attachments and
downloads, so that you can detect when they do Trojan or virus-like things,
even if your anti-virus cannot detect them.

Last but not least, keep up on security issues for your OS and browser. Even
Win9x can present a pretty solid defense to the web in the place of a
firewall, _if_ you configure it right. (Its defense against viruses or
Trojans, OTOH, is nil.)

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18986
From: William J. Keaton" <wjake@prodigy.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 01:28:54 -0400
Subject: Re: E-mail Changing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@home.spamthis.com> wrote
> James:      Could you recommend a few hardware firewall products?

I'm not James, but I second his opinion on the Linksys router. Except that
mine is a Netgear. Cost range is about the same, I bought the Netgear
because it was on sale. As I already have a hub, I bought the one-port
model.

As for firewall software, I am using ZoneAlarm, which has the advantage of
being free.

--
WJaKe

http://pages.prodigy.net/wjake



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18987
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 01:07:59 -0700
Subject: Re: Cthulhu and Lovecraft
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

From: "noone" <no_one@home>

<<i'm trying to remember a videotape i once rented that, i seem to
remember,
dealt with an attempt to "call up cthulu" but the title and period
won't
come to mind, anyone else?
"gunner">>

There is "Call of Cthulhu", the most well known of H. P. Lovecraft's
work. I know of nothing about "call up cthulu".

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18988
From: noone" <no_one@home>
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:30:36 -0000
Subject: thank you
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

thank you for the welcome to the forum. as i said, i've been reading
heinlein "since christ was a corporal"  though i'm fairly new to forum
discussions. i've a few things to sort out including how to get my nickname
to show on my posts rather than the "noone" default but i'll get that
squared away in time and i look forward to enjoying your posts and company.
"gunner"



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18989
From: James Gifford <jgifford@rcsis.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:08:22 -0700
Subject: Re: E-mail Changing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Filksinger wrote:
> Personally, while a hardware firewall is a good idea, I think you still need
> good software solutions, as well. A hardware router will give you limited or
> no protection from programs that get past your firewall, such as Trojans.

Firewalls aren't to protect against things getting in (at least, not
primarily). They're to protect against unauthorized users getting to
systems and files.

> For a firewall, at this time I use Zone Alarm. The personal edition is free
> to home users, and it will catch any program trying to connect to the
> Internet from your machine, as well as giving you a solid firewall face to
> the web. It is extremely easy to configure, as well.

I also used ZoneAlarm for a while before I put in the router/firewall.
It's a good program, nicely configurable, and the price is right. :)

My problem was that we have a multi-user network and it was a pain to
try and install and maintain software firewalls on each machine. The
hardware FW right at the door makes it easier and more secure.

> A good and fairly frequently updated anti-virus is also a good idea.

This is on the "duh" level for anyone who connects to the Internet. If
you aren't running a good virus scanner that you update at least once a
week, you're going to be in big trouble.

-- 

| James Gifford - Nitrosyncretic Press - gifford@nitrosyncretic.com |
|   See http://www.nitrosyncretic.com for the Heinlein FAQ & more   |

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18990
From: Charles Graft <chasgraft@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 00:48:42 -0500
Subject: Shoot Down
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

LIMA, Peru (AP) - A Peruvian air force jet shot down a plane carrying
American missionaries in Peru's Amazon jungle region Friday, killing a
mother and her infant child and wounding the pilot, U.S. and missionary
officials said. ``The Peruvian pilot mistook it for an airplane
transporting contraband drugs,'' Benjamin Ziff told The Associated
Press. The Rev. E.C. Haskell, spokesman for the Association of Baptists
for World Evangelism, said the group's plane was attacked as it flew
from the Peruvian border to the city of Iquitos. Missionary Roni Bowers
and her 6-month-old daughter, Charity, were both killed and veteran
missionary pilot Kevin Donaldson was wounded, he said.

All--

    I recall this being discussed here a few years ago.  Some of the
more zealous anti-drug types wanted shoot down authority in this
country.   I contended at the time that it was only a matter of time
before an innocent plane was shot down.

--
<<Big Charlie>>

"Computers make it easier to do a lot of things, but most of the things
they make it easier to do don't need to be done."  -- Andy Rooney




------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18991
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 01:33:09 -0700
Subject: Re: E-mail Changing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"James Gifford" <jgifford@rcsis.com> wrote in message
news:3AE08926.E9847CD4@rcsis.com...
> Filksinger wrote:
> > Personally, while a hardware firewall is a good idea, I think you
still need
> > good software solutions, as well. A hardware router will give you
limited or
> > no protection from programs that get past your firewall, such as
Trojans.
>
> Firewalls aren't to protect against things getting in (at least, not
> primarily). They're to protect against unauthorized users getting to
> systems and files.

If they don't stop things from getting in, then the things that get in
can give access to your systems and files. I realize that this isn't
what you mean, but I've known users who believed that having a
firewall made them "secure". I wouldn't have mentioned it, except that
the original comment implied that a hardware firewall _did_ give you
security.

> > For a firewall, at this time I use Zone Alarm. The personal
edition is free
> > to home users, and it will catch any program trying to connect to
the
> > Internet from your machine, as well as giving you a solid firewall
face to
> > the web. It is extremely easy to configure, as well.
>
> I also used ZoneAlarm for a while before I put in the
router/firewall.
> It's a good program, nicely configurable, and the price is right. :)
>
> My problem was that we have a multi-user network and it was a pain
to
> try and install and maintain software firewalls on each machine. The
> hardware FW right at the door makes it easier and more secure.

I only have one machine at this time, and I will install Zone Alarm on
all machines I set up, even if I have a hardware firewall.

I don't know that I will have one, though that would depend upon what
that means. Even a "hardware" firewall runs on software, so I don't
know, for example, if a machine that was programmed to give Internet
connection sharing and act as a firewall, but do nothing else, would
be a "hardware" firewall or a software one. And I know some systems
which make the line even fuzzier, such as Gnat Box.

> > A good and fairly frequently updated anti-virus is also a good
idea.
>
> This is on the "duh" level for anyone who connects to the Internet.
If
> you aren't running a good virus scanner that you update at least
once a
> week, you're going to be in big trouble.

Yet I see people without it all the time. I work with an ISP, and most
of the people who call in don't even know if they have anti-virus, or
if it is up-to-date. I've also talked to people who believe that a
firewall means they don't need anti-virus software on their machine,
because the firewall will protect them.

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18992
From: Robert Slater" <rslater215@home.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 09:27:17 -0700
Subject: Computer Question: Networking
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Folks,
SIFI Rob with a question on home networking.  I've got everything set up and
I've got all three computers able to interact with each other, but when I
try to install Internet Connection Sharing it tells me my network is not
configured.  It says please install network hardware before installing ICS.
I'd like to share my cable modem.  Is it possible that my cable network has
somehow blocked this feature?
Any ideas would be great.  Thanks.
SIFI Rob



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18993
From: noone" <no_one@home>
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 15:00:28 -0000
Subject: Re: Shoot Down
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

i remember that discussion too and my first thought was the same, that
sooner or later, likely sooner some young hotshot would get trigger happy
and a private aircraft  would be shot down. after which the "spin doctors"
would then try to tell us it was "his own fault". and the the washington
wallahs wonder why we treat them with suspicion and thinly veiled comtempt.
this is a tragedy but hopefully it will point up a lesson to those who claim
the "war on drugs" must be won at any cost.
"gunner"

"Charles Graft" <chasgraft@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3AE11F39.4F0D68C3@aol.com...
> LIMA, Peru (AP) - A Peruvian air force jet shot down a plane carrying
> American missionaries in Peru's Amazon jungle region Friday, killing a
> mother and her infant child and wounding the pilot, U.S. and missionary
> officials said. ``The Peruvian pilot mistook it for an airplane
> transporting contraband drugs,'' Benjamin Ziff told The Associated
> Press. The Rev. E.C. Haskell, spokesman for the Association of Baptists
> for World Evangelism, said the group's plane was attacked as it flew
> from the Peruvian border to the city of Iquitos. Missionary Roni Bowers
> and her 6-month-old daughter, Charity, were both killed and veteran
> missionary pilot Kevin Donaldson was wounded, he said.
>
> All--
>
>     I recall this being discussed here a few years ago.  Some of the
> more zealous anti-drug types wanted shoot down authority in this
> country.   I contended at the time that it was only a matter of time
> before an innocent plane was shot down.
>
> --
> <<Big Charlie>>
>
> "Computers make it easier to do a lot of things, but most of the things
> they make it easier to do don't need to be done."  -- Andy Rooney
>
>
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18994
From: Charles Graft <chasgraft@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 17:51:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Shoot Down
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

All--
     This is now even worse.  It appears (unconfirmed) that an American
surveillance plane was providing the Peruvian air force with location
information.  What is wrong with our priorities?

--
<<Big Charlie>>

"Computers make it easier to do a lot of things, but most of the things
they make it easier to do don't need to be done."  -- Andy Rooney



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18995
From: eljohn2@home.spamthis.com (Ed Johnson)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 20:39:57 -0400
Subject: Re: E-mail Changing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

All:   Sounds like good advice to me.  First line of defense, as
part of a defense in depth:   Router - SW firewall - active
antivirus.
FS:   I, too have been preaching the AntiVirus line for a long time
now, at work and to friends.  I still run into people who have an
antivirus which was factory installed and hasn't been updated in
years!  At work I check for new AV files every morning and recommend
that everyone get an update weekly.

Ed J

On Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:15:35 -0700, James Gifford
<jgifford@rcsis.com> wrote:

>
>The LinkSys Cable/DSL Routers are great. There's a single-port model (if
>you only have a single computer) and a 4-port model (which incorporates
>a 4-port switch). Generally, I recommend the single-port model plus a
>separate hub - cheaper and more flexible. But you might want the
>all-in-one unit for a very small network.
>
>The router/firewall goes between your DSL or cable modem and your PC or
>network. A few basic configuration steps, accomplished by pointing your
>browser at the router, and you're done. I've been using this one now for
>close to a year, and it's been flawless. I don't know of any security
>problems (and there have been reports of them on my provider's loops),
>and it doesn't interfere with anything, even the fussiest network games.
>
>Highly recommended.
>
>A look at CNET shows the 1-port going for about $80, the 4-port about
>$125. (That's $45 for the integrated switch. You can get a 5-port hub
>cheaper.)
>
>A quick look at eBay shows somewhat lower prices, if you want to play
>the auction game.


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18996
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 20:01:43 -0700
Subject: Re: Computer Question: Networking
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"Robert Slater" <rslater215@home.com> wrote in message
news:3ae1b415.0@news.sff.net...
> Folks,
> SIFI Rob with a question on home networking.  I've got everything
set up and
> I've got all three computers able to interact with each other, but
when I
> try to install Internet Connection Sharing it tells me my network is
not
> configured.  It says please install network hardware before
installing ICS.
> I'd like to share my cable modem.  Is it possible that my cable
network has
> somehow blocked this feature?
> Any ideas would be great.  Thanks.
> SIFI Rob

I suppose it is possible, if they got you to install their software,
that they did this. I doubt it, however. Even if it is their fault, it
is probably accidental. I work at Earthlink these days, and the
Earthlink software accidentally disabled the Internet Configuration
Wizard when installed, even if the install was cancelled due to
insufficient hardware, but it wasn't deliberate. Somebody coding it
goofed. The next version, they corrected this.

I doubt it, though.

Here's what I would do. However, I don't know your specific setup, so
I cannot be responsible if it explodes in your face.

First, get your Win9x disk. Next, go to the machine that has the
problem, go into the Network icon in the Control Panel, and remove
everything but your network card(s). Click OK. Do not reboot. Then, go
into Add/Remove Programs, Windows Setup, and remove the check from
Communications. Click OK. Do not reboot. Open Add/Remove, open Windows
Setup, and open Internet Tools. Uncheck Internet Connection Sharing.
Click OK, then OK. Do not reboot.

Go _back_ to Add/Remove Programs, Windows Setup. Go into
Communications and add anything specified by your ISP. If your ISP
doesn't require any of these, leave them unchecked. Click OK out
again, do not reboot. Go back into Windows Setup, and go into Internet
Tools and restore ICS. Click OK and OK, do not reboot.

Go back into Network, and install TCP/IP, then Client for MSN. Reboot.
Test connection. Now try adding Internet Connection Sharing.

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18997
From: eljohn2@home.spamthis.com (Ed Johnson)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 09:25:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Shoot Down
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Charlie:    I heard the same (or similar) news report:  A US
military plane located and pointed out the plane to the Peruvian's
who shot it down.


Ed J

On Sat, 21 Apr 2001 17:51:00 -0500, Charles Graft
<chasgraft@aol.com> wrote:

>All--
>     This is now even worse.  It appears (unconfirmed) that an American
>surveillance plane was providing the Peruvian air force with location
>information.  What is wrong with our priorities?


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18998
From: Charles Graft <chasgraft@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 11:22:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Shoot Down
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
All--
<br>     My outrage continues to mount.  I did
not know that smuggling was considered a capital crime to start with and
for our country to be a party to this is even more of an outrage.
<p>--
<br><<Big Charlie>>
<p>"Computers make it easier to do a lot of things, but most of the things
they make it easier to do don't need to be done."  -- Andy Rooney
<br> 
<p><i>``At some point, one of the bullets had gone through Roni's heart,
right into the baby's head, from behind. They died instantly, which was
a blessing,'' said Phil Bowers, who is a trained pilot. The Bowers brothers,
from Muskegon, Mich., were raised by missionary parents in the Amazon jungles
of Brazil.</i><i></i>
<p><b><i><u>``The planes kept swooping down and shooting'' at the survivors
even after the crash, as they clung to the capsized plane's pontoons, he
said.</u></i></b><i></i>
<p><i>There were conflicting reports Saturday about whether the missionaries'
plane had a flight plan.</i><i></i>
<p><i>Under the agreement with the United States, Peru cannot use U.S.
air surveillance or radar data to attack a suspected drug plane unless
it is flying without a flight plan. The rules of engagement say Peruvian
fighters must try to make radio contact and visually signal a suspect aircraft
to land for inspection before opening fire.</i><i></i>
<p><i>The Peruvian government statement said the plane entered Peruvian
air space from Brazil without filing a flight plan and that it was fired
on after the pilot failed to respond to ``international procedures of identification
and interception.''</i><i></i>
<p><i>But Mario Justo, chief of Iquitos' airport, told The Associated Press
on Saturday that the plane did have a flight plan and that its pilot was
in radio contact with Iquitos' airport control tower.</i><i></i>
<p><i>He later ``clarified'' his statement, saying the plane did not have
a flight plan when it set out from Islandia, next to Brazil's border, Friday
morning, but one was established when the pilot made radio contact with
Iquitos' airport control tower at about 10:48 a.m. Friday.</i><i></i>
<p><i>The plane was expected to land in Iquitos 40 minutes later.</i><i></i>
<p><i>Since the early 1990s, Peru has been a key South American ally in
the United States' war on drug trafficking. Once the world's leading producers
of coca leaf, the raw material used to make cocaine, Peru supplied Colombia's
drug cartels. Much of that cocaine went to the United States, the world's
biggest consumer of the drug.</i><i></i>
<p><i>U.S. officials have hailed Peru's coca eradication efforts as a success.
CIA data released in January showed Peru's coca production fell for the
fifth consecutive year in 2000.</i><i></i>
<p><b><i><u>Shootings of aircraft carrying suspected drug traffickers is
nothing new. Between 1994 and 1997, Peru shot down about 25 suspected drug
planes on their way to Colombian cocaine refineries from coca-growing regions
in Peru's Amazon.</u></i></b><b><u></u></b>
<p>--------------------------------------------
<br>Some success this is.</html>


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 18999
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 00:41:23 -0700
Subject: Re: Shoot Down
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

The latest report is that the CIA observation plane may have pointed
out the plane that was shot down, but they did not suggest it should
be shot down. They reported something like, "There is an unidentified
plane at such-and-such location", and the Peruvians came and shot it
down.

Not that I don't want this whole operation shut down, but this is no
where near the same as suggesting that the plane be shot down,
particularly if shooting down planes was not SOP. Nor is a wrongful
shooting the same as an execution. If it _is_ SOP to shoot down planes
without giving them a chance to land and surrender, _then_ the CIA
observer plane is as guilty as is being suggested, but otherwise,
their guilt is less.

Filksinger

"Charles Graft" <chasgraft@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3AE30538.243F19E8@aol.com...
> All--
>      My outrage continues to mount.  I did not know that smuggling
was considered a capital crime to start with and for our country to be
a party to this is even more of an outrage.
> --
> <<Big Charlie>>
>
> "Computers make it easier to do a lot of things, but most of the
things they make it easier to do don't need to be done."  -- Andy
Rooney
>
>
> ``At some point, one of the bullets had gone through Roni's heart,
right into the baby's head, from behind. They died instantly, which
was a blessing,'' said Phil Bowers, who is a trained pilot. The Bowers
brothers, from Muskegon, Mich., were raised by missionary parents in
the Amazon jungles of Brazil.
>
> ``The planes kept swooping down and shooting'' at the survivors even
after the crash, as they clung to the capsized plane's pontoons, he
said.
>
> There were conflicting reports Saturday about whether the
missionaries' plane had a flight plan.
>
> Under the agreement with the United States, Peru cannot use U.S. air
surveillance or radar data to attack a suspected drug plane unless it
is flying without a flight plan. The rules of engagement say Peruvian
fighters must try to make radio contact and visually signal a suspect
aircraft to land for inspection before opening fire.
>
> The Peruvian government statement said the plane entered Peruvian
air space from Brazil without filing a flight plan and that it was
fired on after the pilot failed to respond to ``international
procedures of identification and interception.''
>
> But Mario Justo, chief of Iquitos' airport, told The Associated
Press on Saturday that the plane did have a flight plan and that its
pilot was in radio contact with Iquitos' airport control tower.
>
> He later ``clarified'' his statement, saying the plane did not have
a flight plan when it set out from Islandia, next to Brazil's border,
Friday morning, but one was established when the pilot made radio
contact with Iquitos' airport control tower at about 10:48 a.m.
Friday.
>
> The plane was expected to land in Iquitos 40 minutes later.
>
> Since the early 1990s, Peru has been a key South American ally in
the United States' war on drug trafficking. Once the world's leading
producers of coca leaf, the raw material used to make cocaine, Peru
supplied Colombia's drug cartels. Much of that cocaine went to the
United States, the world's biggest consumer of the drug.
>
> U.S. officials have hailed Peru's coca eradication efforts as a
success. CIA data released in January showed Peru's coca production
fell for the fifth consecutive year in 2000.
>
> Shootings of aircraft carrying suspected drug traffickers is nothing
new. Between 1994 and 1997, Peru shot down about 25 suspected drug
planes on their way to Colombian cocaine refineries from coca-growing
regions in Peru's Amazon.
>
> --------------------------------------------
> Some success this is.
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19000
From: Anthony Alford" <anthony_alford@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 09:31:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Computer Question: Networking
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Would using a router be an option for you?  Someone discussed this in the
"E-mail Changing" thread in this group.  I bought one of the Linksys routers
and it was a piece of cake to use: pretty much zero installation.

"Robert Slater" <rslater215@home.com> wrote in message
news:3ae1b415.0@news.sff.net...
> Folks,
> SIFI Rob with a question on home networking.  I've got everything set up
and
> I've got all three computers able to interact with each other, but when I
> try to install Internet Connection Sharing it tells me my network is not
> configured.  It says please install network hardware before installing
ICS.
> I'd like to share my cable modem.  Is it possible that my cable network
has
> somehow blocked this feature?
> Any ideas would be great.  Thanks.
> SIFI Rob
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19001
From: noone" <no_one@home>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 12:04:13 -0000
Subject: Re: Cthulhu and Lovecraft
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

thanks filksinger, i'm familiar with the book but this was a low budget
movie based on lovecraft and as before i can't recall the title
"gunner"

"Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:3adfeedd.0@news.sff.net...
> From: "noone" <no_one@home>
>
> <<i'm trying to remember a videotape i once rented that, i seem to
> remember,
> dealt with an attempt to "call up cthulu" but the title and period
> won't
> come to mind, anyone else?
> "gunner">>
>
> There is "Call of Cthulhu", the most well known of H. P. Lovecraft's
> work. I know of nothing about "call up cthulu".
>
> Filksinger
>
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19002
From: LORRITA  MORGAN" <lorrita-m@prodigy.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 11:24:16 -0700
Subject: Re: E-mail Changing
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"Ed Johnson" <eljohn2@home.spamthis.com> wrote in message
news:kn94eto8kepird81defnv40ct8iarbptbs@4ax.com...
<snip>At work I check for new AV files every morning and recommend
> that everyone get an update weekly.
>
> Ed J
> <More snips>

I update about once a month.  That's the default reminder for my software.
I just changed it to nag me every seven days.

--
Later,

`rita
Almost live from Finley, WA.

PS Anybody want to help do the first inventory in the library at my church?
I'm sooooooo looking forward to it.



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19003
From: filksinger@earthling.net
Date: 23 Apr 2001 19:29:39 GMT
Subject: Customs Forms for Apollo
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Some time ago, the legend was discussed that the Apollo astronauts returning
from the Moon for the first time were made to fill out customs forms, presumably
as a joke. Well, I have more information. It could be fraud, true, but I
suspect that, as a joke, they were actually made to fill this out.

http://www.research.att.com/~smb/imex.gif

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19004
From: Gordon Sollars" <gsollars@pobox.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:27:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Customs Forms for Apollo
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


<filksinger@earthling.net> wrote in message news:3ae482a3.0@news.sff.net...
> Some time ago, the legend was discussed that the Apollo astronauts
returning
> from the Moon for the first time were made to fill out customs forms,
presumably
> as a joke. Well, I have more information. It could be fraud, true, but I
> suspect that, as a joke, they were actually made to fill this out.

First it was a "hoax" or "legend" - now that dramatic and irrefutable
evidence of the plain fact of the matter has surfaced, it still "could be
fraud".  How tenaciously we hold to our comforting falsehoods!  Face it,
bureaucratic red tape is the very life blood of government, and can not be
escaped, even by going to the Moon!  ;-)

--
Gordon G. Sollars
gsollars@pobox.com



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19005
From: JT@REM0VE.sff.net (JT)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:46:03 GMT
Subject: Re: Customs Forms for Apollo
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

On 23 Apr 2001 19:29:39 GMT, filksinger@earthling.net wrote:

>Some time ago, the legend was discussed that the Apollo astronauts returning
>from the Moon for the first time were made to fill out customs forms, presumably
>as a joke. Well, I have more information. It could be fraud, true, but I
>suspect that, as a joke, they were actually made to fill this out.
>
>http://www.research.att.com/~smb/imex.gif
If you follow the root directory back, it contains a link to this
story:
http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=56850

Forgive me if that was the link that started the discussion here.

JT

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19006
From: James Gifford <jgifford@rcsis.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:12:59 -0700
Subject: Re: Customs Forms for Apollo
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Gordon Sollars wrote:
> First it was a "hoax" or "legend" - now that dramatic and irrefutable
> evidence of the plain fact of the matter has surfaced, it still "could be
> fraud".  How tenaciously we hold to our comforting falsehoods!  Face it,
> bureaucratic red tape is the very life blood of government, and can not be
> escaped, even by going to the Moon!  ;-)

It gets better.

A few years back, NASA needed a polished diamond (or sapphire) disk for
a window in a satellite. (For UV observation, IIRC, since glass won't
pass UV.)

They imported two, one as a spare, from Europe, and paid (enormous) duty
on them.

After the craft was launched, it occurred to some bright boy to apply
for a refund. Customs checked into it, verified that, yup, one disk had
been re-exported, and refunded the duty. :)

-- 

| James Gifford - Nitrosyncretic Press - gifford@nitrosyncretic.com |
|   See http://www.nitrosyncretic.com for the Heinlein FAQ & more   |

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19007
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:07:37 -0700
Subject: Re: Customs Forms for Apollo
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"JT" <JT@REM0VE.sff.net> wrote in message
news:3ae4be3f.90130661@news.sff.net...
<snip>
> If you follow the root directory back, it contains a link to this
> story:
> http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=56850
>
> Forgive me if that was the link that started the discussion here.

No, the original link was to Ananova. Since it had no sources sited, it was
considered insufficiently reliable to be considered fact instead of rumor.

The article you quote is considerably more authoritative.

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19008
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:26:53 -0700
Subject: We Always Knew It Was True
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_257888.html?menu=news.weirdworld.sexlif
e

Filksinger



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19009
From: Charles Graft <chasgraft@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 13:15:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Shoot Down
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

     According to one report, there have been 24 planes shot down under
this program.  Other reports have indicated that the plane already had
clearance to land at a very nearby airport.

     But I can see no reason to justify shooting down a small civilian
plane or civilian transport unless it is doing something dangerous to
others like diving on the white house.

     There is some major perspective missing on this.
--
<<Big Charlie>>

"Computers make it easier to do a lot of things, but most of the things
they make it easier to do don't need to be done."  -- Andy Rooney



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19010
From: Filksinger" <filksinger@earthling.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:29:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Shoot Down
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


"Charles Graft" <chasgraft@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3AE5C2C5.51412897@aol.com...
>      According to one report, there have been 24 planes shot down under
> this program.  Other reports have indicated that the plane already had
> clearance to land at a very nearby airport.
>
>      But I can see no reason to justify shooting down a small civilian
> plane or civilian transport unless it is doing something dangerous to
> others like diving on the white house.
>
>      There is some major perspective missing on this.

Well, if it could escape, and is committing a major felony, then the
precedent exists in other endeavors. We allow firing on escaping felons to
prevent their escape.

Now, we might agree that smuggling isn't the sort of crime for which this
should be done, and we certainly agree that "illegal drugs" shouldn't be
illegal in the first place. But many people strongly disagree with us.

This is, at least partly, why "There is some major perspective missing on
this." The people of this country have a different perspective on this
overall than you or I. To some degree, if we don't understand their lack of
reaction, it is because _we_ lack _their_ perspective.

Filksinger





------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19011
From: John Paul Vrolyk <jp@vrolyk.org>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:13:35 -0400
Subject: Another HF addition.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

John Paul and Leslie Vrolyk are proud to announce the birth
of their first-born son, Jack Orion Vrolyk.

Jack was born at 7:38pm, on Monday, April 23, 2001.

He weighed in at 9lbs, 1oz, and was 20" long.

Both mother and baby are recovering well from the rather
traumatic experience.

More information, and some pictures, can be found at
young Jack's personal webpage:
        http://www.vrolyk.org/jack/

-- 
John Paul Vrolyk
http://www.vrolyk.org/jp/
jp@vrolyk.org

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19012
From: Dean White" <WhiteD@telepath.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 17:58:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Another HF addition.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Congratulations,
--
          Dean White
www.DeanWhite.net


"John Paul Vrolyk" <jp@vrolyk.org> wrote in message
news:3AE5FA8F.CD7A1285@vrolyk.org...
> John Paul and Leslie Vrolyk are proud to announce the birth
> of their first-born son, Jack Orion Vrolyk.
>
> Jack was born at 7:38pm, on Monday, April 23, 2001.
>
> He weighed in at 9lbs, 1oz, and was 20" long.
>
> Both mother and baby are recovering well from the rather
> traumatic experience.
>
> More information, and some pictures, can be found at
> young Jack's personal webpage:
>         http://www.vrolyk.org/jack/
>
> --
> John Paul Vrolyk
> http://www.vrolyk.org/jp/
> jp@vrolyk.org



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19013
From: ddavitt <ddavitt@netcom.ca>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 19:40:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Another HF addition.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum


Congratulations and welcome to the world Jack!

Jane



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19014
From: James Gifford <jgifford@rcsis.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:21:57 -0700
Subject: Re: Shoot Down
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Charles Graft wrote:
> But I can see no reason to justify shooting down a small civilian
> plane or civilian transport unless it is doing something dangerous to
> others like diving on the white house.
> 
> There is some major perspective missing on this.

Yeah, The One Good Thing about the War on (Some) Drugs:

  It makes the Vietnam War look moral.

-- 

| James Gifford - Nitrosyncretic Press - gifford@nitrosyncretic.com |
|   See http://www.nitrosyncretic.com for the Heinlein FAQ & more   |

------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19015
From: LORRITA  MORGAN" <lorrita-m@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:26:34 -0700
Subject: Re: Another HF addition.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

A"little" guy and a mighty hunter.  Keep him away from Amazons.<g>

Congrats to all.  Rest while you can.
--
Later,

`rita
Almost live from Finley, WA.
"John Paul Vrolyk" <jp@vrolyk.org> wrote in message
news:3AE5FA8F.CD7A1285@vrolyk.org...
> John Paul and Leslie Vrolyk are proud to announce the birth
> of their first-born son, Jack Orion Vrolyk.
>
> Jack was born at 7:38pm, on Monday, April 23, 2001.
>
> He weighed in at 9lbs, 1oz, and was 20" long.
>
> Both mother and baby are recovering well from the rather
> traumatic experience.
>
> More information, and some pictures, can be found at
> young Jack's personal webpage:
>         http://www.vrolyk.org/jack/
>
> --
> John Paul Vrolyk
> http://www.vrolyk.org/jp/
> jp@vrolyk.org
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19016
From: Robert Slater" <rslater215@home.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 21:07:55 -0700
Subject: Re: Computer Question: Networking
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Funny you should suggest that.  I picked up one on Ebay yesterday!
Thanks,
I'll pass on what I think of it.
Rob
"Anthony Alford" <anthony_alford@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ae42f7c.0@news.sff.net...
> Would using a router be an option for you?  Someone discussed this in the
> "E-mail Changing" thread in this group.  I bought one of the Linksys
routers
> and it was a piece of cake to use: pretty much zero installation.
>
> "Robert Slater" <rslater215@home.com> wrote in message
> news:3ae1b415.0@news.sff.net...
> > Folks,
> > SIFI Rob with a question on home networking.  I've got everything set up
> and
> > I've got all three computers able to interact with each other, but when
I
> > try to install Internet Connection Sharing it tells me my network is not
> > configured.  It says please install network hardware before installing
> ICS.
> > I'd like to share my cable modem.  Is it possible that my cable network
> has
> > somehow blocked this feature?
> > Any ideas would be great.  Thanks.
> > SIFI Rob
> >
> >
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19017
From: Charles Graft <chasgraft@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:32:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Shoot Down
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
From AOL 4/24/01   Fair use believed to apply.
<br>-------------------------------------------------
<br>WASHINGTON (AP) - The Senate Intelligence Committee chairman cast doubt
today on the future of what he called a ``very valuable'' anti-drug-trafficking
program in Peru that led to the downing of a plane carrying American missionaries,
which killed a woman and her daughter.  <b><u>``When you lose a young
woman and her child because of a lack of communication, I believe, among
other things, it's just too much,''</u></b> Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala.,
said after a secret briefing by CIA Director George Tenet.
<br>-------------------------------------------------
<br>      Imagine that.  Me agreeing that
much with a congresscritter.
<p>     I still want to know who authorized the US's
participation in this program.  But I would not be surprised to learn
that we initiated the program and talked Peru into going along.
<p>      But it was only a matter of time.
<p>     My guess here is that they thought a long successful
record here would be an excuse to expand the program to our own borders.
<p>--
<br><<Big Charlie>>
<p>"Computers make it easier to do a lot of things, but most of the things
they make it easier to do don't need to be done."  -- Andy Rooney
<br> </html>


------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19018
From: Charles Graft <chasgraft@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:44:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Shoot Down
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

Filksinger wrote:

> "Charles Graft" <chasgraft@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:3AE5C2C5.51412897@aol.com...
> >      There is some major perspective missing on this.
>
> Well, if it could escape, and is committing a major felony, then the
> precedent exists in other endeavors. We allow firing on escaping felons to
> prevent their escape.
>
> Now, we might agree that smuggling isn't the sort of crime for which this
> should be done, and we certainly agree that "illegal drugs" shouldn't be
> illegal in the first place. But many people strongly disagree with us.
>
> This is, at least partly, why "There is some major perspective missing on
> this." The people of this country have a different perspective on this
> overall than you or I. To some degree, if we don't understand their lack of
> reaction, it is because _we_ lack _their_ perspective.
>
> Filksinger

Filksinger--

     I understand their perspective but I disagree with it 100% and I think
they are fanatics of the level of the witchhunters in Europe in the middle
ages.

     They will tell you that illegal drug selling is the worst crime there is.
Right.  A non-violent crime* consisting of selling a product to a buyer willing
to give much cash and (in come cases) take much risk to buy it?  Worse than
murder, rape, or kidnapping?  A weird perspective.

     If you have a strong stomach, check out "Mark of the Devil" available on
DVD.


* I am referring to the actual transaction between the retail buyer and retail
seller.  The violence involved in the trade as a whole is another subject and
would disappear should the product be legalized.

--
<<Big Charlie>>

"Computers make it easier to do a lot of things, but most of the things they
make it easier to do don't need to be done."  -- Andy Rooney



------------------------------------------------------------
Article 19019
From: Charles Graft <chasgraft@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:46:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Another HF addition.
Newsgroups: sff.discuss.heinlein-forum

John Paul and especially Les--
     And my hearty congratulations.
--
<<Big Charlie>>

"Computers make it easier to do a lot of things, but most of the things
they make it easier to do don't need to be done."  -- Andy Rooney



------------------------------------------------------------

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